Bad medical advice

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Meepwned's picture
Bad medical advice

Anyone else notice all of the misinformed medical advice floating around?

I just finished watching a Youtube video related to this. Link: https://youtu.be/QiBpKuTrFrw

Chubbyemu doesn't upload often but his videos are top notch in quality.

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algebe's picture
I just watched the first

I just watched the first couple of minutes and recoiled in horror. A Japanese doctor once told me that young men called up to serve in the Japanese imperial army during WW2 used to drink large quantities of soy sauce in order to raise their blood pressure so they'd fail the medical. I can't imagine what it would do to an unfit middle-aged woman.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Holy shit that is insane.

Holy shit that is insane.

Also an interesting youtube channel!

Cognostic's picture
I wonder if people could die

I wonder if people could die by drinking too many cubes of woombat poop in their cola? Just sayin, I got all these cubes and don't know what to do with them. I wonder if they would enhance the flavor of this egg nog?

Didn't appear that the woman was wrapped real tight anyway. One more for the Darwin Awards.

Meepwned's picture
@Cog Yeah, except she

@Cog Yeah, except she survived. Her celiac disease manifested it's symptoms in psychosis, which did not aid her in discerning bad medical advice from good medical advice.

Cognostic's picture
Ha ha ha ha ha ah ,,,,,

Ha ha ha ha ha ah ,,,,, Psychosis people are funny!

horse's picture
People tend to believe in

People tend to believe in "ancient knowledge" as if healers in the old times had efficient ways to heal diseases.

Also, people sometimes rely on pseudo-science as if they were "more efficient" than "traditional medicine".

Recently, in Brazil, the government approved the following "alternative therapies" to be paid by the public national health system (SUS - Sistema Único de Saúde):

- apitherapie
- aromatherapie
- bio-energetica
- gezinsconstellatie
- chromotherapie
- geotherapie
- hypnotherapie
- handlegging
- ozonotherapie
- bloementherapie

That means you can ask for public money to undergo "chromotherapie" (WTF?).

There is also a war among homeopathy practitioners - which is recognized as "medicine" in Brazil as well. So far, there is no scientific evidence that homeopathy presents any reliable results.

Meepwned's picture
@Oten Hypnotherapy works, as

@Oten Hypnotherapy works, as it's supplementary only and does not replace actual medical treatment. It is indeed just the placebo effect, but it's mainly used for breaking bad habits, dealing with traumatic experiences, etc.

All of the others do not have scientific backing.

arakish's picture
Provided hypnosis works. I

Provided hypnosis works. I have had it tried on me several times. Never worked. I think it has to do with what me dad told me about why I could believe religions, "Your brain and mind works like a computer. If it is not logical or rational, it does not compute." Thus, I guess my mind views hypnosis as being illogical and irrational quackery.

The same affect can be achieved by teaching the person how to meditate.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
@Arakish Re: Hypnosis

@Arakish Re: Hypnosis

I've always been told it works only on those willing to be hypnotized. If that is true, then a hypnotist is gonna be shit-outta-luck with me. No freakin' way I would ever want another person in control of my mind. To say I would be resistant to it would be a gross understatement. *chuckle*

arakish's picture
@ Tin-Man

@ Tin-Man

I tried to be willing as the doctor said. However, I still think it also has a lot to with the way a person thinks. With me, if it is irrational and illogical, my mind just ain't going to accept it.

"No freakin' way I would ever want another person in control of my mind. To say I would be resistant to it would be a gross understatement."

Actually, from my understanding, they are only directing your mind. Not controlling it. The movies and urban legends about them actually controlling you are just that, urban myths, urban legends. They still cannot make you do something you would not do yourself, such as murder innocent person.

Virtually all licensed hynptherapists, as said, only direct your mind. And basically all they are doing is to help you get into a meditative state. That is why I said it is no different than teaching a person meditation.

Your stage hypnotists are just as fake as the other illusionists. The person they seemingly randomly choose from the audience, is actually a ringer.

