Contention

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Sheldon's picture
Nope. You're just extremely

Nope. You were just being laughably dishonest, and biased.

CyberLN's picture
Sheldon, apparently breezy is

Sheldon, apparently breezy is allowed to chunk things into bite sized pieces, but when you do so, as with items in his holy book, you are taking things out of context.

arakish's picture
Actually I it is because they

Actually I it is because they find atheism to be contentious with their fragile egos that makes them incapable of keeping their opinions to themselves.

And because they cannot keep their opinions to themselves, it forces us to defend ourselves.

It is you Absolutists that ALWAYS starts the fight. If your religion is nothing but peace...

rmfr

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Generally speaking, people

Generally speaking, people tend to stay away and avoid contentious and controversial topics. But if there's nothing controversial or contentious about atheism, then it makes sense that Christians do not shy away and are the first to engage. Like I said, they merely view your position as wrong.

Your perspective will obviously be different, since you feel like the victim that needs to defend himself.

arakish's picture
Breezy: Generally speaking,

Breezy: Generally speaking, people tend to stay away and avoid contentious and controversial topics.

Except religious believers, especially Christians and Muslims, and this is due to the fact that they are ultimately the most violent and the most hateful of ALL ideologies.

Breezy: ...they merely view your position as wrong.

Then why must ALL of you Absolutists have to jump down our throats, shoving your Bible feet-first? Why must you Absolutists be so damned militant about proving us wrong? Why must it always be you Absolutists to start the flaming?

Good examples are when I meet an Absolutist for the first. They are the first one to announce they believe in God and Jesus (or Muhammad and Allah). I simply say, "OK. Good for you." And it is always the Absolutist who forces the issue, asking what I believe, then when I tell them, they are the first to become verbally violent to prove I am wrong. Why is that?

I have never met ANY Absolutist who was not ultimately militant, downright hateful and spiteful, sometimes verging on actual violence to prove they are right and I am wrong. Why must ALL Absolutists take that, "I MUST save your soul even if it kills you." approach. Why can NO Absolutists also hold my Fourth Commandment to be true?

My Four Commandment (repeated for the millionth time): "You shall respect the right of ALL persons to believe whatsoever they wish to believe; even if contradictory to your beliefs. You may discuss beliefs; however, forcing your beliefs onto others is condemnable."

For clarification: Just because I RESPECT your right to believe whatsoever you wish to believe does NOT mean I have to respect your BELIEFS.

And here is something a lifelong Christian (70+ years) with a PhD in religion (I forget specifically) said to me once:
"You should be ashamed of yourself for not raising your daughters in the Word of God. You should be ashamed for never taking them to church to teach them to be proper Christians. It is no wonder you lost them all. You lost your entire family as payment for not raising your children correctly.”

And please keep your bullshit sympathy. Because that is what it would be. Another thing ALL Absolutists are incapable of: true sympathy. And then you Absolutists wonder why I have finally, after 50+ years, turned the tables and have become a "Militant Anti-Religionist," and have the audacity to ask me why.

And because your beliefs are based on lies, falsehoods, innuendoes, plagiarized myths and legends, and made up faerie tales means, as we put in SENCland, "I ain't never gonna believe your horse hoowhee. That bullshit is as useful as a used tampon."

And this is where you Absolutists turn to violence. ALL of you feel it is your moral imperative and God-given right to FORCE your bullshit onto ALL others, even if you have to kill us.

If it were not for us Secularists standing up for ourselves and getting the laws passed, you Absolutists would still be burning us at the stake, dunking us in water, tying a boulder to our ankles and throwing the boulder into a deep lake, converting us into basketball centers, piling large rocks onto our chest until the rib cage collapses, hanging us by neck until dead, converting us into a pin cushion, amongst many other forms of VIOLENCE. And if you say, "No we would not do that." Then you are just as big a spewer of incorrect assumptions as ALL other Absolutists. Absolutists are incapable of telling the truth unless telling a lie with get them into βαθιά σκατά.

