Has nature ever created a code?

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arakish's picture
Senta Christine

Senta Christine

I am right here. And so is God.

Either provide irrefutable objective hard empirical data, else Hitchens's Razor.

And my razor: NO EVIDENCE = NO EXISTENCE.

If you cannot provide irrefutable objective hard empirical evidence, then it does not exist.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
Re: Senta (Posted this

Re: Senta (Posted this earlier in this thread, also. Just carried it over here to the end to make sure it didn't get lost in the shuffle.)

I'm calling TROLL! Listen, I happen to be pretty damn good at playing dumb and being a difficult pain in the ass. Matter of fact, I have spent many years honing those skills. As a result, I'm pretty good at recognizing it when I see it being used by others. And, yes, we all know there are some truly brain-dead cretins out there who grace us with their presence from time to time. No doubt. However, "Miss" Senta here is not such a brain-dead moron as "she" is trying to portray. "Her" responses are far too calculated and controlled. "She" is answering and responding in much the same ways I would answer and respond to people if I were intentionally trying to annoy them. Spotted it early on, but was just wondering how long "she" would continue. Apparently, "she" is having an absolute blast, and - in all fairness - "she" is pretty good at it. Just sayin'.....

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Senta

@ Senta

"I am right here. And so is God."

"I am right here" - I don't know that, this is the internet not your front room. = Agnostic

"And so is God" - I don't believe you. = Atheist

At 40 years old with a college (? which one I ask myself FGS) education you make unevidenced assertions like other people breathe.

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
Hey arakish, are you an upset

Hey arakish, are you an upset atheist? I saw all those definitions and you still deny that DNA is a code?

arakish's picture
I deny everything claimed by

I deny everything claimed by a sorry <censored> no-good-for-nothing <censored> <censored> lying piece of human filth and <censored> <censored>.

You just need to leave these forum boards and never back you little juvenile delinquent.

Remember this post?

Then my response?

Go <censored> yourself you sorry <censored> <censored> <censored> lying bastard. This is my last response to your sorry <censored> <censored> <censored> lying <censored> <censored>.

rmfr

P.S. — Too late for an apology. Should have been done the same day. Not several days later. No excuse or reason.

Sheldon's picture
If you think DNA is a code

If you think DNA is a code why have you started a thread asking for one example of nature creating a code, that's pretty dumb.

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
You haven’t shown that

You haven’t shown that mindless nature is capable of creating a code ,and even one that gets translated into complex things like proteins replete w error correction. If you point out DNA then that’s a circular argument

arakish's picture
And you have not stopped

And you have not stopped lying like a little childish spoiled brat.

That is the only answer you are going get to every post you make you sorry piece of human filth.

rmfr

Sheldon's picture
"You haven’t shown that

"You haven’t shown that mindless nature is capable of creating a code"

Why would I since I never claimed it could?

"If you point out DNA then that’s a circular argument"

I didn't point it out as an example of a natural code, you did in your OP??

Sat, 10/20/2018 - 13:40
J N Vanderbilt III "DNA is a code"

Unless you're claiming it isn't natural, in which case lets see you demonstrate some evidence for your claim. DNA evolved as did all living things, and this is objectively evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt, ipso facto DNA is by definition natural in origin.

Your tedious repetition won't grind us down as we're not gullible servile tambourine banging theists, crouching in pews fearful of imaginary sky fairies.

aperez241's picture
I am partially repeating my

I am partially repeating my comment because it was not addressed as far as I saw.

RNA, another nucleic acid which also codes for protein synthesis, has been proved that can emerge spontaneously. It means just by having its elemental components thrown together something that can easily happen by chance in a few million years.

https://ogremk5.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/origins-of-life-can-rna-spontan...

So, there is a "code" that can emerge without any intellect intervention. If RNA can, the DNA could and until we know exactly how we should stay with "we do not know how it was synthesized". By no means we can say "As so far we do not have an exhaustive explanation, it had to be God".

There are viruses that only have RNA as their genetic material so, RNA works as a genetic code as per the OP.

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
But the only example of code

But the only example of code ever being created from our observation has come from intelligence.
Are you saying that code can emerge spontaneously?

aperez241's picture
If by your concept of code

If by your concept of code DNA has a code, then RNA has a code and as it has been proved that RNA can emerge spontaneously from their chemical components under rather regular conditions, then code can appear just through chemical interactions without any intelligent intervention.

Sheldon's picture
J N Vanderbilt III "the only

J N Vanderbilt III "the only example of code ever being created from our observation has come from intelligence."

Not according to your OP?

Sat, 10/20/2018 - 13:40
J N Vanderbilt III "DNA is a code"

Unless you're claiming it isn't natural, in which case lets see you demonstrate some evidence for your claim. DNA evolved as did all living things, and this is objectively evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt, ipso facto DNA is by definition natural in origin.

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
RNA gets its code from dna to

RNA gets its code from dna to begin with, am I wrong?

Curious, did the Dna decoding mechanism evolve at the same time the coding mechanism did?

aperez241's picture
In many viruses, RNA is by

In many viruses, RNA is by itself, has all the information for the virus to work and reproduce, so no, RNA does not get its code for RNA in every process in which it is involved.

