HI All
I'm new to the forum but before I start I must tell you that I once had a wonderful experience which showed me what all of this is about, (our existence I mean) so I know there is somewhere we go after we die without a doubt.
Anyway I thought I would have a read of the Bible and sure enough in no time at all I could see that some geezer has written this book not a god, it only represents the era it was written in e.g. goats / dragons / bears feet / the face of a lion, There is no mention of guns, cars, satellite's, IPhone's, If a god had anything to do with book he would know how the future will turn out, so he may mention one of the Items like car or gun. I cant believe people fall for this book its so obvious to anybody its a story to keep the people in order.
What do you all think.
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Firstly, I think you will find that most of us aren't nonbelievers because of some knee-jerk reaction or simple dismissal. Many of us simply don't believe because we lack any evidence or experience which would lead us to even suspect that there is a god, or an afterlife. I see that you have had a personal experience that has convinced you of an afterlife, and I suppose that is enough for you to believe it, which is fine. However, the rest of us have had no such experience and cannot reasonably be convinced to simply believe because a handful of people claim to have such experiences, especially when we have no evidence that the experience was of an afterlife and not simply the natural state of a mind processing a trauma like likely imminent death. I am sure you will see why that, plus the fact that many of the people have vastly differing experiences and accounts, lead most of us to suspect that it is not a real experience of an afterlife.
You are welcome to have your belief in the afterlife you seem to have experienced in some manner, but I would caution you against the expectation that it will likely convince us of anything, as I would hate for you to be sorely disappointed.
Sadly personal experiences don't carry much weight (as Travis said). Imagine a world where we did take other people's personal experiences seriously:
We'd have to somehow reconcile everyone's contradictory religious experiences, their contradictory UFO abduction stories, their contradictory big foot stories, and their Elvis sightings. What a mess!
Afterlife? Going "somewhere?" Yeah, we are all going somewhere after we die.......SIX FEET UNDER!!! Personal experience? Were you smoking, drinking, injecting, or snorting something at the time?? Did you lose a cherished loved one that you just couldn't let go of, then saw their image in the sky, clouds, a dark room, or in your dream? Did that person love butterflies, dogs, cats, birds,etc, and did one of those creatures just happen to appear in front of you while you were thinking of this person? These are the things that theists use as proof that there is an "afterlife," and/ or a God. Kind of wacky, don't you think??
HI All
Thank you very much for your comments and I agree,
What happened was I am in the back garden looking at the full moon on a beautiful clear night and I longed to know what all of this is about, I wanted to know so much that my heart sunk if you know what I mean. All of a sudden the moon and stars appeared really close and 3D, I felt like I could pluck a star from the sky, all that massive distance disappeared and everything felt close, next thing is I am out of my body in space looking at the earth and the moon, there was someone with me explaining everything to me and there was a huge feeling of Love throughout the experience. After spending a while above the earth we proceeded to go through the universe to different places as he explained things to me, If I was unable to understand something he either made me experience the thing or become it so I would understand, It was really amazing with all the love and that I did not want to come back, but when I ended up back in my body all the things he had told me started to fade away as if it was just for me, and there are things that I should not tell others because some of the things he told or showed me where quite shocking and it would frighten people but when you know the whole story it all makes perfect sense. As I begun to understand the meaning of life if you like, I remember saying to myself ( Its Obvious ). Anyway what the whole thing done for me was made me content knowing there is something fantastic going on and believe me, what we are leading up to or the end product of what I was shown is fantastic beyond words, Also I believe we keep coming back for multiple lives as it is a big learning process which is gonna take a long time for us to complete if we don't all kill each other, but I was shown that there are billions of planets with life and if we don't make it someone else will. Anyway I don't expect you to believe any of this like you said earlier, I know this happened to me it was not a dream I was awake standing up in the back garden of my home I have just put the story on for people who may be interested and hopefully give some people a bit of light at the end of the tunnel. If anyone would like to ask me any questions I will answer if I think I can remember well enough. I think when you hear people say things like ( he's been here before when talking about kids or DE JA Vu ) they may be the clues we too easily overlook.
I do apologies for any spelling mistakes or grammar as I was in a bit of a rush. Thanks Guy's
Hypnagogia.
Naturally.
How sad you pull that one on me, are you jealous because it did not happen to you, I put these experiences on in the hope that people may be interested and we could have a sensible discussion.
So... you believe in a soul transporting alien who showed you the mysteries of the universe, and this alien is shy about it's teachings? And this alien chose you, and only you to show this to? And there is nothing, except your description of this personal event that can convince anyone else?