However, I think in your case, it is impossible to hypnotize someone with gears, levers, and cogs for a brain. ;-P

rmfr

LogicFTW's picture
It is my understanding that

It is my understanding that there are people that are highly "susceptible" to hypnosis, but they still have to be willing to be hypnotized. It may be 1 in 100. But typically in a large audience there are people that can be hypnotized if they allow themselves to be. Does not have to all be ringers. I actually went to a show where one of the guest stars was a hypnotist he started with the usual "hold out both arms, 1 arm is holding something very heavy the other a very large helium balloon, etc etc etc..." The friend I went with had one of the strongest effects in the audience and she was invited up onto the stage, I knew she was not a ringer. (She is pretty deeply religiously though.. hmm...)

We are all vulnerable to suggestion to varying degrees. Anyone that tells you they are not are lying to themselves and do not understand how it works.

There is a reason why all the big succesful companies spend huge dollars on advertising, and a vast majority of all advertising do not use or rely on fact but instead suggestion think about any major ad, especially in a high dollar amount showing, say the NFL super bowl. Do you see any ad's that just sit there and lists the engineering facts about why their product is superior to their competitors? Of course not, you see budweiser ad's of attractive young people having a good time socializing, then simple unproven opinions like: "cool, refreshing, smooth." Do they bust out a chemistry set and talk about the viscosity of the beer and list a number? Of course not!

The emotional brain works faster than the logical brain and it is rather easily influenced, you can logically stop such influence at anytime, but a constant barrage of 5-30 second ads does "tire out" the logic brain. Advertisers also LOVE IT when you fall asleep to TV, or have a tv on in the background while doing other things, it is an uninterrupted gateway to emotional feelings to influence people. Take a few decent college classes in psychology, and apply what you learn to an add you see. I wrote a 12 page paper on a 20 second ad back in my college day, and I had to edit it down from at least twice that. I do get verbose, but there is actually that much psychology going on in a 20 second ad as well. All intent on getting people to buy their product. A form of weak, but mass hypnosis of sorts.
 
 

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Tin-Man's picture
@Logic

@Logic

I am an advertiser's worst nightmare... lol... Whenever I watch a commercial or see an ad I somewhat enjoy picking it to pieces. I love the psychology behind all of it. Same goes for movies. Very rare nowadays to watch a movie that does not have some sort of agenda hidden in it. Some are more blaringly obvious than others, of course, so it is the more subtle ones I enjoy detecting. Still doesn't keep me from enjoying the movie, though. *grin*

One thing I learned from being on patrol all those years is that it is fascinating how easy it can be to manipulate most people just by using very subtle mannerisms/movements and/or voice inflections/tones. Came in handy quite often... *chuckle*... While I am happy to be away from all of that now, I have to admit I do miss it sometimes... *far away reflective look*...

(Edited to correct a couple of words.)

LogicFTW's picture
@Tin-Man

@Tin-Man
I am much the same as you when it comes to tv ads and watching movies.

I almost have to "force" my logic brain off for most movies, especially disney/marvel movies, to be able to enjoy them. But sometimes it can be fun to logically analyze the long movies, or a particular ad that is not immediately obvious.

Learning visual cues that one can control for themselves, it is scary how just a few basics are at manipulating people. Helpful to learn them so one can defend themselves from them.

Cognostic's picture
Hypnosis DOES NOT WORK. The

Hypnosis DOES NOT WORK. The client works. The more a client believes in Woo Woo, the more likely hypnosis is to work. Jay Haley, a communication theorist, has a great book on the topic. I think it is "Pragmatics of Human Communication." A hypnotist is talented in something called "Double Bind Communication." He gives the subject dual messages, "Your hands are glued together. Try to pull them apart and you can't." On the overt level you hear the message. On the covert, behavioral, level the hypnotist is telling you that you can not pull them apart. If you do, the session will be over. You must go along with me. As far as relaxing and remembering goes, hypnosis is nothing but guided imagery. (Theoretically the hypnotist should not be suggesting images as they "lead" the client. Still most of them do.) Courts are split on allowing evidence taken under hypnosis. There are many issues to consider.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7737764

Anyone who sat quietly and attempted to remember their life could accomplish the very same thing that goes on in any hypnotic session. NOTHING SPECIAL HERE BUT WOO WOO.