If wondering, βαθιά σκατά is Greek for deep shit. Due to my wife being Greek, sometimes, some things just come out Greek. ;-)

As I have said in other threads, Christianity and Islam are the two greatest threats to all humanity, for they are the most hateful and violent ideologies ever created by man. Yes, there are some "truly good" people within these ideologies, but ultimately Religion itself is actually Humankind's worst enemy.

And there ain't no one who can disprove these facts about religions and the believers.

rmfr

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I personally think you just

I personally think you just need to relax a bit, things are not that serious. Life is full of criticism on every front, and people say harsh things, just learn to cope with it. I only have sympathy for things that are out of people's control, and your perspective is not out of your control.

My immediate family is protestant and everyone else is Catholic. They were vocal when my mom left the church, and they still view us as the lost ones, my mom was criticized for not having baptized us when little, and so on. Their behavior is natural and expected, so who cares? I don't see the point of taking it personal.

Feeling like a victim is a tempur pedic mattress, you just sink right in very comfortably.

Sheldon's picture
You don't think disagreement

You don't think disagreement is likely to cause argument? Do you have an encyclopedia of semantics or something? The real funny thing is how contentious you're being / always are.

Sheldon's picture
The OP doesn't say atheism is

The OP doesn't say atheism is contentious, it ask why theists can't avoid finding it contentious. Moths to a flame...especially since atheism makes no claims, and doesn't have dogma or doctrine to force on anyone.

Sheldon's picture
I suspect there my be a

I suspect there my be a simpler explanation. like what's the point in adhering to a religion if it doesn't give them an advantage over those who don't. Now there's the fake afterlife of course, but that's, well fake, and it's years away. They need something more tangible in the here and now, and lauding it over non-believers with their self righteous puritanical rules fits the bill.

LogicFTW's picture
I always feel a theist

I always feel a theist subconscious screams: Something does not add up here, not even a little bit!" Where their conscious mind ignores it and tries to rationalize it away. Since the subconscious mind harbors constant doubt, it makes their overall faith ego quite fragile.

arakish's picture
John 6IX Breezy

John 6IX Breezy

I personally think you just need to relax a bit, things are not that serious. Life is full of criticism on every front, and people say harsh things, just learn to cope with it. I only have sympathy for things that are out of people's control, and your perspective is not out of your control.

My immediate family is protestant and everyone else is Catholic. They were vocal when my mom left the church, and they still view us as the lost ones, my mom was criticized for not having baptized us when little, and so on. Their behavior is natural and expected, so who cares? I don't see the point of taking it personal.

Feeling like a victim is a tempur pedic mattress, you just sink right in very comfortably.

I have. For almost 50 years I have relaxed and allowed you Absolutists to shit all over me for no other reason than I have no belief in any god(s). After dealing with being shat upon for 50 years, one tends to get a little pissed off. You know, just a tad... Since you Absolutsits have been so damned militant against me, I feel it is now my turn. I have now jumped up out of my foxhole and it is my turn to shit on y'all.

"You only have sympathy for things that are out of people's control..." I doubt that. Absolutists have no sympathy except for other Absolutists. You know, that is the old, "You shall live in peace, love, and brotherhood, but only with those of like minds (beliefs)."

"My perspective is not out of my control." No it is not. However, re-read the little blurb above.

As for taking it personal, well I guess you are incapable of the belief in this adage: Before you go stepping all over someone's feet, try walking a mile in their shoes first.

I have been religiously persecuted by people who think as you think for my entire life. So yes, I take offense when persons still try to tell me that their bullshit religious beliefs are the ONLY TRUE TRUTH. When in actualiy ALL religions were created from the lies of flim flam men who desired power over their brethren and not actually have to work for a living.

ALL RELIGIONS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A METHOD OF MIND CONTROL IN ORDER TO ENSLAVE THE ENTIRE HUMAN SPECIES!

This is FACT that shall never, ever be disproven.