Am I getting this straight?
And on the basis of this, we should not "dismiss" belief?
In that case we should also believe everyone claiming to have met god or fairies or leprechauns. Everyone who has been abducted an probed by aliens.
To be clear, I'm not "dissing" your personal experience of that event and the importance of it for you personally. Especially since it seems to have been a positive experience. But it has no tangible meaning for anyone else.
I did not say it was aliens, where did that come from.
@doctor jones
"I did not say it was aliens, where did that come from. "
Neither did I, to be picky. I said alien - singular. :)
But you didn't say what it was, my first though when you were "brought into space", was some form of alien. And since you only say "there was someone with me explaining everything to me", you can't really say that it wasn't an alien, or can you? Just as well as you can't say it wasn't the Easter Bunny or perhaps Morgan Freeman?
The point is that this was a personal experience. No one else shared in it, there is nothing to prove anything about it, unless you got some kind of verifiable information that you couldn't have gotten from normal sources.
There are many other much more likely explanations, some of which others have already mentioned, like hypnagogia, hallucinations, drugs or that you are simply making it up (I'm not saying you are, just that it is a more likely explanation for everyone else).
Well, I really don't know what to tell you. Seems more likely to me that you just wanted an experience so bad that your mind provided one. So, barring any of this "knowledge" imparted to you being verifiable and substantive, I am not quite sure I would believe such an experience even if it happened to me. I have seen people convince themselves that things happened that never did, that they saw things that weren't there, and even had to sedate someone who was talking about running from polar bears during a seizure. Given what I know of human perception, even if I find my senses mostly reliable, I sure as hell try to verify anything I experience that seems unusually suspect. If it had been me, I probably would have went to a psychiatrist if I had such an episode, but hey that is just me.
I will say that I have had my fill of "secret knowledge" type religions, as they tend to conflict with reality in a major way, and rarely contain anything even remotely scientific. Even in your own story, you speak of visiting different places in the universe in one night, which stupendously breaks the laws of physics in so many ways that I have a very hard time considering it anything but a hallucination or something. While I appreciate that you believe that what you experienced was real, I just don't think that it is even remotely possible, as it would require something like teleportation of faster than light movement. Both of which are extremely suspect, and probably the reason that some have assumed you were talking about aliens.
Moreover, you speak to things like meaning and purpose as if life needs it, and it really doesn't work that way. Meaning and purpose are created by us, not given to us, so I just don't agree that we either have or need some multi-layered purpose beyond living our lives as best we see fit. Given that I haven't seen any sign or indication that a cosmic force/being is looking out for or interfering with my life, I see fit to return that favor, and simply don't look to or expect it to do anything at all. Perhaps that is part of the reason I have never had any religious experiences, because I neither really want nor need them, and it seems that only those actively searching for something like a god ever seem to have them.
Perhaps we are playing humanities longest game of hide-and-seek, and god is just really damn good at hiding. Perhaps god merely doesn't exist. It my mind, it doesn't really matter all that much. You see, an intangible and invisible being that doesn't really do anything is just as real or useful as one that doesn't exist. But, hell, if I am ever born again I will let you know.
Sounds like some good mushies bro, maybe you can hook me up. Just kidding, I stopped eating shrooms in my twenties.
Travis, Pragmatic, CuberLn, C.M. Allen--There you go again!!! Stupid is as stupid does. There was llovequestion and you assholes debating Adam and Eve and the talking snake and Noah's arc. Then you assholes had endless discussions about the "SOUL" Yes you assholes "argued " about the "soul"" Then you assholes talked with some dumbass who say's he went to heaven and came back. Compromising any integrity or dignity which you don't have now your "arguing" with Dr. Jones about his experience of the after life. Next subject Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. The FUCKING AFTERLIFE"--- I can go on and on and on insulting all of you but what's the use. As often as I ridicule you idiots you continue to embarrass yourselves and behave like morons God Bless.
And you call me boring for being repetitive... Déjà vu
What a complete bonehead you are Prag.
Yes, I see. Hmm.
I'm not the one getting personal and I'm not the one claiming everyone else should believe in things without evidence because I had a 100% subjective and very questionable experience.
It might be that you don't know why my above comment was made, or rather to whom... Blasphemy is a well known troll on the forum, and he will write just about anything to piss people off.