Meepwned's picture
LogicFTW is the closest to

LogicFTW is the closest to the truth. Hypnosis is my thing. I'm a certified hypnotherapist.

@arakish People's brains work differently. The majority can relax and enter trance/meditative state. The rest can enter trance too, but not by relaxation. Those people need to have their conscious mind distracted. An example would be having them count backwards from 100.

Hypnosis is not mind control. It's simply bypassing the conscious part of the mind, the part that likes to reject new ideas, and talking directly to the subconscious. The subconscious is like a 5 year old controlling a super computer. It can do amazing things, but it is pretty immature. It also will not do anything that violates your deeply held morals or anything that would cause harm to you. The only exceptions are people that have mental illnesses, as they enter trance very easily, but quickly react badly or can be convinced to do alot of harm. As a rule, I do not hypnotize anyone that has a mental illness, that means you rat spit.

arakish's picture
I knew I was not remembering

I knew I was not remembering it entirely correctly. I just know for some reason I could never be hypnotized. However, I can enter a very deep meditative state. I use meditation mostly for dealing with the nightmares I still suffer from time to time. However, I still think me dad's analogy to mind being like a computer is still spot on. When someone says something, I take it literally. And if ain't logical or rational, it does not compute. And another reason why most things are not funny to me, or I don't see the humor right away.

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
It's simply bypassing the

It's simply bypassing the conscious part of the mind, the part that likes to reject new ideas, and talking directly to the subconscious. (bullshit!!) This is Hypnosis psychobabble and you can learn it and get a certificate too in just 7 days. NO MEDICAL DEGREE. NO THERAPY LICENSE. (7 DAYS) and about (1000 dollars.)
ANYONE SMELL SCAM HERE?
https://www.mcchtraining.co.uk/hypnotherapy-training/

There are no qualifications for a hypnotherapist - NONE - anyone can do it without a certification.
https://www.ucas.com/ucas/after-gcses/find-career-ideas/explore-jobs/job...

There is no "subconscious mind/" There is a mind. When you sit and remember things or motivations that you have not recalled or thought about before the WOO WOO doctors call it 'SUBCONSCIOUS." The idea of the "subconscious" originated as a psychological theory and it is a useful term when therapists discuss things with one another. In its popularized form it is COMPLETELY USELESS.

A TALENTED HYPNOTIST IS A MASTER AT GETTING A CLIENT TO PLAY ALONG WHILE ALSO DENYING THAT HE OR SHE IS PLAYING ALONG.

There are about 37 ways to put a person into a trance state Ericksonian Hypnotherapy invented all of them. The person doing the hypnosis has no power at all over a client unless the client is already severely emotionally disturbed. (Suggesting to a mass murderer that he should murder someone and convincing him to do so would not be difficult, But no therapist would need hypnosis to accomplish such a feat either. )

OKAY - THE GOOD NEWS
Hypnosis works very will with phobias or stress. It is useful for getting people to relax. It has some success with additions. It works with stress by having a person relax and in the relaxed state have them imagine the thing that stresses them. In Behaviorism this is called "Successive Approximation." The hypnotist can work entirely cognitively while a behaviorist might use relaxation and visual aids as well. (A behaviorist might use a toy spider and then a real spider for a client whose fear was spiders.) A hypnotist would have the client imagine bigger and bigger spiders getting closer and closer. The techniques are basically the same. As the client relaxes the stressor is introduced, This is the most popular technique for dealing with fears and phobias.

To solidify the change something like REBT is generally used.

Cognostic's picture
You hypnotize yourself a

You hypnotize yourself a hundred times a day. Hop in your car and drive from point "A" to point "B" without remembering the trip. Watch a movie and fall into that dazed sleep state where you can hear the TV echoing vaguely in the background. Have a triggered moment of clarity when something reminds you of someone someone special or a special event. Go to an art museum and get lost as you gaze into a picture. Listen to your favorite piece of music and feel it moving through your body. Lay on a large rock at night and watch the stars, feel the earth's rotation. Be the first person to paddle out into the early morning swells as the sunlight begins to reflect off the ocean. Be completely empty minded in a fight, relaxed but responsive. These are all hypnotic states or as Milton Erickson called them (Trans States). They are common, normal, and anyone can use them by merely knowing they are there and paying attention.

