This I took from https://beliefmap.org, a site that claims to answer "Life biggest questions". What is your opinion about these two things?
Defining God
In Western philosophy, God is supposed to be the “greatest possible being”—maximally worthy of worship.Theism is the view that such an entity actually exists. (Atheism is the view that God does not exist).
In virtue of God's unsurpassable greatness then, God is plausibly understood to be the singular all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing, everlasting (or eternal), perfectly free creator of the Universe.
Moreover, God's existence is supposed to not depend on anything else. If this all-good God exists, then God naturally loves you and entering into divine fellowship with God is central to your greatest good, purpose, and fulfillment.
Source of Morality
Step 1. If God really exists, then the likelihood that God in His goodness would take steps to bring about the greatest goods is significantly higher than a 1% chance.
Step 2. Whether in fiction or reality, the greatest goods require a community of embodied moral agents in a moral arena.
Moral arena = def. A community of persons—not necessarily humans—in circumstances where they can engage in moral decision-making, and can interact and mold themselves in morally significant ways. (Note: the “morality” here can be illusory, so a moral arena can exist even if objective morality does not.)
Step 3. Therefore, if God exists, there is a greater than 1% chance that God would bring about a community of embodied moral agents in a moral arena.
Step 4. By contrast, the likelihood of such an arena existing on the assumption of atheism is far lower than 1%. To see this, multiply the improbabilities of (a spatio-temporal world existing) x (of it being life-permitting) x (of life appearing in it) x (of life developing consciousness) x (and moral awaress). This leaves a lot out and yet already it seems far lower than 1%.
With this thinking in mind, consider all the evidences for theism below and judge for yourself whether our observations are more probable on theism than atheism.
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Believing the product of 5 numbers you don't know (and don't know the relationship between) is less than 0.01 is a pretty serious leap of faith already.
More babble. Aperez's partial definition seems to exclude any Abrahamic god. He still assumes the supposed god has human wants, likes and dislikes and which wants to be worshipped by humans. Add one more god to the list?....
http://www.godchecker.com/
Still awaiting evidence of any god.
You wrote: Theism is the view that such an entity actually exists. (Atheism is the view that God does not exist). Nooooo.
Atheist is the rejection of claims made by theists that one or more gods exist. The reason atheists reject such claims is the lack of proof that gods exist.
Do you have any proof that gods or god exists? Care to share it??
It is quite possible that you misrepresented yourself aperez241. Are you or are you not an atheist because it doesn't sound or read like you are.
There absolutely no proof that there is or ever has been any god or supernatural being. Understanding that fact is what determines an atheist. It is not as you say "believing" that there is no god. Atheism isn't a belief in any way shape or form.
Also, morality comes from society. It has always come from society. It has never come from a council of god-like beings, a bible, or a god.
well if this counts as proof , there is over 6,000 facts that JESUS CHRIST was born, lived 33 years, was crucified ,died on the cross and rose from the dead 3 days later ,all record in the Historical Library in London, England. There is 2,000 there that Socrates existed.
Fact : Did you know that if the sun was 1 degree closer to the earth it would burn up and if 1 degree farther the earth would freeze.
I believe that a Super Intelligent Being one who is infinite, omniscient , omnipresent and omnipotent did this and who or what do you believe perfectly position this world?
Mick, from where did you get those number (6000 and 2000). Please cite your source.
As to the earth’s distance from the sun, you do realize, don’t you, that the earth’s orbital distance from the sun changes?
I understand you believe in this creature. Have you any actual, verifiable, testable data upon which you base that belief?
No such Library as the "Historical Library, London England" . But if you can supply an address I will get one of my relatives to pop along and have a look at the index cards or microfiche...Otherwise why dont you post a link?
Again, Mick, you keep saying there are over 6000 facts that jesus existed and that they are kept in this fictional place that YOU call the Historical Library in London. Well, prove it. Fucking give us something to verify this claim of yours.
Your sun data is wrong in the first place. Try again junior.
"well if this counts as proof , there is over 6,000 facts that JESUS CHRIST was born, lived 33 years, was crucified ,died on the cross and rose from the dead 3 days later ,all record in the Historical Library in London, England. There is 2,000 there that Socrates existed."
Facts? I think not, and that isn't a library I've ever heard of, what library are you referring to and where is it exactly in London? Could you give us the three most compelling of those 6000 'facts' so we can immediately be swayed into belief, and all in time for xmas as well.....
sigh....
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"Fact : Did you know that if the sun was 1 degree closer to the earth it would burn up and if 1 degree farther the earth would freeze."
The earth is freezing in quite a few places, and some of the hottest places are burning up by any objective definition, this sounds like an absurd factoid to me if I'm honest.
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"I believe that a Super Intelligent Being one who is infinite, omniscient , omnipresent and omnipotent did this and who or what do you believe perfectly position this world?"