Read his comment below: "Doctor Jones is a retard, an imbecile an idiot, a dumbass, and all you fucking fuck faces continue a conversation with a brainless jerk"
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/comment/28304
That is the lovely individual my comment was for and that you are "standing up for", by calling me bonehead.
Your bitter comments only reveals your own bias against anyone who does not believe you. We automatically become boneheads and need straight jackets, because we are sceptical. If you would only realize the irony in your bitter comments, you would probably crawl away in shame.
In my own opinion, you are the one who is close minded. Since you can't seem to deal with the fact that others don't believe you and are sceptical.
Yeah, I guess we are the ones who need the straight jackets for not believing this garbage. I underatnd having an "open mind" about certain things, but "open mind" dosen't mean that you have to accept ridiculous claims that have not one shred of credible, verifiable evidence using any logical means. Believing in junk like that just makes you a gullible idiot, succeptable to ANY scam, scheme, or ridiculous claim. The "open mind" statement is often used by theists to make clear thinking, logical people sound as if THEY are the ones being unreasonable.
The skull, mandible, cervical vertebrae, and the bones of the ear canal are all very important bones of the head.
If someone happened to not be a bonehead, I would think that's a drastic medical emergency, or extremely rare deformity.
...Just sayin'. We're all boneheads... I'd hope.
I cant believe what I am hearing, As Blasphemy said you argue about everything. Lets get one thing straight I was not on any drugs or drink when this happened and it did happen, I put it on as a matter of interest for people not to be ridiculed by morons who wouldn't believe something if it hit them in the face, as for going to different points in the universe instantly as mentioned by Travis, get out the box Travis, and be more open minded mate, just because we cant do it does not mean it cant be done, only light goes the speed of light so why is this brought up all the time, and the person who took me around on that experience was full of love and I felt like he or she was human not alien but I did not see him or her they were just with me guiding me around, and no I don't need a psychiatrist, people on this site need to be a bit more open minded or what's the point, And talking of aliens, back in the mid 90s in Liverpool uk where I live at around 3am one night I saw a v- shaped ufo that was bigger than a football stadium flying over the roof tops of near by houses it moved very slow and did not make a sound and it had 5 white lights and to this day I don't know what the hell that thing was but other people have seen it around the world as I've noticed on UFO documentary's, Oh and I was not drunk or drugged up that time either and I got my wife out of bed to look at the craft which proves I did not imagine it. I am not religious in any way and along with others I think the bible is a fairy tale or the first dungeons and dragons book ever written.
"...as for going to different points in the universe instantly as mentioned by Travis, get out the box Travis, and be more open minded mate, just because we cant do it does not mean it cant be done, only light goes the speed of light so why is this brought up all the time..."
A. Because it isn't about what "we can't do" but that according to physics it is an abject impossibility for an object with any mass to accelerate to the speed of light, and also impossible for energy without mass to move faster than light. These are not simply things "we can't do" but actually things that appear to be impossible according to the natural laws that govern the universe in which we live. You are conflating "things that cannot be done" with "things we cannot currently do".
B. You are welcome to pretend that the laws that govern our universe and physics do not matter or are not related to your claim, but that would be silly. You are, essentially, trying to argue that something happened without a single shred of evidence to substantiate it; and then feigning bitter when we don't simply accept your word on it. Sorry pal, if you ever came into my lab with that, I would send you home. Science and reason both require much more than you have provided, and you don't get to pretend otherwise.
C. I keep my mind somewhat open, but not too open, or people often come around and try to shovel shit into it. You will find it is a hell of a lot easier to shovel shit in, than to get it out, so it is important to proportion your conviction to the evidence and not in spite of it.
"...and the person who took me around on that experience was full of love and I felt like he or she was human not alien but I did not see him or her they were just with me guiding me around..."
So you don't really know who or what it was, then? Fine, I am not particularly concerned with whether or not it was human, but whether or not it actually happened and wasn't simply a hallucination. So far, your utter lack of substantive information is not helping your case on that point.
"...and no I don't need a psychiatrist, people on this site need to be a bit more open minded or what's the point..."
A. Most of the people on this planet that need a psychiatrist would happily tell you that they didn't, so your rather forceful reaction isn't all that convincing, on the whole.
B. As open-minded as you seem to be? I mean, hell, you have already decided that it MUST have really happened despite and utter lack of any ability to demonstrate or prove it. Your so "open-minded" you make the Westboro Baptist Church seem positively progressive.
