Are there any people here who can have a discussion without bullying?

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In Spirit's picture
Are there any people here who can have a discussion without bullying?

So far in my first week I have encountered people who bully, intimidate, trash and even some atheists acting holier than thou.

Are there people here who can have a lively discussion while respecting our differences?

I am here to get an exchange of views and opinions and to get to know some interesting people on any side of the fence.

So in my second week I will not tolerate any form of harassment and will report anyone who does so but I can enjoy a great sense of humor.

I'll know soon enough if I should stay or I should go.

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Tin-Man's picture
Re: "Are there any people

Re: "Are there any people here who can have a discussion without bullying?"

...*hesitantly raising hand*.... Ummm... Mr. Spirit, sir, is that a rhetorical question?

In Spirit's picture
@Tin Man

@Tin Man

How can anyone not Love you...lol. I welcome your comments.

Cognostic's picture
It depends. You will find

It depends. You will find the trash talk generally starts when you ignore rational point being directed to you or when you refuse to discuss things honestly or ignore posts and run off in tangents. Seriously, if you are not going to be honest, what is the point of a conversation. If you are going to make random assertions and back nothing up with facts or evidence, why wouldn't people simply poo poo you away. You want to be taken seriously, ACT SERIOUS. Focus on one topic at a time and do not let the thread get away from you. Wild inane assertions are generally met with ridicule. For the most part is is the assertion being ridiculed and not the person presenting the post. With that said, no one really wants you to leave if you have anything at all serious to talk about. At the same time, people get tired of theistic bullshit and people who just don't listen. My best guess is that you are not coming off the way you think you are coming off. The mods on the site are quite good and if you complain, it probably will not be the end of anyone's life but the mods agree with you after reading a post, they will drop a PM to the offender and tell them to lighten up or leave it alone.
Just my two cents.... If you really want to learn something about silly God beliefs, hang around.

In Spirit's picture
@Cognistic

@Cognistic

Your first wrong assumption is that i believe in God. My sanity depends entirely on not believing in that God.

Your second assumption is that I purposely make mistakes according to you and the others who wish to judge and grade me. Instead of throwing temper tantrums you can try reacting with some sense of respect for the person if not for their beliefs.

Your third wrong assumption is that I am in your home and not following your rules. I have read the rules. This is not your home and the rules imposed by the mods overpower yours.

Your 4th wrong assumption is that you are the judge of honesty and dishonesty. I don't know what previous experiences with others have done to you here but please try to take each newcomer without a judgmental premise as to what they are.

Furthermore, if theistic bullshit is not your thing, that is acceptable and understandable. Again , no need to have a temper tantrum.
If you wish to continue having temper tantrums, perhaps you should forewarn me of what other topics will make you fall over the edge. EX: Is talking about mixing ketchup and mustard an ok topic or does it turn you into a trapeze artist?.... or for more serious examples are Philosophy, Paranormal experiences and UFO's acceptable topics?

Last but not least, do not consider yourselves as the authority on rational thought, honesty, or even the human psyche.

Cognostic's picture
@In Spirit: Where did I

@In Spirit: Where did I assert "You believe in God?"

2. A mistake is by definition not purposeful. What are you talking about?

3. Where did I assert you had to follow any rules. I think I said you get what you give.

4. Again , no need to have a temper tantrum. So anyone disagreeing with your perception is having a temper tantrum. How thin skinned are you. No one has treated you any more poorly than you have treated them.

5. If you wish to continue your whine, you should find the threat with cheese in it and cram some of that in your mouth too.

6. But I am an expert on rational thought, honesty and the human psyche. I have the degrees to prove it. In fact I will be giving a lecture/training to 150 University Professors next month on this very topic. We are covering, Rational Thought in the Classroom, Natural and Logical consequences, and using Socratic Questioning. I get paid for doing this. It is a part of my chosen occupation. Why shouldn't I consider myself an expert? Ha ha ha ha ha ha.....

Do you have any idea at all what sort of people are actually on this site. If you toss out a noun you are going to hit a specialist in some field of study.

In Spirit's picture
@ Cognistic

@ Cognistic

Clarification: My accusations were generalized and not meant just directly at you.

"Do you have any idea at all what sort of people are actually on this site. If you toss out a noun you are going to hit a specialist in some field of study."

