Hello to all,
I am sure everyone has seen the influx of transgenderism stories in the news today. Whether it's online (a lot on yahoo),TV, chatting with a friend or maybe you know someone that is a trans, i am sure almost everyone has encountered it in someway or another. Putting all feelings and opinions aside, looking at this mental disorder (as it's currently classified) why should someone accept or deny this disorder? Again, please keep feelings aside and let's stick to science and other facts. I am strictly talking about the people that are born 100% biologically male or female, not the less than 1% that are born with klinefelter syndrome ( i hope i spelled that right).
If you are against it, why?
If you are for it, why?
Why should we ignore science in this case?
Why is science being ignored in order to please people's feelings?
I have a lot more questions but i am sure you guys get the idea and know where this is going.
Again, lets please keep this conversation factual. Lets please use rational and logic when trying to make a point.
I will start by voicing my opinion on this matter.
Personally, i believe this is a mental disorder due to the fact that how can a man say he feels like a woman when he's spent his entire life as a man? How can someone say that is a man that is on average stronger, taller, treated like man his whole life all of a sudden say they are a woman? How can someone that is 100% biologically a male, logically say they are female? How can someone that never had their period feel female? The list goes on and on but you get the idea.
While i do NOT preach hate or violence towards the transgender community, i also do NOT believe we are heading in the right direction by accommodating this mental disorder by simply accepting it, denying the most basic levels of biology simply due to the fact that we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Edit : To change klinefelter disease to klinefelter syndrome
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Have popcorn ready.
Well there you have it..."you believe". Then believe it. Never mind the evidence, just keep on believing. Perhaps we can label your belief as a "mental disorder" and have you treated.
Get it? It is nobody else's business. I can put my collar on backwards, grab a pulpit and tell lies about an imagined god, and that's ok in your book. I can even ask for donations, stir up hate, advocate public stoning, while claiming to hear or read the words of my sky fairy, and that is perfectly normal. But if I should dress up in the clothes I feel comfortable in, behave peacefully in the way I may feel comfortable, and, according to you I have mental disorder?
Just mind your own fucking business. Its not compulsory to be trans or gay or stupid (although I wonder about the last when I read posts like yours) Let people live the way they want and feel best. It is not for you to judge.
Gender nonconformity is not considered a mental disorder in the current DSM.
Gender nonconformity is not the same as Gender Dysphoria. Page 458 in the DSM describes the difference.
Communities all over the world and all through history have accommodated transgender issues with either compassion or revulsion...suddenly we are veering off in the wrong direction? We are currently just dealing with it at the time.
I do not believe gender is a black/white, on/ off issue. Genetics is too messy to be so neat.
Wheres the science you mention proving this issue is solely a mental disorder?
@searchingfortruth: Mostly it is none of your fucking business. If someone is harming you , that is different. But if it simply makes you uncomfortable.....shut up and let others lead their own lives.
lol its funny people come here and start getting all pissed off. Typical response from people that have 0 to add. This section is called the Debate room, while i am not here to debate rather, i was looking for civilized conversation. As i have learned from my time here that 90% of people are here to troll and cuss anyone out that sees the world differently then they do. Luckily, from my time here i have realized that the remaining 10% are actually worth talking to which make the 90% of trolls worth skimming through and ignoring. I will just keep waiting for the other 10% to show up.
If you think you have been harmed by the transgender community then file your complaint. In my world view, no harm no foul. Leave other people alone and mind your own business! If you want to be a snowflake then melt away!
I made my comment and asked a question without malice and I get relegated to "uncivilised troll".
You waste peoples time with your superior pretense.
@Nyarlathotep
"Gender nonconformity is not considered a mental disorder in the current DSM."
Yes, in the current DSM. Did they ever mention why it was removed? What scientific research, evidence or whatever was used to declassify it as a mental disorder?
What scientific evidence did they offer why it was a disorder? I have worked in psychiatrics as an RN. Being transgender is not a reason to be considered sick.
"I have worked in psychiatrics as an RN. Being transgender is not a reason to be considered sick."
That's a poor method of determining who is "sick." Psychiatric hospitals or departments mainly work with very serious mental illnesses, some which could result in the person hurting themselves or others. That's like determining who is and isn't sick by who goes into the emergency department. Obviously, plenty of conditions don't require going to the emergency department.
@searchingfortruth Isn't the null hypothesis here that a given trait is not a disorder until it has been demonstrated to be one? The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that being transgender is disordered.
You're an ignorant Troll, do your own fucking research. You can't make a claim contrary to scientific opinion then insist people prove your ignorant bigotry wrong.
No one care what you think here because it's irrelevant to the facts. There are people suffering from gender dysphoria, you on the other hand want to prolong that suffering because you're a petty frightened narrow minded bigot.
