Has nature ever created a code?

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arakish's picture
@ Senta

@ Senta

You should stop stating your questions are "logical fallacies" and "strawman arguments." That is why we ain't answering you any better than you desire us to answer. If you are going to state that you are going to spew diarrhea before you spew it, then Hitchen's Razor applies.

Hitchens's razor

Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor asserting that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim, and if this burden is not met, the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it.

Overview

The concept is named, echoing Occam's razor, for the journalist and writer Christopher Hitchens, who in a 2003 Slate article formulated it thus: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence". The dictum also appears in God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, a book by Hitchens published in 2007.

Hitchens's razor is actually an English translation of the Latin proverb quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur (What is freely asserted is freely dismissed), which was commonly used in the 19th century. It takes a stronger stance than the Sagan standard "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"), instead applying to even non-extraordinary claims.

Wikipedia

Oops. I forgot. Ain't this plagiarism? The link? Oh... Never mind...

rmfr

Senta Christine's picture
Oh yes. Me along with 93% of

Oh yes. Me along with 93% of the world have stupid idiotic beliefs. You are the only smart ones. LMFAO

arakish's picture
Oh. You finally figured it

Oh. You finally figured it out. Yes, as a whole, the human species is a stupid, retarded, ignorant gestalt organism. 93% (actually is now down to 88%) of you prove it.

rmfr

Senta Christine's picture
Wrong. https://en.wikipedia

Wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism 73 cited scholarly sources from all over the world. Only approx 6-7% of the population of the world are either agnostic, or buddhist atheists (who believe in karma but not God), with very few convinced atheists in the world. I bet you can't even name one famous scientist who is a convinced atheist. They are all agnostic, but get grouped in with atheists. And we are not stupid. I have had enough experiences and signs to know God exists beyond any doubt. I have lost my fear of death completely. Some day you will too

Sheldon's picture
"Oh yes. Me along with 93% of

"Oh yes. Me along with 93% of the world have stupid idiotic beliefs. You are the only smart ones. LMFAO"

argumetum ad populum, the number of people holding a belief tells us nothing about it's validity. The world was not made flat because everyone once believed it so.

As to to stupidity, you seem unable to grasp that demographic is not an homogeneous belief, they all hold different beliefs in different deities. It is axiomatic that humans create fictional deities. So before you metaphorically link arms with them all, and point and laugh at those who who disbelieve one more of the fictional deities humans have created than you do, you might want to consider how stupid your claim is.

arakish's picture
I think all religions are man

"I think all religions are man-made but with a very good purpose in mind. I think it is very obvious however, that higher intelligence created this planet and that higher intelligence than mere humans exists."

And this is part of the very definition of being a Religious Absolutist and/or a Religious Absolutist Apologist.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
@Senta Re: "And natural

@Senta Re: "And natural selection has absolutely nothing to do with how food came to be on this planet."

*blank stare*.... Ugh..... (I can't believe I am actually about to have to explain this....)

Ummm... You DO realize, I hope, that WE (humans) are part of that food chain?.... Oh, and we were not (and we are not) always at the top of it. A very great amount of that food of which you speak is actually pretty much every animal that has ever existed through...... (wait for it)...... NATURAL SELECTION. That includes humans, too, by the way. Don't mean to sound harsh, but we ARE animals. Just sayin'....

Senta Christine's picture
Logical fallacy. Strawman

Logical fallacy. Strawman argument. That is not the question and you know it isn't. The question is why does food exist on this planet in the first place? Food that is not only delicious but also provides energy and nutrients we need to stay alive? Do you think that was just by luck? (by the way, most of the food on this planet is plant based, not animal)

Tin-Man's picture
@Senta Re: "The question is

@Senta Re: "The question is why does food exist on this planet in the first place?"

ROFLMAO.... Oh my goodness!... Please tell me you are just having a bit of fun here.... *tears streaming from eyes*.... You say you have a college diploma?.... *trying to catch breath*.... Did you keep your receipt? Because you might want to consider getting a refund..... *curled up in fetal position holding tummy*... Was your diploma written in crayon, by any chance?.... Bwaaa-haaaa-haaaa....

