What goes on inside your brain when.......

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Seek3R's picture
What goes on inside your brain when.......

(PLEASE, I'M VERY SORRY FOR THE F WORDS IN THIS TOPIC, I CAN'T HELP IT, THEY NEED TO BE THERE FOR THE EMPHASIS SO THOSE WHO ARE SENSITIVE TO THAT WORD, PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS TOPIC)

Hi guys,

As you may know me, I'm someone who left religion because it was threatening my life. I became an atheist while knowing nothing about atheism. My very first atheist friend was made when I randomly entered a chat room somewhere and asked a question, "Any atheists here?". Someone said yes. That's how my friendship began with the guy whom I'm very inspired of today.

Anyways, why I'm inspired of this guy is simply because he gives no fucking FUCKS about any fucking religion in this fucking world.

I don't understand how. He's such a chill guy that even if I try to ask him how do u do that, he just says it doesn't fucking matter to me what the religion does or claim becuz its irrational. To be honest, some things can APPEAR rational becuz they are sugarcoated by the fuckers of religion. Every single story is sugarcoated. So how does this guy ignore such a story?

For me, an atheist is someone who should not give a fuck about religion because he does not believe in religion and its gods. So if he does not believe in religion, it means that he does not believe in anything that falls under the umbrella of that particular religion and all the other religions.

I have some questions for you fellow atheists. The reason behind these questions is that I want to understand what goes on inside your brain when something similar to my questions comes into your life and how you deal with it.

Q1) A religion claims to have a miraculous event happened in the life of its messenger or prophet e.g. the splitting of moon by Muhammad
Q2) A religion claims to have a miraculous person e.g. a prophet like Jesus who could revive the dead
Q3) A religion claims to have miracles that are associated both with itself and its prophet/messenger e.g. the killing of a giant (Goliath) in a single shot

I'm assuming your brain works in either of the following ways. If yes, please choose which option is it and if none of it is the right answer then please tell me what is your approach towards this.

1) That claim/miracle/miraculous person is fake. That is not what the true story would be. Even if I don't know it, rationality can speak on my behalf and confess that no such crap is possible.
2) That claim/miracle/miraculous person is well, interesting, but not true. I don't believe in it. However, I want to debunk it and find the true story behind it.
3) That claim/miracle/miraculous person can do whatever the fuck they wanna do. I don't give a fuck whether the split the moon or split the jupiter, I do not give a fuck about religion because I'm a fucking atheist. Keep doing the miracles, I don't care to know what happened because neither do I believe nor do I give a shit!
4) 90% of this X religion is fucking false. So even if this claim/miracle/miraculous person did exist, there must be another side of the story which is hidden from the world and buried deep down. However, I do not give a fuck about it because if so many things about this X religion are false, this will be false too so I am not going to waste my precious time on this utter bullshit claim. I, by default, know, that NOTHING can happen against the laws of nature. So keep talking!

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Nyarlathotep's picture
I'd just go with Sagan

I'd just go with Sagan/Laplace: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

JazzTheist's picture
I'd say the amount of fuck an

I'd say the amount of fuck an atheist gives about religion should be in proportion to the amount of fuck theists gives about religion.

In short, if theists give a fuck, then we give a fuck; if theists don't give a fuck, then we don't give a fuck.

Or to say it more plainly--we criticize religion when they try to shove religion down our throats.

Hope you find this useful lol.

CompelledUnbeliever's picture
I often hear that we are

I often hear that we are obsessed with God. No I'm am concerned that people who worship Gods do harm to others, because they live as if mythology was real. I'm am obsessed with what is real and not real as it has real affects on peoples lives.

algebe's picture
I start out by assigning the

I start out by assigning the alleged miracle (say the resurrection) a basic probability of about 1 in 10. Then I add on a couple of orders of magnitude to allow for the lack of mass media in the periods when these events supposedly took place. I add on a couple more because there were no reliable witnesses who didn't have a vested interest in the religion concerned. The subsequent adoption of the religion by a powerful ruler adds a couple more orders of magnitude, as does the use of terrorism (e.g., inquisitions) to enforce belief and suppress questioning. After that I add on one more order of magnitude for every piece of fake evidence, such as shrouds, nails, bits of wood.

All that gets us to around 10^100. Which is a lot bigger number than the odds that Xtian apologists pull out of their arses when talking about the probability of life arising spontaneously on the primeval Earth.

arakish's picture
Posted this elsewhere, but I

Posted this elsewhere, but I ain't gonna go find it. Thus, here it is...

Religious Logic for Miracles:
I, [insert name], am incapable of understanding how [insert phenomena] could have happened. Thus [chosen deity] must have performed a miracle.

That is how I view any “miracle.” In other words, it ain’t a miracle, they are just too stupid to understand that fact.

