EVIDENCE

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Sheldon's picture
EVIDENCE

Here it is then, this thread is for theists and the religious to demonstrate the best objective evidence they have for the existence of any deity.

Any logically fallacious arguments will be called, and Hitchens's razor will be applied as and when it is appropriate. Please be concise and don't resort to flimflam or vapid verbiage that leads nowhere. The first person to suggest I need to learn ancient Aramaic will be asked politely to leave. The idea an omniscient deity is also a monoglot is too stupid an idea to waste time on.

Off you go...our eternal souls are at stake...allegedly.

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Algebe's picture
Jesus must be real because 2

Jesus must be real because 2 billion people believe in him.
God must be real because without god I'd become a rapist/serial killer/bank robber.
I need god to be real because I want to live forever, so god must be real.
Jesus must be real because I know someone whose cousin's friend read a tabloid story about Jesus' face in a toasted sandwich.
God is real because it's in the Bible which must be true because god is real because it's in the Bible which must be true......
God is real because nobody ever saw an ape turn into a human being.

Does that cover it?

Tin-Man's picture
@Algebe Re: Does that

@Algebe Re: Does that cover it?

Almost, but not quite.

God is real and the bible is true because that is what my mommy told me, and my mommy does not lie to me.

God must be real, because how else would water get into a coconut?

God is real. Look at the sky! ('nuff said.)

Jesus is real, because his tomb is still empty.

God is real because I "feel" it is right.

No doubt I missed a few, but it's a good start, at least.

Tin-Man's picture
Oh, Sheldon, hope you don't

Oh, Sheldon, hope you don't mind our getting these out of the way for the theists so that they can concentrate on their "A" game reasons. (Oh, wait.... I think some of those ARE their "A" game reasons..... oops.)

Algebe's picture
And of course, god must be

And of course, god must be real because of the perfectly shaped, slightly curved, hand-sized, pre-wrapped, god-created fruit--the holy banana. Behold, it is His banana.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
You're right! And when you

You're right! And when you cut in there is a cross in the cross section!! ;)) see what I did there!

It is their banana! But not the ones in pyjamas.

Algebe's picture
@Old man shouts: "you cut in

@Old man shouts: "you cut in there is a cross in the cross section!"

When I do that, I see "666". That must be because they're Queensland bananas. They taste like shit, too. Haven't eaten a banana in years. I wish we could get Chiquita or Dole here.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Ever since Joh and his

Ever since Joh and his disciple of horror Newman Qld bananas have been the penis of satan unlike the sweet, pure virginal Carnarvon variety.
They both ( Joh BP and Newman) had a lot in common with Islam: "An unnamed sheikh was quoted in a religious publication, el-Senousa News, as saying that if a woman wished to eat cucumbers or bananas, it should be sliced into pieces, preferably by her husband or father, before she eats them. Egyptian English news site Bikya Masr reported the proposal. According to the report, the sheikh has also added carrots and zucchini to the list of apparently immoral and blasphemous fruits and vegetables."

The report may be a lot of bollocks but seems to me to be consistent with most fatwas, religious pronouncements and utter bullshit promulgated by these cerebrally challenged nonsense merchants. That includes the LNP in QLD. They have even given us UnterReichsfuehrer Dutton for our everlasting shame..

Seriously though, Carnarvon Bananas are the bomb mate, small, sweet and delicious, Best eaten slightly green in my view.

LogicForTW's picture
I know it was a week ago, but

I know it was a week ago, but I must reply to Algebe's banana post.

So that explains why cats are so afraid of bananas...

Sheldon's picture
"God is real and the bible is

"God is real and the bible is true because that is what my mommy told me, and my mommy does not lie to me."

Cough***Santa Claus*** cough.

"God must be real, because how else would water get into a coconut?"

Argumentum ad ingnorantiam, besides it's put there by pixies as any fool nose (sic).

"God is real. Look at the sky! ('nuff said.)"

That's Zeus you're talking about right?

"Jesus is real, because his tomb is still empty."

Hitchens's razor applies of course, but this is an interesting one, you see it's offered as evidence (I kid you not) but is in fact a claim that requires evidence itself, also calling an empty tomb Jesus's tomb is petitio principii or begging the question.

"God is real because I "feel" it is right."

Sadly we can't measure or detect feelings or their efficacy at validating claims, but a rather obvious problem with this one is that believers from many different religions make the same claim, and they can't all be right, they can of course all be wrong. It's simple bias, and as a rule of thumb we shouldn't try to think with our gut, so to speak.

Tin-Man's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

Dammit. I was really holding onto to hope for the "mommie told me" proof. Thought it was a strong one. Oh, wait...... You mean Santa isn't real either??? Nooooooo...!!!

Sheldon's picture
"Jesus must be real because 2

"Jesus must be real because 2 billion people believe in him."

Good man, argumentum ad populum, check.

"God must be real because without god I'd become a rapist/serial killer/bank robber."

Ah the argument from morality, proved because the majority of violent crimes are committed by atheists, next...

"I need god to be real because I want to live forever, so god must be real."

The problem here apart from the obvious bias is that even if someone could evidence an afterlife it still wouldn't evidence a deity, a fact that seems entirely lost on most religious apologists.