I have been here for a week. I didn't exactly get a list of the great whose who in here. Your own expert mind should have deducted that.

"2. A mistake is by definition not purposeful. What are you talking about?"

Seriously. Do we have to go back to grade 2 English to be understood.

"3. Where did I assert you had to follow any rules. I think I said you get what you give."

You get what you give? What did I give? What did I get?

"4.............So anyone disagreeing with your perception is having a temper tantrum....."

I never said that. That's your perception of your reality, not mine.

"4........ No one has treated you any more poorly than you have treated them."

Proof please !! Show me where I was the first to treat others poorly and I will acknowledge it and apologize.

"4......How thin skinned are you."

I hand the response to this one to Tin Man to reply on my behalf. So looking forward to it....lol

"5. If you wish to continue your whine, you should find the threat with cheese in it and cram some of that in your mouth too."

Wow...Talk about disdain, veiled threats and arrogance. Who's whining here?

You sir, will have to merit a response from me from now on. Any more talk like that and I will simply ignore you and report you when you cross the line.

Cognostic's picture
In Spirit:

In Spirit:
"Clarification: My accusations were generalized and not meant just directly at you."

Apologies then,,,,, They appears to be a point by point piss fit over my comments.

I have been here for a week. I didn't exactly get a list of the great whose who in here. Your own expert mind should have deducted that. ( I will assume you meant to say. "No I did not realize that. I look forward to some interesting conversations.")

2. "Seriously. Do we have to go back to grade 2 English to be understood." (I will assume you meant to say. "My apologies. Poor choice of words on my part. I will go find my Second Grade English book and review it so I do not make the same mistake again. See you on the site.)

"3. Where did I assert you had to follow any rules. I think I said you get what you give." You get what you give? What did I give? What did I get? (I will assume that Second Grade English book can help this problem as well. I look forward to your future growth in English comprehension and written expression. If you need any help let me know.

"4.............So anyone disagreeing with your perception is having a temper tantrum.... I never said that. That's your perception of your reality, not mine.
(Obviously my mistake. I thought comments like "If you wish to continue having temper tantrums, perhaps you should forewarn me of what other topics will make you fall over the edge." Had something to do with something you said. My mistake.

"4..Proof please !! Show me where I was the first to treat others poorly and I will acknowledge it and apologize. Whiny whiny whiny.... no one can teach you to grow the hell up. It's something you have to do on your own. I can fetch the cheese for you if you like. Whine always goes better with cheese.

"4.....I hand the response to this one to Tin Man to reply on my behalf. So looking forward to it....lol (??? )

"5. Who's whining here? Did you read the OP or just copy it from your Second Grade Grammar book?

You sir, will have to merit a response from me from now on. Any more talk like that and I will simply ignore you and report you when you cross the line.

Excellent!!!! So you will be following my advice and simply not taking the suitcase when I hand it to you. What a successful session. You learned something today. Good Job! You do not have to pick up your end of the rope. A tug o war takes two. I'm Proud of you.

In Spirit's picture
@Cognistic

@Cognistic

LOL I am glad I was able to laugh instead of taking it personally. My perception, not yours.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog and In Spirit

@Cog and In Spirit

Why do I suddenly feel like the kid in "Kramer vs. Kramer"?... *sad puppy dog eyes*... *bottom lip starting to quivver*...

dogalmighty's picture
Now you are behaving in the

Now you are behaving in the same fashion you are complaining about. Huh.

Randomhero1982's picture
I can see how we can all

I can see how we can all sometimes appear to be a little harsh in our retorts, but in fairness this is usually in response to a theist coming on here and spouting the same old garbage and not playing ball.

For example with one of our threads recently, the OP has formulated a piss poor logical argument then shifted the burden of proof.

That deserves nothing other than distain.

Another example is one may start a thread and if you ask something specific they'll say they are not discussing that particular question.

These are clear apologist tactics and most have a low level of tolerance for it.

For my part, it's just banter and I have no issues when it's done to me either.