I have only one problem with miracles in any religious text. ANYONE can write anything as having been a miracle.

And this video abut Christianity's most staunch supporter: William Lane Craig: The Moral Monster.

rmfr

Sky Pilot's picture
Seek3R,

Seek3R,

The purpose of the miracles in the biblical fairy tale was to impress the surrounding people. The interesting thing about the biblical miracles is that none of the Israelites believed them.

Exodus 34:10 (NLT) = "The Lord replied, “Listen, I am making a covenant with you in the presence of all your people. I will perform miracles that have never been performed anywhere in all the earth or in any nation. And all the people around you will see the power of the Lord—the awesome power I will display for you."

JazzTheist's picture
What's more, those people

What's more, those people were being skeptical for fairly good reasons. Seriously, if God were omnipotent, why couldn't he teleport the Israelites to the promised land?

Grinseed's picture
Mr Squid I found your comment

Mr Squid I found your comment very useful.

"...the amount of fuck an atheist gives about religion should be in proportion to the amount of fuck theists gives about religion.".

This just about sums it up for me, except that where some atheists might concede, quite honestly, that they do not know everything and they are only 99.999% there are no gods or supernatural deities, I think is the wrong thing to do.
Yes, I know its a matter of rigidly applying truth, even if it hurts. However theists will consistently and persistently seize this confession of doubt and claim their omnipotent eternal god lives inside that .001% of doubt and that you really do believe in their god, you're just confused and hurt or plain too fucked up to admit it and it gives them hope and determination to keep endeavouring to save your very soul.
Any doubt, any concession is their meat.
And remember, they think god is there listening and judging them while they argue to save you from damnation, and no rationale, no reasoning, no evidence, nada, is going to change their mind about changing yours. Show any smidgeon of doubt and you strengthen their confidence that deep down you know they are right and god is real and you really want to go to heaven with them, don't you? lol.
Our only real tactic is to show unremitting confidence in that which makes us atheists - we don't think gods exist.

So sod it, no!
Seriously There Really Are No Gods Eternal.
Miracles just can not happen ever, because it would violate nature laws.
The dead do not come back to life, prayers are not 'answered' and this is the only life you get, but that certainly doesn't make life meaningless.
I hate being polite and having to argue extremely fine points when the theist is just angling for some advantage to establish your doubt and any hint of proof for their gods.
Christian apologetics in particular is the love child of Greek philosophy and Hebrew religion, and they have been honing their blades for more than 2,000 years but still that doesn't mean they're right.

And so what if this universe is the result of one enormous accident stretching laws of chance and huge numbers? The chemistry, physics and quantum mechanics has made it real, and that makes it all that more awesome.

Thanks Mr Squid, we have to give the theists fucking equal measure for measure, without hedging, that's what atheists should do.

Cheers, going back to more drinking for Tin's date of manufacture celebration.

JazzTheist's picture
Cheers! My pleasure Grinseed.

Cheers! My pleasure Grinseed. You've made a great point.

Reminds me of clip from one of Darkmatter 2525's videos:

''Atheist Johnny admits that he's not 100% certain that God doesn't exist. So, why does he remain so dismissive? He's so arrogant!

Christian Billy is 100% certain that God is real and Jesus is his savior. He couldn't possibly imagine being wrong about that. He's so humble!''

arakish's picture
I watched that one too. It

I watched that one too. It was great. Hilarious. Shouldn't have watched it though... Only a couple of days after my second surgery did not do the pain any good from the laughing. Now I truly understand the concept of "only hurts when I laugh" after two abdominal surgeries.

rmfr

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
I just laugh because it's

I just laugh because it's like ppl think testimony is equivalent to empirical evidence.

Seek3R's picture
Ummm, so far I've understood

Ummm, so far I've understood that all of you ask for an evidence for claim/miracle/miraculous person but you yourselves are not interested to find out about the story, right?

So, if someone tells you some BS, you will ask for evidence. That's it. You won't go home researching about the claim by yourself.

Am I getting it correct?

My friend is of another type though. He doesn't give a fuck about evidence either. He just doesn't care about religion at all. He's like a perfect atheist. He just tells me that the religious claims are irrational and stupid so he doesn't need evidence.

arakish's picture
"Am I getting it correct?"

"Am I getting it correct?"

For me, yep. If there ain't no evidence, then it never happened. Now some things I will accept on a person's word of honor. Such as, if I told you I had been hit by a car while I was bicycling once, you would probably believe that to be true. However, if I were to tell you a story similar to the O Milagre do Sol except it happened where I now live, would you believe that?

Hell. Even if you had video of such an occurrence, I would want a copy of the video so I could use my Linux/SGI workstation to decompile it to see if you had done any CGI.

So, yeah, without hard empirical evidence, I would just assume you had a brain fart.

