What is the religious connect with abortion? I looked, not hard, all I found was this:
Fetuses are not persons. Ex - 21:22-25.
What insane buybull bull, is triggering the theitard's?
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@ Dog
For a recipe for abortion try Numbers 5:25 through 5:29....God approved abortions by the priesthood.
@ Old man shouts . . .
That's not a recipe for abortion, it's a test for adultery. Hahahaha.
But it does lend some supporting evidence to the OP. Fetuses had little value.
@ NatjustNat
It is quite specific about the priest administering an abortifact to the woman if she is accused of infidelity (Highlights are mine)
Pretty much a godly blessed abortion.
Awesome OMS, thank you.
Yes---according to the mythology---god might be the most prolific abortion doctor of all time.
@Ny,
This is confusing. A non biblically initiated, religious pet project? What is the connect for religitards?
Well according to biblical Exodus myth, their deity killed every first born child in an entire country. Of course that is small coal compared to global genocidal flood, how many foetuses were destroyed in the Noah flood myth? So any religion that worships a deity that cruel and barbaric are adding a new level of hypocrisy when they condemn the termination of an insentient blastocyst.
Their argument ALWAYS resort to inaccurate, dishonest claims, and ridiculous hyperbole and rhetoric. Not once have I ever heard a sane rational scientifically accurate argument against abortion.
Good to know there seems to be a fight in this argument, that deflates any biblical presets, for me to shut up religious pro-lifers. Where TF did these theitards, get the idea there god is pro life? That's what I wan't to know. Is it our innate drive to survive? Because it does not seem to be in the buybull.
@ DoG
A cursory read of the bible will demonstrate that the christian/abrahamic god is anything but "pro life" with abortifact commands as above in Numbers and all the other passages about ripping babies from the womb, impaling children etc etc. Plus the old favorite torturing a new born to death because he had the "wrong" parents.
That god can only be described as the worlds greatest abortionist even post birth!
Yup, it certainly seems that way...but, why then, are the religious fanatically pro-life?
IMO, It hasn’t as much to do with religion as it does with control. And I wouldn’t ever call them ‘pro-life’ either....maybe ‘anti-choice’.
" I wouldn’t ever call them ‘pro-life’ either....maybe ‘anti-choice’."
This is precisely what I have vowed to use in place of their arrogant misnomer pro life, they are pro control and anti choice.
The proper context in which to frame the argument is that the religious anti choicers re telling others how they must live, whereas the pro choicers are not telling anyone what to do. No one has to have an abortion.
@doG: Look a bit harder and you will find ---- Not only is abortion practiced in the Bible but Priests were the ones performing the abortions and if a woman was found to be pregnant, she was put to death. Any husband could drag his wife before a priest and have her tested for infidelity.
Numbers 5:11-31
When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Read the full text here. (Abortion is a Christian way of life.)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5%3A11-31&version=NIV
Thanks uncle cog.
Also Hos 9:10-16 & Isa 13:18. This dude gets pissed...needs some anger management
.
WOMEN ARE PROPERTY AND HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THEIR OWN BODIES,
St Paul's advice in 1 Timothy 2:12, in which the saint says: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit to you husbands as to the Lord";
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)
“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)
LIKE GOD GIVES A SHIT ABOUT KILLING BABIES
1 Samuel 15:3: "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "
Psalm 137, which celebrates this terrible revenge: "Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
I have personally witnessed, on multiple occasions, chants from the religious anti-choicer's..."god condemns abortion...trust in god". and "Jesus I can hear your voice, life is the only choice". WTF...it seems they have missed what their myth says otherwise.
On an interesting note, I was having a discussion with a fanatical theitard, while holding our respected placards, well maybe it could not be called a discussion...but she hurled at me..."soul killer" and "the soul is placed at conception". I think I replied "shit for brains". But, an interesting view none the less.
Aww! FUCK!!
Again, with the abortion shit. What the fuck. God damn.
The issue is fucking settled. The woman has the right to determine how her body is going to be used.
Quit bringing this shit up.
rmfr
P.S. — I never read this this thread except the title. First and last time I shall visit.
Ummm sorry. Didn't know it was a touchy subject for you...or this site.
My view is a mixed one. I believe that religion has no claim on right to life, and really no bearing on abortion whatsoever...I also think that religious reaction-ism is based on innate genetic coding predisposed for survival of our species. I do believe that emotionally speaking, there is a clear middle ground. I sympathize with the emotional aspect of abortion...seeing an abortion most definitely tugs at your propensity for morality. The process is graphic to say the least, due to the relatively quick fetal shape development. Its being sucked out with a tube. However, I will fight, for the right of our species, to maintain choice of what to do with their own body. If I need an organ for my survival...are you obliged to give it to me? I think we all see the moral paradox there. But, I think that right of choice always will supersede that.
Seeing your statement Arakish.
Wasn't really questioning thumbs up or down for abortion...was just trying to figure out the theitards claim to this topic, and why they get so triggered.