"Jesus must be real because I know someone whose cousin's friend read a tabloid story about Jesus' face in a toasted sandwich."

Never understood this to be honest, no one can confirm what his face looked like, check mate, the claim is so stupid I'm always profoundly amazed when people make the claim. That obvious fact aside, why would he bother? I mean if he can do anything why fuck around making his face appear in slices of tomato and toast, past it across the sky at midday and have done with it.

"God is real because it's in the Bible"

Along with unicorns and dragon which are mentioned in the bible 9 and 30 times respectively, next.

"God is real because nobody ever saw an ape turn into a human being."

Probably because the taxonomy of humans is that they are apes, part of a family of great apes, as Darwin claimed they are close evolutionary cousins, and genetics has proved this many years after Darwin first explained it, by showing we share an enormous amount of our DNA with each other.

So far so good, a few cliches but nothing in there I haven't seen used by genuine religious apologists. Good man...

Sapporo's picture
God can't exist, because God

God can't exist, because God is the greatest thing that doesn't exist.

Grinseed's picture
George Pell once boasted he

George Pell once boasted he could prove the existence of god with a single word.
"Hitler".
He went on to describe how he had told a group of young 12 year old boys that without a god Hitler would never face punishment for all those awful things he did, therefore, god..

That must break all standing Godwin Law records and much more besides.

Sheldon's picture
Excellent post, except he was

Excellent post, except he was a Catholic, so for all we know he made an act of genuine contrition and was forgiven before his death. Besides our desire for vengeance here should indicate we're not being objective, wanting something to be true is no indicator it is true, quite the opposite. Ironically his antisemitism was a result of centuries of christian antipathy towards Jews in Europe, religious apologists seem bafflingly unaware of the history of their own religion's persecutions and pogroms against European Jews prior to Nazism, and that always strikes me as a little too convenient.

Good post....

Algebe's picture
@Grinseed: "without a god

@Grinseed: "without a god Hitler would never face punishment"

LOL. There must be an IQ ceiling in the job qualifications for Cardinals.

If god exists, why didn't god stop the bastard before he did all those things? But then god doesn't give a stuff about priests molesting children, so why should he care about the actions of a German dictator?

Tin-Man's picture
Hey, if God had his only son

Hey, if God had his only son (a Jew) killed, then Hitler was only trying to imitate God to please him, and he took that shit to a whole new level.

Tin-Man's picture
Sorry, Sheldon. A little off

Sorry, Sheldon. A little off topic there.

Sheldon's picture
That's ok, I think we're off

That's ok, I think we're off to a good start.

Diotrephes's picture
If Jesus wasn't real whose

If Jesus wasn't real whose footprints were I walking in on the water, Peter's?

Tin-Man's picture
@Dio Re: Footprints

@Dio Re: Footprints

Oh, uh, sorry about that, Dio. Those were mine. Was trying out my new pair of anti-gravity boots, and the power level started going down before I could get back to the shore. So embarrassing.

Diotrephes's picture
Tin-man,

Tin-man,

The burning bush makes a lousy cooking fire. All it wants to do is talk instead of cooking the bacon and the shrimp. If it keeps yakking about the time it spoke to Moses I'm going to have to use some human shit to cook dinner with.

Tin-Man's picture
@Dio Re: Burning bush

@Dio Re: Burning bush

Hey, maybe you could invite the snake and ass over and they could all reminisce about the old days. At the very least, the ass could provide you with some shit to burn while they all chatted.

JoC's picture
Define "evidence". Does it

Define "evidence". Does it need to be scientific? Can it be Philiosophical? It it needs to be material, does it need to be God himself or a traces of God are permited?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
The evidence depends on the

The evidence depends on the claim you are making, for instance for your chosen deity the maxim "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" would apply.

Scientific theories with lots of back up experimentation and peer reviewed evidence would be one way.

Philosophy? " The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline" Is unlikely to ever prove anything. It is a study with as many ideas (not conclusive evidence) as there are philosophers.

A quick meeting with a god or gods to establish their bona fides would certainly suffice, accompanied by demonstrations of godly powers.

Traces of a god or gods would be fine if you are postulating the permanent departure or death of same. Then like fossil evidence that would have to suffice. Finding a "god " fossil would be great.

JoC's picture
It’s no fossil as it’s still

It’s no fossil as it’s still living. See Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, Italy.

Sheldon's picture
"It’s no fossil as it’s still

"It’s no fossil as it’s still living. See Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, Italy."

I'm calling foul, that's a claim, not objective evidence. The claim itself requires objective evidence.

JoC's picture
It’s on display today as we

It’s on display today as we speak. Can’t go? See photgraphs.

Sheldon's picture
How is it objective evidence

How is it objective evidence for a deity? You can see tissue samples in any lab anywhere in the world, nothing supernatural is required for this?

JoC's picture
True. But the fact that this

True. But the fact that this specimen is hundreds of years old and has not decayed when by all means, it should decay over that period of time. Even just a year of this should be enough to tell you this isn't something science can simply explain.

Algebe's picture
JOC: But the fact that this

JOC: But the fact that this specimen is hundreds of years old and has not decayed

Or perhaps the fact that the specimen has not decayed means that it's not hundreds of years old? Obviously you trust the Catholic church and its minions too much to believe that fraud may be involved. I do not.

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