Even though I am an atheist, I also do have mine own form of spirituality. However, it is also based in HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. And as I am always saying, "If it cannot be verified or falsified, then it is NOT evidence."

Thus, if you do not like my Militant Anti-Religionist beliefs, you know where the door is. I am never, ever going to pull any punches on you Absolutists anymore.

rmfr

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Well don't let me stop you

Well don't let me stop you lol.

Cognostic's picture
It's not contentious at all.

It's not contentious at all. What makes you think it is?

Sapporo's picture
It isn't just a matter of

It isn't just a matter of theists finding atheism "wrong" - most of the world's theists follow a religion that says that atheists should be tortured. Why is that?

arakish's picture
@Sapporo

@Sapporo

I have often wondered about that. Especially Christianity and Islam, it seems these two boil down to one premise:

"You shall live in peace, love, and brotherhood, but only with those of like minds (beliefs). All others are to be put to the sword (killed)."

I pick on these two the most simply due to the fact that these two combined have killed more persons than ALL other ideologies combined.

I just find it so ludicrous and laughable that these two ideologies that claim to be the most peaceful are the most violent and hateful.

rmfr

Sheldon's picture
Fear. Religions have always

Fear. Religions have always feared cold hard reason when it stripped of all superstition.

Bill Kilpatrick's picture
ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ - You appear

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ - I'll rephrase the question: What makes rational thought contrary to the existence of god so objectionable to those who believe in his/hers/its existence? You appear to be the only sky-god devotee present. Can you also tell me why so many of your ilk are drive-by posters?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I don't have the descriptive

I don't have the descriptive statistics, but I would argue that the number of drive-by theists is not significantly different from the number of drive-by atheists. Simple explanations would include not being able to find the site again, or forgetting your login info.

I don't know anyone (Christian) who finds rational thinking objectionable. At most, they are aware of its limitations and stress the need of external sources.

Any objections will primarily be directed at your conclusions about the existence of God; and I can't think of a good reason why it shouldn't.

arakish's picture
Breezy: Any objections will

Breezy: Any objections will primarily be directed at your conclusions about the existence of God; and I can't think of a good reason why it shouldn't.

While some of what you say is true, the piece highlighted above:

The same old Shifting the Burden of Proof.

Always remember. Those making the outlandish and preposterous claims are the ones who bear the Burden of Proof.

Otherwise, Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui negat, Latin for, "He who says he does not have the burden of proof lies."

rmfr

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
How does the burden of proof

How does the burden of proof work in instances where a minority view is clashing with a majority view? For example, if most of the world believes the holocaust happened, but a small group says it didn't.

Bill Kilpatrick's picture
"How does the burden of proof

"How does the burden of proof work in instances where a minority view is clashing with a majority view? For example ..."
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors
... and for good measure:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Qur%27anic_scientific_errors

Diotrephes's picture
People love Jewish fairy

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ,

"For example, if most of the world believes the holocaust happened, but a small group says it didn't."

People love Jewish fairy tales, even Mohammed and Hitler believed in them.

*edited to add person and comment post responds to.

Bill Kilpatrick's picture
I don't frequent theist sites

I don't frequent theist sites so I'll have to take your word about atheist drive-bys. Rational christian thought concerning god's existence resembles a pretzel - Iron Age folk tales and sky-god myths from the Middle East validating Iron Age folk tales and sky-god myths from the Middle East.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
"Rational christian thought

"Rational christian thought concerning god's existence resembles a pretzel."

Sounds like its theistic ideas that are contentious to atheists and not the other way around.

Bill Kilpatrick's picture
Might sound that way to you -

Might sound that way to you - which is perfectly in keeping with your sky-god mind-set. Thanks for the chat. I think we can only go round and round on this; me citing the utter implausibility of an entity of some sort engineering and administrating every single event in the entire universe and beyond and you referencing the speculations of some undeniably intelligent but hopelessly ill-informed goat herders from ancient Palestine.

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