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
And do you think dna code

And do you think dna code evolved simultaneously as the cell’s ability to decode ?

Sheldon's picture
Why do theists doggedly ask

Why do theists doggedly ask the same questions over and over and over, even after they have been answered innumerable times, but refuse to ever answer questions themselves, ever? Do they think atheists will be impressed by this level of dishonest evasion?

Sat, 10/20/2018 - 13:40
J N Vanderbilt III "DNA is a code"

DNA evolved as did all living things, and this is objectively evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt, ipso facto DNA is by definition natural in origin. So if you're claiming it isn't natural, lets see you demonstrate some evidence for your claim?

Put up or shut up, as I seriously doubt I am the only one who is sick of your tedious unevidenced religious BS.

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
I never asked and got an

I never asked and got an answer whether the dna code evolved simultaneously as the cell’s ability to decode so don’t go saying your sick of answering same question,
I like how you infer that evolution is settled science when it is anything but.

Sheldon's picture
DNA evolved as did all living

DNA evolved as did all living things, and this is objectively evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt, ipso facto DNA is by definition natural in origin. So if you're claiming it isn't natural, lets see you demonstrate some evidence for your claim?

It was your assertion that DNA is a code, so what evidence can you demonstrate that anything supernatural was involved?

"I like how you infer that evolution is settled science when it is anything but."

I inferred no such thing, I said quite emphatically that species evolution is objectively evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt. It's asinine to deny this.

Randomhero1982's picture
Only in the minds of the

Only in the minds of the incredulous dullards is it not.

Sheldon's picture
Indeed, but this a moot point

Indeed, but this a moot point anyway, as he can demonstrate no objective evidence for a code that has been created by anything other than nature and the material physical universe. Sooner or later these delusional lunatics always end up denying scientific facts.

It was his assertion in his OP that DNA is a code, nature exists, the material universe exists, and evolution exists and are objectively evidenced, so what "intelligence" is he claiming creates codes, and what objective evidence can he demonstrate for this?

None is the answer as we have seen, which is why he has ignored the question throughout this thread, and has done so here again.

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
We know from observational

We know from observational experience that codes only originate from sentient beings. Can you point out any other source other then intelligence that you have witnessed?

Tin-Man's picture
@JNV Re: "Can you point out

@JNV Re: "Can you point out any other source other then intelligence that you have witnessed?"

Really? Seriously? Is this a rhetorical question? Do you HONESTLY want me (or anybody else) to answer that?... *chuckle*... *shaking head in utter amusement*....

Sapporo's picture
We know from observational

We know from observational experience that codes only originate from sentient beings. Can you point out any other source other then intelligence that you have witnessed?

You haven't given your proof of your claim yet. The fact is, you don't know based on observational experience that all things you call codes only originate from sentient beings.

Sheldon's picture
"We know from observational

"We know from observational experience that codes only originate from sentient beings. "

I thought you said DNA was a code? That evolved, unless you know something the entire scientific world, has missed.

"Can you point out any other source other then intelligence that you have witnessed?"

You claimed DNA was a code no? So unless you have evidence it's origins are not entirely natural then you have asked and answered your own specious argument form ignorance fallacy.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity? Or is fallacious appeals to ignorance all you have? As if we didn't know...

Sheldon's picture
J N Vanderbilt III "We know

J N Vanderbilt III "We know from observational experience..."
---------------------------------------------------------

That virgins don;t get impregnated by ghosts.

That every single thing we have found explanations for, have natural material explanations.

That snakes can't talk, ever.

That people never raise from the dead.

That miracles have never been objectively evidenced.

That no deity has ever been objectively evidenced.
-----------------------------------------------

We could go on of course, but the double standard is too obvious to be ignored here.

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
The rabbit hole one most

The rabbit hole one most delve down in order to get to an answer that fits their theocratic narrative is truly amazing.

It is amazing how in yesteryear 'God' explained all, miracles, the shape of the earth, how we came to be, earth's position in the solar system and so.

Yet as time passes, we see a constant theme.. wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, that's wrong, that's also wrong, that's incredibly wrong, oh that claim is right.. actually just kidding, that's wrong too.

Theism is now left with what is essentially god of the gaps positions, where science and rational thinking has yet to answer, they proclaim it must be god.

Logical arguments are about as good at they can muster.

Chicken's picture
I’m new to this discussion

I’m new to this discussion but aside from DNA and RNA, wouldn’t enzymatic processes be a type of code? The Krebs Cycle for instance is a series of enzymes that each take and produce specific proteins to produce ATP at the end. Would that count as a code of sorts?

aperez241's picture
J N Vanderbilt III:

J N Vanderbilt III:

I already gave you an example of a code (as by your definition of code) that is created by nature. RNA. So, your question is answered. Now what?

J N Vanderbilt III's picture
How do you know the code of

How do you know the code of dna evolved? Our experience tells us that codes only come from intelligence, but am waiting to hear otherwise. Sounds like an evolution of the gaps syndrome. You weren’t around when it originated and cannot explain how the complex specified arrangement of nucleotides fell into place. The sequences, again, are not a property of chemical interactions.

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