Senta Christine's picture
I am certain that I am far

I am certain that I am far more intelligent and far more educated than someone like you. And you didn't answer the question because you can't. It's a fail for atheism.

Tin-Man's picture
@Senta Re: "I am certain

@Senta Re: "I am certain that I am far more intelligent and far more educated than someone like you."

Oh, absolutely. You most certainly are. I can tell.

Sheldon's picture
She exudes erudition, and

She exudes erudition, and profundity from every syllable. Well, she exudes something anyway.

arakish's picture
Senta: "I am certain that I

Senta: "I am certain that I am far more intelligent and far more educated than someone like you."

So far you ain't proved it. The only thing you have proven thus far is to be of the species known as Homo inscius. Seems every one else here are the ones of the species known as Homo sapiens.

As far as Tin-Man is concerned, he has shown more intelligence and a firmer grasp on the answer to your question than you yourself seem to have. The biggest problem here is that you refuse the answer because of your Religious Absolutist indoctrination still has a hold on you. Unplug and wake up in real world.

And to be wholly honest with you, I was writing a treatise about how all this came to be, since you did ask that question. And I did supply you with the direction for your own research: Nebula accretion, Celestial Mechanics, Orbital Mechanics, Stellar Evolution. But, since you seem to be holding onto that idiotic and retarded Religious Absolutism, go research it for yourself. I am going to delete it. Was writing on it as I had to stay overnight at work to keep an eye on the computer systems as they were crunching a huge amount of data (a 2.5 TB HDD). Flew home, slept, got up and came here to the forums. Seeing your absolute idiocy, mental retardation, and completely closed-mindedness, "Go research the answers for yourself." I know the answers, you just do not want to know them due to your Religious Absolutism.

And if you are wondering, I'll list my education
AA – Child Psychology
ASc – Geographic Information Technology
BSc – Geology
BSc – Geography/Cartography
BSc – Astrophysics: Celestial Mechanics
BSc – Astrophysics: Orbital Mechanics
MSc – Volcanology
ScD – Global Climatology

And yes, this is nothing but hearsay evidence. Completely inadmissible in the Court of Science. However, ask others about what I have posted over the last, what is it?, eight months? I am fairly certain they will say, if nothing else, that I am quite knowledgeable in the fields of science as listed above, even if I do not have any degrees.

As others have said, I hope you can get a refund for your degree.

By the way, here are those definitions:

Religious Absolutist – anyone belonging to and possessing an inexorable belief in any religion, due to their absolutist beliefs, and is truly applicable to any inexorable religious believers, especially the worst subset, Apologists.

And you say you have no religion. Then what do you call this: "And I am not a religious anything. I think all religions are man-made but with a very good [NOT!] purpose in mind. I think it is very obvious however, that higher intelligence created this planet and that higher intelligence than mere humans exists." That is a religious belief. And since you are inexorable about it, that makes you a Religious Absolutist.

Remember this: NO EVIDENCE = NO EXISTENCE. And the atheists' Burden of Proof has been met. Yours has not. You are the one making the extraordinarily preposterous claims for your "deity" and I am asking for irrefutable objective hard empirical evidence. Otherwise, Hitchens's Razor.

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui negat. Latin = He who says he does not have the burden of proof lies.

Religious Absolutist Apologist – a dastardly subset of the Religious Absolutists who practices apologetics, which is the assumption of presupposed conclusions that have nothing to do with reason and rationality and actual information, creating irrational excuses and whatever conflicting ideas justifying their baseless assumptions, regardless of what the true facts are, using beguiling dialectical semantics, distorted and perverted data, emotional whiney-ass pleas, due to an indoctrination conditioning that is so ingrained they never question the veracity of the nonsense they offer, or why they need to defend their faith at all.

In the Apologist definition, I also highlghted what you are guilty of so far. Keep it up, wise ass. You'll get them all eventually.

Further Notes

Senta: "I am not a little child."

But you are acting like one. You are being unreasonable and whiney-assed about your illogical and fallacious question.

Senta: "I am 49 years old and I have a college education."

Yet I am old enough to be your father, Daughter. Little child, remember, I have been studying Astrophysics, Celestial Mechanics, and Orbital Mechanics longer than you have been alive. Imagine that. About 1½ years before you were born, I started my studies. Can something like that happen in that matrix of yours?