You can believe the moon is made of cheese if you want, but since you don't even pretend to offer evidence for your claim it gets Hitchens's razor, slash. The way solar systems form is explained by Physics, and science, and nothing about the explanations have or need anything supernatural. It's a bit of good fortune for most of us, but it is absurd to claim it happened 'for us' or even to imply it, or else you'd have to accept the 'fact' that your " Super Intelligent Being one who is infinite, omniscient , omnipresent and omnipotent " had a real hard on for dinosaurs more than humans, who existed for an exponentially longer time than homo sapiens, before it wiped pretty much all of them out, with a cataclysmic event, probably a meteor strike. Though you'd also then have to wonder why it didn't just will them away? Also why it loves predation and suffering so much it is ubiquitous in it's creation? Oh and no washy washy blaming biblical myths about the 'fall of man' since predation and suffering were ubiquitous for hundreds of millions of years before the first humans evolved.
1 "degree" closer? Do you mean 1 percent? If so, did you know that the Earth's orbit already varies by up to 7% at maximum eccentricity?
Fact: Did you also know that both Venus and Mars are technically in the habitable zone of our sun? While these positions wouldn't be quite as ideal as where Earth is now, both would still be capable of sustaining life on Earth if our planet were in those positions.
@Mick: "6,000 facts that JESUS CHRIST was born"
Well I've got over 20,000 facts that prove Superman was born on Krypton and sent here to save mankind when his own planet was destroyed. You can read all about it in the Hysterical Museum in Metropolis. If a Big Mac had 1% more calories people would swell up and explode, 1% less and we'd all turn cannibal.
Facts are fun. Let's all make some up.
Don't you find it amazing that in all universes where life is not possible, nobody is making the arguments you are making? Why do you assume that your ability to exist on Earth is evidence of special favor?
Don't you just love it when religious folk try to hijack morality.
To everybody:
I found this site and I wanted to know your responses to what the site says as it supposedly is the place for believers to go to get answers to fundamental questions. These are not my opinions or positions about these matters. I find the reasoning wanting but I want to have different inputs.
@aperez241
You didn't answer the question. Are you an atheist or not!
I am an atheist though I do to know why that has to be your business or has anything to do with the post. If you do not want to discuss it then shut up. Are you a member of the mind police? I had enough of that under communism to put up with it again here. Learn some manners.
Don't think that you can tell me to shut up young man. You have no authority to do so. As for your fragile fucking ego, I asked a question. Based on the OP of this thread it appeared that you were supporting christianity, not merely posing an esoteric question. Who the fuck do you think you are telling people to shut up anyway?
As far as being atheist goes, if you are on this forum it is very much my business. It tells us the point of view you are coming from. All you had to say is one of several things.
1) Check my profile
2) I am an atheist
3) It isn't germane to the OP
But NO you have to be a fucking asshole. I don't suffer assholes lightly. I asked you a simple question and you got defensive! This is an atheist forum, why would you feel threated by a simple question? Get a fucking grip!
Go get your senile dementia tretted and take a course on good manners.
Okay aperez.
You made the shit list.
Right after you.
I know you feel like you've been spoken to rudely, but you are bang out of order throwing "senile setmentia" insult. I work with this disease on a daily basis. It is horrible for the patient and their family and I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
Just because you feel like you've been wronged, doesn't give you the right to wrong back. Two wrongs do not make a right.
@Aperez
Myk asked a simple and legit question in order to try to clarify your stance on a matter. Nothing more. No need to get rude or defensive about it.
Nobody screams at me. Exclamation marks mean screaming. I am civil with everybody and expect the same treatment.
Is that what this about? A fucking exclamation mark! I don't know what an exclamation mark means in your country but in English it meant to accentuate a point. Caps locks is screaming at someone. For example:
"IS THAT WAS THIS IS ABOUT? A FUCKING EXCLAMATION MARK!"
See the difference?
Now we have cleared up this unfortunate cultural misunderstanding, how about you both kiss and make up?
Can't we all just get along?
There is room for a Devil's Advocate! Welcome!
My input is that the ontological arguments are woeful flimflam, they're simply defining their deity into existence. You could replace the word deity with unicorn or pixie, and it'd be no nor less valid.
@aperez241: "I wanted to know your responses to what the site says"
Can you tell us your opinion of what that site says?
My opinion is that it's a pile of pseudo-philosophical nonsense disguised as science and logic. The authors have sprinkled it with percentages to make it look real, but there's no evidence to support those figures or explain the reasoning behind them. So I think it's worthless claptrap.
What you do think?
Fact: Did you know that distances are not measured in degrees?
That is a pretty nasty dimensional failure. Imagine if you asked how far it is to the local market and someone told you it is 17.5 degrees. You'd call the people in white coats to take that lunatic away; but that is exactly what you have done here.
"Atheism is the view that God does not exist)."
No it isn't. An atheist may hold this view but atheism is just the lack or absence of belief in a deity or deities. It is not a contrary claim or belief, but the absence or rejection of a claim or belief.
A good analogy is a jury in a criminal case, the claim or accusation is one of guilt, but a presumption of innocence means a jury need not worry about whether the 'accused' is innocent, only whether the claim or accusation has been proved, or evidenced, beyond a reasonable doubt.
Unfalsifiable claims may not by definition be falsified, but nor need they be believed. Rather a rational objective position is to disbelieve an un-falsifiable claim until proper evidence is presented to support it.
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