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
@ He just tells me that the

@ He just tells me that the religious claims are irrational and stupid so he doesn't need evidence.

And he would be correct but quite possibly ignorant. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence." Hitchen's Razor. It is not the job of the non-believer to go home and search for evidence to prove or disprove the assertions made by theists. If you have actual evidence, present it. If not, why in the hell are you talking like an idiot?

Grinseed's picture
No, you arent geting it right

No, you arent geting it right. I can't answer for others but I was once practising christian. I have looked for evidence, explanations etc to explain it all and all I found was continuing urgings to keep believing and hoping in the face of incredulity. I continued to search for answers. I found circular arguments and explanations so convoluted they threatened to turn Occams razor into a blunt instrument.
Celsus complained christians insisted everyone should just give up reason in order to believe in Jesus and that was about 2000 years go. Its a strategy that makes as little sense now as then.
Evidence rather than anecdote and vague feel good emotions would be a start.

Cognostic's picture
@ Seek3R (Let's begin here.

@ Seek3R (Let's begin here....)
You said, "For me, an atheist is someone who should not give a fuck about religion because he does not believe in religion and its gods. So if he does not believe in religion, it means that he does not believe in anything that falls under the umbrella of that particular religion and all the other religions."

There are currently small children in India praying for the boys being pulled out of caves in Thailand. It is a sickening indoctrination of young minds. The children are being taught to sit on their asses and do nothing but talk to the sky and then pretend that they are good people because they pretended to help. Atheists do not give a fuck about religion., It is the fucking idiots that perpetuate religious bullshit that most of us dislike. It is the LIES/ It is the MAGICAL THINKING/ It it the HARM cause by religion.

Aug 2, I will go to the Philippines. This is a very religious country. In every small town the church is the biggest and most magnificent building in the town. An the homeless children sleep by the gates and in the doorways. And when Sunday comes, they give their pennies to the collection plate because the asshole up front keeps telling them that "faith" and "belief" is all they need. "God loves them and is only testing them. Their reward will come in heaven." FUCK THIS ASSHOLE!!!!!! He then drives his car home where his family sits down to a nice steak dinner. A fucking bullet to the head (metaphorical) is too fucking good for these assholes.

When Churches do engage in charity, they are only doing it to see a profit. They take pictures of the charity events to show people all the good they are doing and to get more donations. One bowl of rice is worth a million bucks if it is advertised the right way.

Finally - I want to rant about one of my pet peeves. Where to the churches get the bulk of their money? Not from daily donation from services. They get huge amounts of money from congregation members that die and leave money to the church in their wills. Priests can not wait to get to the bedsides of dying congregation members to wrap them in feelings of guilt and secure that final donation. It should be a crime for priests to visit the dying.

And we have not even gotten into Church and State separation issues. Wow! There are so many reasons to oppose religions and religious belief systems. The list really is endless......

1) That claim/miracle/miraculous person is fake. (I don't have to assume it is fake to ask for proof. Without proof, there is no sense in belief. The burden of proof falls on the person asserting some miracle is true. By definition a miracle, something that defies all natural laws and logic, is the least likely reason for anything.)

2) same....

3) same...

4) same....

Muashkis's picture
When faced with claims of

When faced with claims of obviously impossible miracles.

The steps I usually go over, not necessarily in the same order every time.
1) get annoyed by stoopidity of people
2) get a headache
3) get a glint of hope thinking that just maybe, some very rare phenomenon or something simply left unexplained might be misrepresented, without no ill intent
4) discard the idea and get another headache
5) ponder just how much of it exactly is plain old scamming and indoctrination
6) get an ever bigger headache
7) wish there was actually a divine entity out there, and it wiped out all the scammers instantly
8) scold myself for such unreasonable thoughts and malice
9) still curse the clearly visible malicious intent behind the original claims.
10) stop giving a fuck proceed to pet my beloved cat
11) rejoice upon the fact I had the decency of naming mine God, so I can exclaim "God, you're so kewt!" out aloud without feeling guilty of anything
12) get over the headache

Undeniably, the curiosity often wins over, and I feel inclined to either check how much of a BS claims they actually are, or simply delve deep into thoughts. Generally wondering, how to abuse people's minds in a way to show them how easily they are abused. Though not giving a single fuck is infinitely better. I have a pure no fucks ever giver atheist friend myself, and I occasionally envy his ability to simply discard all and any thoughts of the subject. Seems so much more peaceful than my inability to stop thinking about what worries me.

BigE4933's picture
It does not matter to me what

It does not matter to me what religion makes a particular claim. My answer is simple. A god was not involved in the thing claimed.
There are many things we can not understand in this world. That does not mean a god is doing those things.

Sapporo's picture
If an event is possible, I

If an event is possible, I don't see why it should be considered a miracle. And if an event is impossible...then it cannot happen. So how can someone claim to have done something impossible?