Senta: "And natural selection has absolutely nothing to do with how food came to be on this planet."

OK. I need everyone for this one, in no particular order: Sheldon, Tin-Man, Old Man, Cognostic, LogicFTW, Randomhero1982, CyberLN, Nyarlathotep, and the newset Bad Santa. I really need the Ultimate Facepalm on this one. Alright y'all, get lined up just right now... C'mon... anybody can join... On three... One... Two... Three...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1c9g2z4sSM

rmfr

EDIT: had to change a gender reference

Senta Christine's picture
I am a female, first of all.

I am a female, first of all. In regards to "no evidence=no existence" , what a load of crap. Our entire universe and all conscious life is evidence. I don't care how old you are or what you think you know. Have you ever been in love before? I mean really and truly, madly and deeply in love to the point of utter vulnerability. Did you notice that you can actually feel that other person? Even if you deny having other spiritual experiences and signs of God, we have assuredly all had the making love experience. How do you think that experience came about?

arakish's picture
Read These Essays rmfr
Sheldon's picture
"Our entire universe and all

"Our entire universe and all conscious life is evidence."

No, it really isn't. This is just an unevidenced claim.

"Did you notice that you can actually feel that other person?"

Well it's polite to ask, but yeah, hell we do a lot more than just feel other, have you tried sex?

"Even if you deny having other spiritual experiences and signs of God,

I don't deny this, it doesn't need denying as there is no evidence for it. Nor can anyone else demonstrate any evidence for it, though like you they love to make the unevidenced claim.

"we have assuredly all had the making love experience. ""

Oh hell yes, though this doesn't require any hokum superstition to explain any of it.

"How do you think that experience came about?"

You're kidding right? Well don't worry, when you find the right fella your instincts will kick in, maybe. If not there are undoubtedly books you can both read.

Cognostic's picture
Senta: "I am a female, first

Senta: "I am a female, first of all. "
There is no evidence supporting that claim. "No evidence = no existence"

RE: "Our entire universe and all conscious life is evidence." Evidence of what? Magical beings? Come on,,, are you just pulling my leg..... Ha ha ha ha . You Sir are such a troll!
The only possible thing the universe could be evidence of is the universe itself.

RE: "Have you ever been in love before?" * Blushing * I had a goldfish once. His name was Hamster of Death. One cold winter night I felt sorry for him. I was laying warm in bed and he was just sitting there looking at me and wiggling his little orange fins back and forth. He looked so cold. So I got a net and scooped him out of the water and took him to bed with me so he would be nice and warm, but when I woke up in the morning he was all stiff and dry. When I put him back in the fish tank, he just floated there. My heart was broken. To this day I can't even eat fish without crying.

RE: "Did you notice that you can actually feel that other person?" The last time I tried that I was in a movie theater and the lady in the next seat called the police on me. I barely escaped. I would suggest that if you fall in love with anyone, don't touch them until the first real date. Oh Yea, One more thing. Touch them before you drop your pants to your knees. It's hell running with your pants around your ankles.

Re: "Even if you deny having other spiritual experiences and signs of God,"
Nothing at all to do with your silly idea of God. They are called "Peak Experiences" and are a well understood psychological phenomena. (Abraham Maslow 1964)

RE: "Making love experience. How do you think that experience came about?" Now I am sure you are just a slutty guy looking for some X-rated online sex talk. I would be happy to tell you how all this experience comes about and talk to you as sexy as you like, if you can prove you don't have a mustache.

Senta Christine's picture
Also, all you do is keep

Also, all you do is keep presenting a strawman argument to avoid the actual question of why we would have food on this planet.

Cognostic's picture
There is no food on this

There is no food on this planet. There are only bunnies, cows, hamsters, cute little chicks and dogs. They are not food until you kill them, cut them into parts and sell them as meat. We make the food by killing fun things to kill/.

Sheldon's picture
I never said it was the

I never said it was the question, I said your argument was fallacious, and stated why. Your evasion is pretty much standard fare for theists on here.

"Food that is not only delicious but also provides energy and nutrients we need to stay alive? "

How long would any species live, that found available food repulsive, do you think? Can you really be this obtuse?