Milton Erickson talks about the "Unconscious Mind" because he is a psychiatrist. A medical doctor trained in psychiatry. A medical specialty dedicated to the treatment of mental disorders. This was the field he was trained in. This is Freudian Psychoanalysis. Most doctors today who go into psychology are trained in this and Behaviorism for 2 years. Psychologists train in psychology for up to 8 years and use many other theories and techniques to facilitate change including hypnosis. BUT THERE IS NO WOO WOO IN HYPNOSIS. No subconscious mind. No altered states. No therapist in control. It is very very NORMAL..

Cognostic's picture
WOW! Sore spot with me.

WOW! Sore spot with me. I have seen so many unprofessional Woo Woo hypnotists who thought they were the shit that I want to vomit. NO MYSTERY HERE! NONE!

Here is what I know. Each psychological theory is a magical kingdom. You enter the kingdom and you use the words in that kingdom. The words only have meaning in the kingdom. That's why when the general public begins using them, they are generally used incorrectly, They are used with smatterings of Woo Woo and misunderstanding.

Meepwned's picture
@Cog I admitted to everything

@Cog I admitted to everything you said but in far less words.

"It is indeed just the placebo effect, but it's mainly used for breaking bad habits, dealing with traumatic experiences, etc."

I in no way intended to say that there was an actual subconscious mind, it is simply a useful analogy. It works well on the religious and alleviates their fear of "mind control"

Yes, Hypnotherapy is unregulated. I didn't even need to be certified to open up a Hypnotherapy business.

I used to use the woo that is woven in because it made the job easier. I actually hate that part of it, which is why after getting certified, I stopped doing hypnosis on others.

During my training, I received some interesting advice. "Do not study psychology, neurology, or related fields. Studying those things will make you less effective.

My understanding of it was that it was an admittal. Admission that it was mostly woo and educating yourself will make you not believe. In turn, your clients will pick up on your body language, which will convey your lack of genuine belief.

Cognostic's picture
And the intelligent

And the intelligent Hypnotists, don't want to be fortune tellers or woo woo doctors! Yes, it has its place for some issues, the way it is sold to the public is Bullshit. Congratulations for not drinking the Kool Aid. So many people get into this crap and become masters of Woo. Clinicians as well as their clients. Hypnotism can be useful however, it is not useful for the reasons generally given for it being useful. These are generally inane justifications that are not much different than the arguments for the existence of God.

3 Points to Meepwned for efforts in understanding and intelligence.

Sky Pilot's picture
Did Paul hypnotize people

Did Paul hypnotize people into beliving in the Jesus character and that he was crucified for their sins?

Paul accused the people in Galatia of being idiots and for letting someone hypnotize them into not believing in his story of the Jesus character having been crucified for their sins.

Galatians 2:21 (CEV) = "You stupid Galatians! I told you exactly how Jesus Christ was nailed to a cross. Has someone now put an evil spell on you?"

Galatians 2:21 (HCSB) = "You foolish Galatians! Who has hypnotized you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified?"

So was Paul the original hypnotizer?

Jesus was supposedly crucified in Jerusalem. Paul travels over 700 miles to central Turkey and tells the locals that a Jew had been crucified in faraway Jerusalem for their sins. They believe him. Later on they get to thinking about it and realized that maybe Paul was just BSing them. Paul shows up again and berates the locals for wising up and starts insulting them because they now doubt his story.

So maybe Paul just a master hypnotizer who was just selling a fake story. After all, he had no proof that his story was true.

Cognostic's picture
Church services is actually

Church services is actually another good example of hypnosis in action as well as "group think," "Emotional manipulation," and the "pressure of the crowd." How guilty do you feel not dropping a buck in that collection plate as it passes you by?

Sky Pilot's picture
Meepwned,

Meepwned,

Very informative video, thanks for sharing.

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