Tin-Man's picture
My wife is a Mod on another

My wife is a Mod on another debate site, and as a result I often get to hear about many of the discussions on that site. At breakfast this morning she was telling me about one such debate in which one of the participants made that same ol' song-and-dance theist claim about how most people become atheists because they "hate god". Naturally, I just had to laugh and shake my head at that. Of course, my wife proceeded to explain to that individual how absurd that statement was for obvious reasons. (Not that it did much good, apparently, because the individual who made the ridiculous statement simply "countered" with something just as ludicrous. Oh, well.) Anyway, my point being, that exchange got me to thinking about something that I felt compelled to share on here. Now, as much as I would like to claim what follows as my own idea, I am pretty sure I have heard it in some other form from some other source. (Probably even on this site at some point.) Nevertheless, I feel it is worth repeating and good food for thought.....

Consider children who believe in Santa Claus. The adults tell them about Santa at a very early age, and it is a fun way to explain to the kids where their presents come from on Christmas morning. Also, it is another tool in the belts of parents to help make the children behave up to a certain age in life. However, it is inevitable that the child will eventually become old enough to stop believing in the charade (assuming they were ever taught it in the first place). And, naturally, some kids figure it out sooner than others. Regardless, it is pretty much a given that no self-respecting or mentally stable teen or adult would ever still believe in Santa Claus or the elves or the flying reindeer. And that is exactly how it should be.

So, now let's look at religion and society/civilization. Thousands of years ago before the modern age of science and technology, Mankind was (for lack of a better term) highly ignorant of many aspects of nature and diseases and such. A bright flash of light that fills the sky followed by a deafening boom would have been terrifying, as there was no understanding or explanation to the cause. An individual going into convulsions and foaming at the mouth for no apparent reason would have been equally horrific and confusing. (Just a couple of examples.) Therefore, without any means or abilities to investigate or determine the cause of such events - PRESTO! - say hello to gods and spirits. "Ugh.... Loud boom from sky! Gods not happy today! We do dance to please them!" And, of course, the storm eventually passes, reinforcing the necessity for the dancing. (Never mind the storm would have passed by regardless.) Anyway, fast forward to today. As a society/civilization, we have finally grown up. Modern science, medical practices, and computer technology, along with our extensive studies of cosmology and quantum physics have gone above and beyond in advancing our knowledge of the world around us. Do we have ALL the answers yet? Certainly not. But think about how many things our younger CHILDREN know (even in grade school) that would have completely baffled or seemed like "magic" (or perhaps witchcraft) to our adult ancestors of just a couple of hundred years ago. And more and more amazing discoveries and breakthroughs are made almost daily now. I say again, society/civilization has grown up. Therefore, at what point will it finally shed the childish beliefs of religion?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
I just love finding out about

I just love finding out about stuff...especially historical claims.

It all started when I was sent to an English posh school in the jolly rural English Home Counties from Scotland. The second History lesson I attended was learning about the 'rebellions' of 1715 and 1745. Naturally I raised my hand and asked why the Scots were described as rebels when it was the English who had deposed the rightful heir (because the heirs presumptive were Catholic) and imposed a slobbering, drunken, German princeling who couldn't even speak English as their king..(As I had been taught in my Scottish school). Thus started my long trip of detentions, threatened expulsions etc. However it did kindle a fierce desire to find the 'truth' of things and never to accept the words of self satisfied, self appointed authority without rigorous examination and testing. And for the record my Scottish learning was mostly the correct version.

Cognostic's picture
The victors write the history

The victors write the history books. Sooooo True.

Muashkis's picture
The books written by victors

The books written by victors are the ones enforced as school curriculum. There are still other historical sources in existence, luckily, though hardly anyone ever bothers to look for them. Also, countries that suffered from oppressive rule, say, eastern Europe nations that were trampled by both the Nazis and the Soviets, generally know the difference between the 'truth' and propaganda. Very difficult history classes, but hell, I loved them.

Problem is when the enforced historical view mismatches other sources. People are slow to question the subjective nature of one side's story.

lighthearted athiest's picture
I am not sure if this helps

I am not sure if this helps but here are my thoughts:

Q1) A religion claims to have a miraculous event happened in the life of its messenger or prophet e.g. the splitting of moon by Muhammad

Q2) A religion claims to have a miraculous person e.g. a prophet like Jesus who could revive the dead
Q3) A religion claims to have miracles that are associated both with itself and its prophet/messenger e.g. the killing of a giant (Goliath) in a single shot

For all I'd reply "Is there any for empirical evidence of the event?" This has nothing to do with religion - just truth. When two Italian scientists claimed to have created a cold fusion reactor we all said the same thing, "Can we see it?"

I ask for evidence for any claim.

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