"Do you think that was just by luck?"

No, and I have said so now several times, all life evolved, but the vast majority long ago became extinct, we fit our environment perfectly because is we didn't we would not be here, the same is true of all living things, your stupidity and dishonesty don't exactly bode well for your beliefs. If this a puppet account Breezy has created?

Senta Christine's picture
No species could have ever

No species could have ever lived or evolved at all if food were not available the entire time. You keep avoiding the actual question and going off on hysterical tangents in an attempt to avoid the fact that food so conveniently being on this planet is a fail for atheism.

Sheldon's picture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Food exists, as do humans, and evolution is an objective scientific fact.

Now demonstrate some objective evidence for this deity you claim created it all? As all you have done there is repeat your argument from ignorance fallacy. Atheism need not explain anything, as atheism makes no claims, and is not a belief.

Algebe's picture
@Senta Christine: why does

@Senta Christine: why does food exist on this planet in the first place?

First, the various substances that we call food only become food in the presence of an animal that can consume them. So grass only becomes food when there are horses or cows around. Otherwise it's just grass.

Second, all life on this planet has evolved to consume other life as food. So life begets food and food begets life. It's a circular relationship. We've pulled ourselves up by our own bootstraps. If you ask which came first, the life or the food, I can only answer yes.

Third, food tastes delicious because we have little chemical laboratories on our tongues and up our noses that we instinctively use to test substances for their quality and value as food. We also use those laboratories to warn us about noxious and poisonous substances. There's nothing intrinsically foul about animal waste and decay, but we're conditioned by experience to avoid those smells. Sometimes things that smell and taste good are poisonous, and people sicken or die. Fortunately we have memories that enable us to avoid those things.

No animal that lacks any form of mechanism to seek food and avoid toxins would survive long. Incremental improvements in those mechanisms, such as the ability to smell blood in the water at a greater distance, give animals an evolutionary advantage, so those improvements are passed down to descendants.

So on that basis I don't see any need for intervention by a higher intelligence or deity, etc., to place food on this planet. Life and food are the serendipitous but inevitable results of a process set in motion by chance events.

Senta Christine's picture
Algebe: "First, the various

Algebe: "First, the various substances that we call food only become food in the presence of an animal that can consume them. So grass only becomes food when there are horses or cows around. Otherwise it's just grass" The

Me: No kidding.The question is why does food exist on this planet in the first place? Are we just lucky that way? You think something like that could just happen by chance with no higher intelligence involved?

Algebe: Second, all life on this planet has evolved to consume other life as food.

Me: We could not have evolved to consume food. Food had to be here the entire time or all life would have died. And again. you are only providing a strawman argument and avoiding the actual question.

And food tastes delicious because we have taste buds? Well lucky us that we have taste buds and lucky that such great food just happens to be all over the place.

Algebe's picture
Senta Christine:

Senta Christine:

Read my post again. I think you're deliberately skipping over salient points and simplistically dismissing my points without really dealing with them.

arakish's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

Here dude. Tow more hands so you do a proper facepalm on that one.

rmfr

arakish's picture
@ Tin-Man

@ Tin-Man

Here are two more hands for facepalm.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
@Arakish Re: "Here are two

@Arakish Re: "Here are two more hands for facepalm."

Dude, there are not enough hands in this entire forum to do a proper face palm for some of the crap coming out of Senta. And from the looks of it, there seems to be no end in sight for the flood of sewage pouring from her. I haven't been this deep in crap since I conducted rescue missions in New Orleans after Katrina. Lawdy, have mercy!

Sheldon's picture
"...I have a college

"...I have a college education. I very much doubt that you do since you don't even have a good grasp on basic science. "

I am extremely dubious, but if this is true you should sue them, seriously.

"back to my question of why we have food on this planet. I know you don't want to say it was just luck because you know that sounds ridiculous. And I don't blame you for avoiding answering it. It's a fail for atheism."

I don't think you know what atheism means?

Senta Christine's picture
I was raised by atheists and

I was raised by atheists and have a family full of them. (Agnostics really) and I know what it means. This entire universe and all conscious life are evidence though, so it means you are apparently unaware of yourself and your environment.

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