Do you believe in inter-species evolution and billion years universe?

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Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
*scratches head. I still don

*scratches head. I still don't see concrete proof either way on speciation.

SeanBreen's picture
Here's a very simple way to

Here's a very simple way to prove that species had to have evolved from one another.

We know that the oldest geological strata in a rock bed are the strata closest to the Earth's core - the deepest strata. And we know that the newest strata in that rock bed are those closest to the surface. This makes logical sense, since newer sediment would be deposited on top of older sediment. Therefore, whatever we find in the deeper strata, is older than whatever we find in the shallower strata.

Now, this has several implications. Scientists have found that in any intact stratified rock, the deeper you go, the less different life-forms you find. We find that in one specific strata close to the surface -- one type of rock from one historic period -- there are fossils from several different animal classes (for instance mammals, birds, reptiles, amhibians), but the deeper you go, the less different types of life you find. If we go deep enough, we discover at some point an absence of mammals, and then if we go deeper, an absence of birds, etc etc. So, the deeper we go, the less types of life we find.

So, it is quite clear that as we go further back in time, there was less variety of lifeforms. So here's the question: how did the newer life-forms come to be, when they didn't hitherto exist? They had to have developed somehow, and evolution from older lifeforms is how.

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
hmm. I actually haven't heard

hmm. I actually haven't heard that evidence argued in that way before. I have no issue with the implications of said evidence. I guess I just need a better mapping of the mechanics of a biological theory before I accept it. For example, can and how will we replicate such a thing in a lab?

SeanBreen's picture
Well, therein is the reason

Well, therein is the reason why evolutionary theory is discounted by many religious apologists: they have this idea that science is only about laboratory observation, and therefore that the theory of evolution is unscientific because massive evolutionary changes in complex species can't be observed in a single lifetime in a lab. The error with that idea is this: evolution takes time, thus we have to corroborate evidence from various scientific fields and not just from laboratory studies of genetics or mutations. That's why we look for evidences in things like geological strata, in the fossil record, in DNA, and in all sorts of other areas.

The more complex an organism, the longer significant, species-changing evolutionary differences take to produce. However, for more simple life-forms like bacteria, evolution has been witnessed and documented numerous times during my lifetime. For instance, mutations have caused antibiotic resistance in various bacteria across the planet. There have been several experiments were isolated batches of bacteria were grown in labs and each were shown to evolve slightly different traits than the others.

Human examples of evolution via natural selection have also been witnessed in my lifetime, though they are only small, because again, significant changes in more complex lifeforms take time. In sub-Saharan Africa, where malaria is a constant threat, many Africans carry the sickle-cell gene. Now, sickle cell, if symptomatic, is life threatening, but if it is not symptomatic then the gene causes no effect other than to heighten the carrier's resistance to malaria. It is no coincidence that this gene mutation has been selected for, nor that it is found most commonly in malaria hot zones. That's a pertinent, current example of an important mutation carried on via natural selection. A carrier of the sickle cell gene mutation with no symptoms is more likely to survive malaria than someone who doesn't have the gene mutation, so it makes sense that they'd live longer and thereby have more chance to procreate in those malaria zones. More chance of procreation equals more likelihood of passing on the gene.

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
I've read about the bacteria

I've read about the bacteria evolving different genetic traits in isolation. Here is my question though - did they determine if these breeds of bacteria could interbreed or not.

Ok my knowledge of single cell biology is scant so I reality that makes NO SENSE whatsoever :P

SeanBreen's picture
I honestly think you would

I honestly think you would find this resource helpful, because even though it is aimed at creationists, the claims it refutes are claims that are made by many people who have trouble understanding the concepts inherent in evolutionary theory and how they fit the body of evidence. This link contains a comprehensive list of just about every counter-claim to evolution I've ever heard, and under each counter claim are references and links to further reading onthe subjects. Contributors include medical doctors, engineers, evolutionary advocates and graduates in scores of fields, and there are also links littered in the article to research papers on various topics related to the overall theory.

Do take a look.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
It's going to take me a while

It's going to take me a while to find the issues I have with evolultion as presently presented. Can you point out anything in the outline I would find of particular interest (it's a rather exhaustive discussion......)

and what is an "energy conversion mechanism." I've never heard of such a thing in my life

SeanBreen's picture
An energy conversion

An energy conversion mechanism is a term in physics used to describe the process by which one type of energy turns into another. It gets quite complex, but to simplify: one example of an energy conversion mechanism is the process by which chemical energy becomes heat energy or light energy or sound energy. Ever burned a piece of magnesium? During the oxidation (burning) process it gives off a little heat, a little sound, and lots of blinding white light. Rapid oxidation (fire, burning) is the energy conversion mechanism. If you do decide to try it, wear shades!

And as for some specific pages to look at, try these:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA220.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA221.html

You can also, if you're on chrome, hit your options bar and go to "find", then type in any words you think might relate to your query, to see if you can find the relevant link on the main page. The main page also lists the queries in categories (palentology, biology etc).

As well as that, I advise you to read up on the basics of mutation > natural selection, and how isolated groups of species diverge. Its actually fairly simple: an organism mutates slightly, and if that mutation benefits the organism in some way, then the organism is "fitter", survives better in its specific environment, thus more likely has a longer or stronger life than its peers, thus has more chance of procreation, and procreation means passing on the mutation. But if a mutation does not benefit an organism, rather instead hinders an organism, then the organism is less fit, survives less well in its environment, thus has a shorter life, less chance of procreation and less chance of passing on the mutation. So, in that regard, nature "selects" mutations.

A great explanation of lots of evolutionary concepts, along with genuine examples, can be found in Prof. Brian Cox's three part TV series "The Wonders of Life". I know, it's a TV show, but it's actually a very visual, factual interesting, fantastically informative TV show full of understandable explanations. Great for beginners.

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