In Spirit's picture
@Randomhero1982

@Randomhero1982

Most concise, honest, and appreciated response I have read so far. Thank you for that. I can understand how theists can get on our nerves. I have met my fair share. And just to be honest myself even though I don't like the biblical Gods and don't like to make reference to those books I will admit that some good teachings have found their way in there. But that's a different topic. Thanks again for your input.

comoke1024's picture
I do make an effort to avoid

I do make an effort to avoid ad hominem arguments. If I have failed in some posts of mine, then I do apologize.

For the most part, I make every effort to focus on my responses on the arguments provided and make my posts specific to the questions asked.

If you have any examples where I failed on either of these goals, can you please provide them? As I said, I make the effort to avoid speaking disparagingly of individuals and if I have in fact done so, I would like to correct the behavior, if possible.

In Spirit's picture
@Skeptical Kevin

@Skeptical Kevin

You were not on my radar. Nothing inappropriate ever came from you. I appreciate your insight.

dogalmighty's picture
"You will find the trash talk

"You will find the trash talk generally starts when you ignore rational point being directed to you or when you refuse to discuss things honestly or ignore posts and run off in tangents."

This.

Chimp is sentient.

In Spirit's picture
@doG Point taken. Thanks

@doG

Point taken. Thanks

Cognostic's picture
I don't see the problem. You

I don't see the problem. You started posting on 3/3 and got reasonable replies to your spirit of love garbage. Comments you have made include, but are not limited to....
1. " What do you read, not books!"
2. " Hope you're not a teacher!"
3. "My my, people professing to be atheists, some of you have distasteful characters."
4. " Too much repetitive babble just like religious fanatics"

Seriously? You don't get to join in on the banter and then complain about it. That just makes you look hypocritical.

I will go back to what I said in a previous post. You want to be taken seriously, talk seriously. It's just that frigging simple. To get respect you have to give it as well.

In Spirit's picture
@Cognistic

@Cognistic

I assure you that I did not write those things without merit. After all the trash talk, inappropriate sarcasm, and inappropriate comments I think I merited to be their own mirror.

Just like everyone else I have my own suitcase of crap I regretfully created for myself in my life so when someone hands me their own suitcase I will give it right back to them. I'll keep mine and they can keep theirs. I won't be the first to throw trash at anyone. You can hold me accountable on these words.

Is my response rational enough for you?

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terraphon's picture
@in Spirit

@in Spirit

"Is my response rational enough for you?"

Please don't even try to say that this wasn't intended to be snippy. The response WAS rational, right up to that point. When you add in stuff like that, you're painting a target on yourself.

If you want to be taken seriously, act serious.

Cognostic's picture
Fuck Your Merit: You don't

Fuck Your Merit: You don't get to do it and then complain. "Teacher Teacher, he hit me first" You do not get to call other people inappropriate while being inappropriate yourself. You do not get to use sarcasm and trash talk and then cry because the trash talk and sarcasm of others has left you butt hurt.

You certainly have you own suitcase of crap. So why not simply set it down and move on from this point without it. When someone gives you their suitcase, why bother reaching out to take it. It takes two to have a tug-o-war. IF YOU DON'T PICK UP THE ROPE THE OTHER PERSON JUST STANDS THERE LOOKING STUPID. You do not have to reach out and grab any suitcase that is handed you.

YOU SAID: "I won't be the first to throw trash at anyone."

THEN YOU FOLLOWED IT UP WITH: "Is my response rational enough for you?"

Getting past the tone of the comment and assuming you meant to say, "I hope you find my response rational." or "I will attempt to be as rational as I am able and I hope others will do the same." Assuming you meant to say something like, "I really am doing my best to be rational here and I hope you understand." You opted for "Is my response rational enough for you?" Right after asserting that you asserted, " I won't be the first to throw trash at anyone. You can hold me accountable on these words."

I hope the hypocrisy of the your assertions are clear enough for you to rationally comprehend.

In Spirit's picture
@Cognistic

@Cognistic

"THEN YOU FOLLOWED IT UP WITH: "Is my response rational enough for you?"

You obviously don't know how many times I've been told to be RATIONAL...hence my response
Just as I've heard "vomit" so many times. I believe I am entitled to make reference to them when they are thrown at me excessively.

i am so fed up of this Rational assertions just as many of you are fed up of theists repeating the same things . Which you all have many names for. Enough already.

Now that we are clearing the air and seem to better understand where we all come from. There is hope.