It's a no brainer...tailor made for you really...
"Yes, in the current DSM. Did they ever mention why it was removed? What scientific research, evidence or whatever was used to declassify it as a mental disorder?"
So you claimed it was a mental disorder when you knew it was not classified as one? Isn't lying breaking one the ten commandments?
@Nyarlathotep
It's currently called Gender Dysphoria, you will find a plethora of links that classify this as a disorder. It seems there is a lot of word play around this issue. Some articles and studies say its a disorder while others do not.
@sft: I agree it was considered a disorder. I asked for evidence that it is a disease!
Gender Dysphoria is not a reference to being transgender. It is a reference to distress a person experiences because of their assigned gender at birth.
So a transgender person may or may not experience Gender Dysphoria (hence why it is not a description of transgenders, as you claimed).
In a way it is similar to PTSD. Some soldiers have PTSD, but being a soldier does not mean you have PTSD. Being transgender does not mean you have Gender Dysphoria.
"So a transgender person may or may not experience Gender Dysphoria"
You seem to have this backwards. For one, gender dysphoria and transgender are essentially synonymous terms. If there is any difference, it has more to do with gender dysphoria being a clinical diagnosis, and transgender being a personal identity. There's no such thing as a transgender person who may not experience gender dysphoria, unless they're intentionally lying. However, perhaps there is some rare situation in which someone with gender dysphoria does not consider themselves transgender.
"There's no such thing as a transgender person who may not experience gender dysphoria, "
Surely a transgender person who has successfully completed gender reassignment surgery and treatment may not still suffer dysphoria? Since transgender is defined as denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex, they would still be transgender, but may no longer experience gender dysphoria.
Yes and no. People with gender dysphoria (transgender) have a problem which can be solved in one of two ways: either their cognitive identity is made to match their biological sex, or their biological sex is made to emulate their cognitive identity. The distress aspect of gender dysphoria is obviously gone once either route is taken, but that's like saying a person taking depression medication doesn't have depression. Yes, they're not depressed, but they still have depression. Transgender people who undergo sex reassignment surgery and become transsexuals, are still experiencing a disconnect between their genetic sex assigned at birth, and their cognitive identity, they're just coping with it through surgeries that change their physical appearance.
Gender dysphoria is a mental condition, not a symptom. It seems as if you're viewing more like a symptom; distress is a symptom of gender dysphoria.
@ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ
“a person taking depression medication doesn't have depression. Yes, they're not depressed, but they still have depression.”
This is not quite analogous.
With some transgender persons, it is more about being affirmed in their gender. No medication would be required for some of them if they were simply affirmed in their gender. The only reason these people have gender dysphoria is because of other people, not themselves. Other people are the cause of their distress.
But being affirmed in your gender is pretty hard to do in a world that says you have to be male to be a man, and you have to be female to be a woman. That’s why some of us take hormones/surgeries.
Hmm I don't agree. We definitely live in a social enviornment in which the thoughts and actions of other people affect us personally. Males who behave feminine will experience pressure from society to conform to their gender. But gender dysphoria is a heavily internalized dilemma; it has to do with how you view yourself internally and it's discrepancy with what you see in the mirror.
Gender dysphoria is not all the same. There is physical dysphoria and there is social dysphoria. Trans people are not all alike, and some have more of one than the other.
I do not have much physical dysphoria. Sure, I wish I was born a certain sex, but I don't NEED it.
I do have a lot of social dysphoria. I have a gender and I NEED people to affirm my gender because gender is a social thing... without their affirmation, I'm all alone.
Right, but I guess if you don't mind clarifying: Do you identify as the opposite gender, or simply behave in ways that are typical of the opposite gender?
hey john..
i was just curious...why are you so into this kind of topic?
whats up with the transgender thing?
you even sniff on our atheist hub (the sanctuary)...whats wrong bruh? come on tell us..
we're all open minded...right guys??
in fact its easy for you to open up cause you're a psychologist.
(edited)
I identify as the opposite gender.
But I had to face facts; no one would think I'm my gender if I don't look like the sex that is associated with the gender.
So I took hormones. I like the secondary sex characteristics that have grown. But again, I didn't need them. Just like I don't need tan skin and straight hair, though I've wish for them.
V.S.
@Searching for Truth:
I was wondering what any of this has to do with atheism, but then you said denying the most basic levels of biology
Last time I checked, foreskins and clitorises were manifestations of the "most basic levels of biology", yet two of the world's major religions insist on slicing them off infants to please their imaginary friends.
Rational thought is also an emergent quality of the "most basic levels of biology", but religious people somehow suppress it and turn themselves into birdbrains.
So who are you to judge who's denying biology?
On a biological level I think transgenderism is anti-natal which would seem unnatural and anti-evolutionary ...logically speaking.
Pages