"And talking of aliens, back in the mid 90s in Liverpool uk where I live at around 3am one night I saw a v- shaped ufo that was bigger than a football stadium flying over the roof tops of near by houses it moved very slow and did not make a sound and it had 5 white lights and to this day I don't know what the hell that thing was but other people have seen it around the world as I've noticed on UFO documentary's"
So, you saw something you can't explain, therefore aliens? You don't see a problem with that argument?
"Oh and I was not drunk or drugged up that time either and I got my wife out of bed to look at the craft which proves I did not imagine it."
So, since you both couldn't identify it or explain it, it MUST have been aliens?
Once upon a time I would have had to sail the seven seas and ride on horse back to get to you and ask, Hey Travis would you like to come to my party in the UK. Now I can phone you anywhere in the world in seconds and invite you, are you getting the idea, don't get caught up in the laws of physics crap as they are toddlers when it comes to knowing the whole picture. It was an out of body experience so how can I bring proof back. I can only say one thing, with your attitude you are missing out. Also I think that the fact I was standing up in the back garden at the time if it was a hallucination I think I would of fell over don't you.
"Once upon a time I would have had to sail the seven seas and ride on horse back to get to you and ask, Hey Travis would you like to come to my party in the UK."
Indeed, and even at that time physics would not have prevented you from being able to call, had phones existed.
"Now I can phone you anywhere in the world in seconds and invite you, are you getting the idea, don't get caught up in the laws of physics crap as they are toddlers when it comes to knowing the whole picture."
We may not know everything, but we do know some things, and they have remained very consistent. It was impossible for us to flap our arms and fly to the moon in Newtons time, and it still is now. Sure, we can go to the moon, but only by building contraptions that enable us to do so and also work within the framework of physics. You are stating that someone can do something considered patently absurd, then claiming we are all just too stupid to understand it, without actually providing any evidence how or if it actually even IS possible. THAT is rather silly.
"It was an out of body experience so how can I bring proof back."
You did say that some knowledge was imparted to you, somehow. Oh, wait, I forgot that you couldn't tell us. Nevermind, how about you tell us about the dragon in your garage instead.
"I can only say one thing, with your attitude you are missing out."
Yes, yes, now you sound like a TRUE religious apologist. Unless I am willing to believe you for no good reason, then I could never understand it, and only TRUE believers can understand what you are talking about. Ya just gotta have faith!
No, nobody is impressed with your assertion that we are "missing out" on something when you can't even show that it exists, nor even demonstrate that it is possible.
"Also I think that the fact I was standing up in the back garden at the time if it was a hallucination I think I would of fell over don't you."
I don't think you know how hallucinations work if you think that they leave you unconscious or unable to stand...
doctor jones - "if it was a hallucination I think I would of fell over"
Shitty argument is shitty
As a former medical technician, I find that the sheer amount of myth and misinformation people get from media and stories is so ludicrous and quite amusing. Take the time-honored media myth about epinephrine being administered by an injection into the actual heart, that is simply stupid, no serious medical professional would EVER(under any circumstances) puncture the heart to administer medications.
The heart doesn't work quite so well once you put a fucking hole in it, and you are likely to bleed out long before you get resuscitated...
Yeah, people should NOT rely on such nonsense for medical advice, they don't even depict CPR or the Abdominal Thrust properly most of the time...
I can't take it anymore---HELP ME HELP ME.. Doctor Jones is a retard, an imbecile an idiot, a dumbass, and all you fucking fuck faces continue a conversation with a brainless jerk, I don't understand such stupidity..... You know the other day I saw ticker bell on the head of Santa Clause... This image was real. I know this seems ridiculous but no one could imagine men landing on the moon... What seems unlikely can be true.... As I remember vividly Santa wore a red suit, and had a white beard. Ticker bell was this tiny glowing flying little beautiful, bird.. I definitely experienced this event. I am sure as sure as sure as can be.. This was absolutely real!!!!! God Bless
See, your Wartiness, this is a discussion forum, right? Right. So people discuss things, right? Right. If you don't like it, then you can bug out, right? Right.
There, I've helped you. I'll help you some more: the cure for warts is.............................liqiuid nitrogen.
Have fun talking shite guy's I think I will try another site because this is straight jacket land.
See, I specifically recall cautioning you against thinking we would believe or treat your experience as sacred, but I suppose you just thought that you were special. Nobody gets to be a special little snowflake here.
No I Don't think I am special at all, just SANE.
Considering the language you have used in reference to your personal experience, I vehemently disagree. You as much as stated that it was a special experience just for you.
Pages