I write this because, when i see some people in France, commenting about the migratory policies enacted in Europe, it makes me sick. Some are openly praising politicians like Viktor Orban, from Hungary.
Any insights that would make me more serene?
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Here's a clip by British comedian Stewart Lee. He's parodying anti-immigration politician Paul Nuttall of UKIP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw9qN6_eXOg
We're all immigrants.
It is basically Humanity's history.
Cannot have "xenophobia." There are no aliens on planet Earth.
rmfr
@arakish: There are no aliens on planet Earth.
That's what the government wants you to believe. Do you really think Donald Trump, Xi Jinping, Vlad Putin, and Kim Jong Un are from this planet?
@ Algebe
Hmm... Interesting point. Let me think on this.
rmfr
And Sylvain Duriff, the Cosmic Christ lol
I think we are confusing Xenophobia with Xenuphobia. I have no issues at all with the USA strengthening its borders and deporting illegal aliens. Seriously folks, every country in the world does this, The USA is probably the only country in the world where an illegal alien can be convicted of rape, do his jail time and then be released back onto the streets in America. If I get in a fist fight with a Korean in Korea and I am the aggressor, I can lose my job, be blackballed by immigration (They will not renew my contract.) and forced to leave the country. (Unofficial deportation.) If my work visa expires, within a week the police will come knocking at my door. (Official deportation). There is nothing at all wrong with kicking illegal immigrants out of the country. I don't care if they have lived in America for 100 years. They are breaking the law. I don't care if they have family in America. They are breaking the law. They can exit the country and apply to enter legally. I have no problem with local police checking immigration status..... as long as a crime has been committed. I would strongly object to any civil rights being violated even for illegal immigrants. WE USED TO BE A NATION OF LAWS. Today I wonder about that. I do not consider strong immigration policies Xenophobic. When people from other countries come to America they are expected to follow the laws of the land (INCLUDING THE IMMIGRATION LAWS),
@Cognostic: What's Xenuphobia?
Until World War I most countries had no immigration policies. You could just get off the boat and settle down. As in many Western countries, US immigration policy has its roots in racism, specifically the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Then in 1924 you got the National Origins Act, which set quotas for countries of origin with the aim of excluding "inferior" races (the sorts of people targeted by Hitler's final solution). I'm not saying the US is worse or better than any other country in this regard. New Zealand, for example, allowed Chinese men but not women to enter the country. Then Chinese men were beaten up for being gay because they were always with other men.
Of course migrants should obey the law like everyone else, but they should also be protected by it, too.
Every country has benefited from migrants. Migrants bring skills, culture, connections. They also add demand. If we could just get them to leave their stupid bloody religions at home. So we have to ask what are immigration laws protecting us against?
Well, sometimes migrants don't want to integrate or assimilate. Some want to build their own parallel societies and some even want to turn the host country into something different. But a lot of them are pretty cool.
@talynEarth03: Well, sometimes migrants don't want to integrate or assimilate.
That's true. It's human nature to cluster when you're afraid or homesick or don't speak the language.
But isn't the urge to transform the host society generally an Islam thing these days? In the UK, for example, there've been attempts to set up parallel legal systems based on Shariah.
Finally, Islam enters the discussion. I've read things on these systems in the UK. I have not seen this kind of thing in France. I think it is due to our "agressive" secularity called "laicité". In a poll conducted by the Institut Montaigne, 28% of french muslims are rigorists and say charia is more important than the laws of the Republic. This poll was criticized by some people for lack of methodology.
A new report, by the same institute has been released a few days ago.
Of course, you can have immigration policies based on facts. My OP was more about immigrants's characterization in the minds of xenophobic "natives".
@talynEarth03: My OP was more about immigrants' characterization in the minds of xenophobic "natives".
My favorite image of a xenophobic "native" was a blonde woman with a strong Dutch accent ranting on TV about keeping New Zealand for New Zealanders. What she meant of course was keep New Zealand white by shutting out Asians. I don't think her definition of New Zealanders included the indigenous Maori. Xenophobes tend to be very irony-challenged.
I have no problem with deporting illegal aliens. Or strengthening USA borders. It just needs to be done in a useful and economical way that is also as humane as reasonably possible.
First an easy one:
Putting up giant new walls on the Mexico/US border is both highly ineffective, very un-economical, and highly damaging to the environment, (especially for land based migratory animals.) It is also very inhumane for how ineffective it is. Strengthening of our borders should instead be done by proactive work. I will skip on examples of proactive tactics unless some wants me to add some, for the sake of brevity.
Deporting illegal aliens is harder. First we have to find them. People that do not wish to be found. How do you find illegal aliens in 3.8 million square miles among 100's of millions of citizens? The answer is, you can't really. Not if the person is smart about it and has support. Again, proactive work is the only reasonable solution to that problem.