Let's all stop the accusations please. I have nothing more to say on that topic. We all have better things to discuss I'm sure.

Cognostic's picture
Let's all stop the

Let's all stop the accusations please. I have nothing more to say on that topic. We all have better things to discuss I'm sure.

Ewwww! An attempt to be the "Bigger Man." I like it. It looks like real progress and I am more than happy to agree. See you in the forums.

David Killens's picture
I understand that the other

I understand that the other person on the other side of my monitor is a human being just like me, with emotions, ego, and pride. I try very hard to stay on track and give respect. But as others have pointed out, when someone acts like a dishonest dufus for pages and pages of dialogue, then even I run out of patience and get insulting.

If they do not give respect, then it is foolish of them to expect it from others.

In Spirit, here is a question worth pondering.

If atheists acted like many theist visitors in here, what would you think? And one more thing, I wish you spend eternity in agony because you do not believe in my sky fairy.

In Spirit's picture
@David Killens

@David Killens

I agree with your point. I too have had my fair share of being condemned by the fanatical. I have even been accused of being the devil incarnate for not believing in their god and for pointing out the biblical reference of god as a liar.

You might like to use that biblical reference against their god if that's your thing but that might open up Pandora's box.
You know we still live in a time where a man can claim to be sent from god and do and say as he pleases and get away with it.

We must also remember that many theists are adamant in their beliefs. If we want to convince them of other possible realities we should start on a good note. Time will tell if they are open minded or closed minded.

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
When many theists and those

When many theists and those of a "spiritual" bent post here they do so with an inherent arrogance. Posting walls of text with little substance to commend them.
Then they get huffy when they are greeted with pointed questions or well deserved derision.

Maybe a lesson could be taken from this post of yours:
- Post considered intelligent well thought out comments.
- Read previous posts like yours and look at the replies they generate ( Do not make the same mistakes)
- Understand that as a theist or a purveyor of any type of "spiritual" message generated by personal experience - you will not be
believed.
- This is an Atheist Forum, not a woo club for the self congratulatory and those seeking converts
- If you have not got concrete evidence for your claims be prepared for ridicule and hard questioning
- This is an Atheist Forum, not a place for unevidenced spiritual claims
- If you claim "to have helped hundreds of people" be prepared to evidence your claim. Names, addresses and proper stats.

Try asking questions. Most folks here love sharing their considerable knowledge in specialist fields.

The mods here are excellent. They have a nose for frauds, charlatans and the thin skinned. As well as sock puppets, trolls and the like. Their actions are never considered bullying.

Be happy, take criticism, learn from your mistakes.

Always remember YOU chose to visit this forum. You chose to post your claims. Don't like the responses? Probably it is the way you post your ideas. Look at the points above and try again.

Arrogance and blowhardiness are never welcome in polite society.

In Spirit's picture
@Old man shouts

@Old man shouts

Points taken. Let's also try to keep a hold on our own arrogance. All types of humans regardless of beliefs can be arrogant at times.

algebe's picture
@In Spirit: Are there people

@In Spirit: Are there people here who can have a lively discussion while respecting our differences?

Yes. Up to the point where someone suggests I have no morality because I don't believe in their imaginary friend. That's when I tend to use language calculated to remind theists that even atheists have feelings that can be hurt.

In Spirit's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe

Excellent response. Thank you

MinutiaeAccreted's picture
Are there any people here who

Are there any people here who can have a discussion without bullying?

Honestly - it is hard for me to take a request like this seriously. Too often I have seen people complaining that their ill-formed debate points and dishonest tactics are called out, and they label it "bullying" or "aggression." That's just not, at all, what is going on most of the time. Most often what I see are people rightly getting called to task for failing to be honest and rational in a discussion. Someone disagreeing with you is not bullying, or harassment, or anything even in the same ballpark.

If you're getting people hounding you, and calling you names, instead of attacking your positions, that's when you might have a case for "bullying" on your hands. If they aren't attacking you directly, then you've got nothing.

In Spirit's picture
@AccretedMinutiae

@AccretedMinutiae

I don't mind the disagreements in my beliefs or experiences. The harassment was getting personal. That's the part I don't like. I prefer respecting the differences in any two sided conversations. I know that I can learn something from any side of the fence. Doesn't mean I will accept their dogma.

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