I was raised 100% Episcopalian. I tried. I went to church after church. As soon as we got involved in the vestry or the elders or whatever, we discovered the hypocrisy of the whole thing. Either they are trying to sell curing a long standing health problem after 30 minutes of praying or they are disallowing people going to communion because they may not believe exactly as the Missouri Senate Lutherans do. What!! Jesus was supposed to be this really accepting who supposedly communed with prostitutes and the dregs of society, but those who claim he was the messiah and follow him, can't even imagine the idea of drinking a sip of wine and eating a piece of bread with someone who doesn't buy the delusion. Seriously?! Why do we have this need to believe in something? It's all bullshit! When I see what people do in the name of religion, and I just think to myself, REALLY?? What is wrong with people. Use your brain!!
Of course, if I ever told my family I felt like this, I would never hear the end of it and my parents and my brother and his wife would be all up in my face trying to save me. I can't handle that! I don't want to be saved. Why does it make me a bad person?
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Hi Hitherhope and welcome :-)
Here's the good news. You don't have to believe the bullshit and you're not alone. None of the atheists in this forum believe it, either. They reckon around 13% of the world's population are atheists- that's a lot of people. And if you chuck in the 'nones' or 'no religions' - people who may still believe in god/Jesus but want nothing to do with any church in any way, shape or form- the percentage goes up way over a third of the world's population. The 'nones'/'no religions' are the fasting growing religion category in the Western world.
People believe the bullshit because they're born into societies which visibly believe the bullshit. There's churches on the corners and Christmas carols/Easter eggs in the supermarkets. Even if you never set foot in one of the churches, you can't avoid the Christmas carols/Easter eggs. You can't avoid learning society believes in god/Jesus. It's a given- like the Sun rises and gravity.
You clearly can't talk to your family about this, but you can talk to us. You don't say how old you are, but I'm guessing you're young and not independent of your family. There are other young people on the forum who totally get where you're coming from.
Again, welcome, and I hope you stick around.
I know what you mean....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAwAAQRjB5s
@Cog Re: Street fighter
Holy hell! I was laughing so hard my stomach hurts now. That was great! Thanks for the laugh!
Hey there, Hither. Glad to have you here.
For starters, not wanting to be saved and not believing in the "divine delusion" does not make you a bad person. It simply makes you a reasonable and critical-thinking individual. Nothing bad about that. Like Sushi said, I do not know your age or living situation, but if you are still living with your parents, try not to fret too much. If you believe they would react harshly to your lack of faith/belief should you tell them, then keep it to yourself for now until you can get out on your own. It may be incredibly frustrating, I know, but meanwhile you have a place here to talk with folks about it and to vent your frustrations. Also, you can learn many things from many people on here. We have a wide variety of minds with a wide range of education and experience. Take advantage of this time to expand your knowledge. Information is one of the greatest tools/weapons you can possess when dealing with "those of faith". Hope to see you around in some of the other threads.
Welcome Hither, look forward to your comments on some of the threads (except Tin Man's nonsense) we are a friendly bunch in the main and I think nearly everyone will respond to questions publicly or praivately, about their take on atheism and morality etc. So feel free to post.
My speciality is early christian writers, Tin Man is metal fatigue,creaking joints, and lubricants, Nyarlothep's science, Sheldon is the logic man, Jared is young, beautiful and frighteningly polymath, and so on...you have a very mixed crowd. So mine your resource.
@Old Man Re: "Tin Man is metal fatigue,creaking joints, and lubricants, "
Hey! Don't forget basket weaving!
Oh, by the way, Hither, be extra careful around Old Man when he's had a bit too much wine. He can get a little reckless on that tricycle of his.
Hither, OP: "Of course, if I ever told my family I felt like this, I would never hear the end of it and my parents and my brother and his wife would be all up in my face trying to save me. I can't handle that!"
So they wouldn't reject you? They sound as if they would react with deep concern and genuine angst, but don't they have a sense of humor? What if you confronted their sincerity and concern innocently with equally sincere scepticism and mild curiosity? What if their seriousness was gently confronted head-on and with no concern or embarrassment on your part?
I would keep asking them simple questions about Episcopalian dogma and creed, about which I know nothing. As an ex-RCatholic, I would ask..
So there's three persons in one god and one of these is the Holy Ghost?
Do you literally believe in transubstantiation?
Do you think the story of Adam and Eve is more than folklore?
Would you be an Episcopalian if you were raised in an orthodox Jewish household in Israel?
And so forth. I think you will find that different relatives of yours offer significantly different answers, although they may try to put up a united front. Eventually, they may see how ridiculous the whole thing is.
The natural reaction to this suggestion is that I don't know who you are dealing with, which is very true of course. However, to achieve something, a person must first imagine it. Why not let them try to persuade you without it bothering you? After all, according to most religionists, it is not only permissible to disbelieve in their god and to reject their religion it is important that the religious beliefs are sincerely held. I wonder how sincerely they hold their beliefs in front of someone who isn't agitated by non-belief.
Why not just say you're having serious doubts and keep asking the plainly ridiculous questions they must presumably consider extremely important?
I agree. There is no doubt that many have used religion as a tool to maintain control and harm others. But had religion had been there for them to wield against others, perhaps they would have failed at their oppressive attempts.
"I agree. There is no doubt that many have used religion as a tool to maintain control and harm others."
and don't forget greed....they know that when you insert religion into peoples mind..cash will come out of them...
money matters...
One thing I always found to be funny is that religions preach about the dreaded Illuminati wanting to control and enslave the human species when it is actually religions that are the ones trying to do this with their dreaded indoctrination procedures of mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism.
Hither,
Well Come!
Join the party of us godless heathens of the great Illuminati. ;P
Rant and rave all you wish, we all got your back.
As others are here more often than I am and I am fairly new, I know them well enough to know they will cover your back. My work can take away for up to a week at a time. Most often, I am only gone for three days, sometimes four. Thus, even I can be left behind with all the busy traffic these forums have.
Anyway, come join the party. As said, rant and rave all you want. At least here you can blow off some steam.
rmfr
It doesn't make you a bad person. Atheists on the whole are at least as moral as theists.
If someone has to believe in the promise of heaven or the threat of hell before they can view things like murder and rape as wrong then they're just a shitty human being.
Treat others with dignity, try to be fair, and don't tolerate bigotry or prejudice. You don't need a fictional deity or anything supernatural for that.
I'm an atheist and a secularist and a humanist. I can derive all my morality from that despite lies to the contrary from religious apologists like William Lane Craig.
One hundred thumbs up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kttVCbTrDLw