In summary: I support USA strengthening borders and deporting illegal aliens. But I definitely do NOT support some of the ways the US goes about it.
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I agree. The laws of the land prevail. Those laws that protect us protect anyone on American Soil. Our police are not judge and jury or vigilantes. Their job is to enforce laws and without probable cause they have no business talking to or detaining and ID ing anyone.
@Cog Re: "Those laws that protect us protect anyone on American Soil. Our police are not judge and jury or vigilantes. Their job is to enforce laws and without probable cause they have no business talking to or detaining and ID ing anyone."
Very nicely said, Cog. Normally I do not get involved in the "political threads", as I generally have no interest in politics and such. I saw your remark, however, and for some reason felt it necessary to say a few words to back it up a bit, because what you said is so very true. Despite how I or any other law enforcement officer may or may not feel personally about illegal immigrants living among us, it IS absolutely the sworn duty of law enforcement officers to serve and protect any and all persons within their assigned areas. And whether we like it or not is irrelevant. Speaking from personal experience, unless I had a very good reason for doing so, I had zero right to simply walk up to a random person and I.D. them or interrogate them. At the VERY LEAST I had to have some type of reasonable suspicion that person was involved in some sort of illegal or suspicious activity. And if I encountered a person in distress or having some type of crime being committed against them, then it was protect first and ask questions later. Simple as that.
Interestingly enough, I have no doubt there were hundreds of illegals in and about several neighborhoods in which I worked. Matter of fact, I encountered many over the years. However, they actually were the least of my worries, as they generally caused the fewest problems. And many of the ones I did encounter from time to time were just trying to make a living and survive pretty much like everybody else out there. Anyway, point being, my personal approach to them during my time on patrol was basically to just treat them no differently than I treated anybody else I encountered. They screwed up, then they faced whatever action was appropriate for their particular offense. They needed assistance, I assisted them. They needed protection, I protected them. In my book, regardless of whether they were legal citizens or not, they were still human beings with basic human rights. However, just like any other profession in any other field, law enforcement is comprised of humans doing a difficult and a dangerous and a human job. And, sadly, there are those few who give the majority a bad name by taking their personal bigotries to work with them and allowing them to affect the job they do in a negative fashion.
Maybe my youthfulness is leading me to become obessed with politics.
I could not agree more. Most are scared to death of cops or breaking the law. They have a very good thing in America and do not want to lose it. These are the people that can slip through the cracks and not get noticed and frankly, good for them. I have been to the poor countries of the world. I know full well what these people sacrifice for their families. At the very same time, If they are caught crossing the border, they must be turned back. It's the law. If they are here and rob a store, rape someone, engage in any violent crime, it is time to go home.
I wish many of the police I see on YouTube had the same ethics. Sometime it is just insane what the cops are doing. If someone is "suspicious" for example and you want to "investigate them" you don't run up and question them. You sit back, watch them, wait for them to violate a law, and then you have their ass.
Talking to them, just warns them off and seems to generally get the officer in a bit of hot water. Let the preps hang themselves. And be 100% in the right when you make a move. Anyway, that's my $.02
@OP
Am I worried about xenophobia in the country I reside?
Yes. (I live in USA.)
I feel any reasonable person should always be worried about that..
I also think there are times people did not have enough xenophobia. Take the native americans in the American continents. "Other people" arrived, and pretty much wiped most of them out, and frequently kicked the surviving locals out of their own lands. A process that repeated time and time again all over the world during the age of western european colonialism.
I do think, especially U.S, citizens having xenophobia is highly misplaced, the US after all controls by far the most powerful military in the world. U.S people have little reason to fear "other" for the others have very little real threat (nuclear armageddon [MAD] notwithstanding.)
The frequent: xenophobia because of the fear of loss of quality decent paying jobs, I feel again the fear is completely misplaced. People should not fear other people, they should fear automation and computerization. As that has been quite destructive to many decent paying jobs that require repetitive work.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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@LogicFTW: A process that repeated time and time again all over the world during the age of western european colonialism.
It's happened everywhere throughout human history. All the old world countries, including the British, the Japanese, the Germans, and the Italians, are nations of invaders and immigrants. (The Romans believed they were descended from refugees who escaped after the fall of Troy.) And they all had gods who guided them to their new homes and gave them a manifest destiny.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
@Algebe
Agreed, I should of reworded to point out, I was talking about western european colonialism, in isolation, I mostly certainly agree that all through known human history people would expand outwards, and quite often the expansion would involve the replacement of the locals that were not able to repel the people expanding outwards from their place of origin.
I like the quote: "History doesn't repeat itself exactly, but it certainly rhymes." Always plenty to learn from accurate unbiased history.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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As much as humanity has moved across the globe, ain't we all immigrants by now?
rmfr