@OP
I am Pro-Life for reasons other than religious grounds. I mean, the standard belief for most Christians is that life begins at conception. Also murder is a sin. Therefore, abortion is a sin. Pretty straight-forward. Take that argument away, though, and there are still plenty of secular arguments for the pro life stance.
Thanks for your response. I am not really interested in a debate on abortion per say...choice has clearly been established legally and, in my mind. However, I am interested in the reasons why the religious believe they have a biblical pretense.
Where does it say this in the bible?
@doG
Ahh, I see. Apologies, misunderstood the question.
@SomeBODIEShero
I am pro life, and pro choice. Are you pro choice or anti-choice?
"Also murder is a sin."
Then according to your bible your deity has sinned relentlessly and indiscriminately.
"Therefore, abortion is a sin. Pretty straight-forward. "
Not to me, as sin sounds like woo woo superstitious nonsense to me. My morality concerns itself with suffering, not with pleasing non existent deities from archaic superstitions.
"there are still plenty of secular arguments for the pro life stance."
You mean the anti choice stance, but please do list some.
@Sheldon
"I am pro life, and pro choice. Are you pro choice or anti-choice?"
I guess technically I am also pro life and pro choice. There are plenty of choices you can make, choose whichever one you would like; as long as you don't eliminate a life.
"You mean the anti choice stance, but please do list some."
No, I don't mean "anti choice." Out of respect to the OP, If you would like to have this discussion, please start a new thread.
SomeBODIEShero " I am also pro life and pro choice. There are plenty of choices you can make, choose whichever one you would like; as long as you don't eliminate a life."
So you're pro choice as long as none is allowed to pick a choice you donlt agree with. I think you can see the absurdity of that claim if you try.
"No, I don't mean "anti choice."
Oh I think you absolutely do as your response above shows.
"Out of respect to the OP, If you would like to have this discussion, please start a new thread."
You made the claim in this thread, so I'll have an answer in this one please, or there is only one rational inference I can make. As I always do when people make claims they refuse to evidence.
@sheldon
What are you talking about?? All I said was I was Pro Life. I didn’t attempt to offer any reasons because it was irrelevant to the OP. It seems that you think you have the answer for this one, while like so many other social issues, there is never a right or wrong, just personally justified subjective opinions. In this case, we disagree. So what “evidence” do you want, and for what?
I can tell you this. I believe in any functioning society we need to agree on certain standards. What those standards should be? That’s a continuing conversation. But I personally believe we need the standard of not killing a human. I think we’ve all agreed on that one. So is the question whether or not a fertilized egg is a human? Well what is your standard for determining “humanness”? The creation of a unique genetic code with the potential for individuals autonomy? Week 1. A heartbeat? 5 weeks.
If we allow abortions on 4 week old fetus’ , then why not 40 weeks? (Which by the way the Democratic Party HAS ALREADY proposed!) why not after they are born? (Which by the way, the Democratic Party HAS ALREADY proposed) 1 years old? 5? A standard has to be decided before it gets out of control. (ignoring the fact that this is now a person who can survive autonomously, and you as a mother are now taking away THEIR choice). I am still providing you will plenty of great CHOICES to consider once reaching puberty.
1) Abstinence
2) Free/cheap Contraception
3) Adoption
4) Motherhood
So how exactly am I anti choice? 4 perfectly reasonable choices.
Closing remarks:
The pro life stance values human life and potential for human life because the opportunity to be alive is a beautiful gift. In order to continue to flourish in healthy societies, we need to recognize this standard. If we don’t, things will snowball into worse acts. I believe we need to recognize the value of the individual growing inside a mothers womb, there by consequence of the mothers poor CHOICE, and treat that life as EQUAL to anyone else in society. If we don’t, then what is the basis for outlawing murder? Isn’t the goal for a better humanity to be the voice for the voiceless? Why do you encourage the murder of one for the sake of another?
I will leave it at that for now. Keep in mind, there is no religious overtones to my opinion here, so leave religion out of your response. How do you reply?
Edit: Simple question @sheldon. You talk about choices for everyone. Why don’t heroine addicts get a choice? Why don’t nurseries get the choice? Rapists? Tax extortioners ? Why all of a sudden are we not allowed to prohibit abortion? We have done so with so many other things...
SomeBODIEShero, You had the audacity to write that a fetus is there because of a “consequence of the mothers (sic) poor CHOICE.” Holy shit balls....was her skirt just too short when she got raped? Did “she” not have a condom in “her” wallet? Was she, at 12, coming on to the perv neighbor?
That phrase alone, speaks volumes about you and your attitude about women.
@Cyber
Really? You think I don’t appreciate women? One thing I will NEVER say is that women aren’t valuable. One thing I will say, being married to a wonderful and strong valued woman, is that no man gets very far without the strength of a woman behind him. Don’t come at me pretending I don’t have value for women. That is my ENTIRE POINT. If we value and respect someone, we want to help them make good choices. Not encourage them to do ill.
So tell me, was there anything else in that post that you disagree with, or are you just sitting on your fake high horse of socialism and liberalism that pretends to be for “women’s rights”?
And to your point...what is wrong with what I said? If a women gets pregnant, who’s fault is it?
You just turned up the volume.
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