Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
Yep. jnv3 fits both. He is ignorant (ig•nur•unt) and ignorant (ig•nor•unt).
rmfr
How many times do I have to tell you Sheldon I Am stating that codes come from intelligence only, even if I can’t pinpoint the source. the wind the rain seismic shifts do not create codes and by codes I mean sequences sequences sequences and obviously no human created the sequences in DNA
@ jnv3
Proof of your lack of knowledge.
Wind, Rain, and Seismic Shifts do have sequences.
Go back to school and quit skipping classes.
rmfr
"How many times do I have to tell you Sheldon I Am stating that codes come from intelligence only, even if I can’t pinpoint the source. "
Do you really need someone to point out how asinine it is to make a claim for a single source in the same sentence you admit you don't know the source?
" by codes I mean sequences.....and obviously no human created the sequences in DNA"
That's a rather pointless straw man argument, as no one claimed they did? You keep claiming only intelligence creates codes, so demonstrate some objective evidence for any code created by an intelligence other than humans? Simply pointing to DNA and stating humans didn't create it tells us nothing about it's origins. Humans create electricity all the time, but they don't create lightning, does this mean lightning has a supernatural cause? Religions certainly thought so until it was objectively evidenced to be an entirely natural phenomena. That was a god of the gaps polemic, as is yours.
Xenoview I may not have the objective Evidence you’re looking for but a lot of logic is in place to tell us there is a God
"a lot of logic is in place to tell us there is a God"
Yet you have demonstrated none? Only an endless repetition of argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.
Totally concur. As said, he is ignorant (ig•nur•unt) and ignorant (ig•nor•unt).
rmfr
So w all your questioning my intel assertions, you are saying that the code /sequences in dna, which are arbitrary, along with a decoding mechanism and error correction was developed how?
jnv3: "So w all your questioning my intel assertions, you are saying that the code /sequences in dna, which are arbitrary, along with a decoding mechanism and error correction was developed how?"
Natural selection. Go back to school and quit skipping classes.
rmfr
"a decoding mechanism and error correction was developed how?"
Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, again, sigh.
Assuming we don't fully understand how this happened, you need to understand that it is fallacious and therefore irrational to assert anything about its origins based on the fact we dont have a full explanation?
You've had enough time to grasp this now, so every time you ignore it, and repeat the fallacy whilst simultaneously claiming this is rational shows you are being deliberately dishonest.
The only other alternative is that you can't read or understand simple English sentences. I'm leaning toward the former, but if you need another link with an explanation let us know.
In the meantime you can point out that science can't fully explain the origins of DNA, so what?
This doesn't stop species evolution being a scientific fact with a global scientific consensus. The only people who deny this fact are creationists, and they have neither scoentific evidence for those denials nor any objective evidence for the superstitious creationist beliefs that prompt them.
Arakish you might as well stfu
@ JN3
Why do you keep beating the same broken drum? How many pages, how many replies does it take for you to realise your OP has been debunked. Is this your favourite bath toy? Will your faith collapse if you admit the slightest doubt in your reasoning? Sheldon got it right in this post
Now please quit blathering on.
There are no 'codes" in nature. "code" is a man made construct only . It is a description, part of language.
The sequences in DNA are the product of billions of years of evolution.
If you think they are the product of some outside intelligent creator then for fucks sake produce some fucking evidence and stop causing me nose bleeds with your constant iterations of the same debunked fucking drivel will ya?
jnv3: "Arakish you might as well stfu"
You first. Your bullshit lies have been completely debunked.
rmfr
Hey old man,,, debunked according to you don’t necessarily render it so.
how exactly did evolution produce arbitrary code /sequences in dna, along with a decoding mechanism and error correction ? Which came first?????? You have NO good answer
I fear evolution of the gaps coming on
@ JN3
Fuck me dead. How dense are you? For fucks sake it has been explained so simply a myriad of times in these responses to your nonsense myopic shit. Last time you fucking idiot: Do try and read, if in doubt go back to other posts that say the same thing but in a more lucid way...I am just being as simple as you are fucking dense:
CODE = Man Made alphanumeric construct. That is fucking all.
Sequence in DNA: the product of billions of years of evolution.
How did RNA start? I don't fucking know, but that doesn't mean I can jump to "goddidit" that's just fucking dishonest.
If you want to "insert god/creator/intelligence" here somewhere, then fucking evidence it you lazy troll.
Stop inducing nosebleeds every time I read your repetitive lazy, moronic shite. Stop repeating yourself, its silly boring and fuck me dead as irritating as a hedgehog in your underpants or creationist trying to make any fucking sense.
(edit for clarity and spelling)
"how exactly did evolution produce arbitrary code /sequences in dna, along with a decoding mechanism and error correction ? Which came first?????? You have NO good answer"
So what? This still doesn't evidenced a deity using magic. It's an argument from ignorance fallacy to claim it does.
What's more we have a weight of objective evidence for species evolution that has a global scientific consensus for over a century, thus it is a scientific fact.
So it's a scientific fact all living things evolved, it's a scientific fact all living things have DNA. The head of The human genome project Francis Collins (a born again Christian btw) has stated the evidence from DNA *on its own* is enough to establish species evolution as a scientific fact.
So again I ask what is your point here, other than a gap in current scientific knowledge that doesn't fully understand the origins of DNA?
You wouldn't be making a fallacious assertion that a gap in our knowledge has an unevidenced bronze age deity hiding in it would you? Only by definition that would be an argument from ignorance fallacy, and therefore irrational.
What do you hope to achieve by endless repetition, it's obvious to us all where you're wrong here, and it's been explained why, so even you can't claim to objectively believe what you're saying is rational.
Doesn't this strike you as rather pointless? Believe what you like, that's your right, but your OP is manifestly fallacious and has been demonstrated as such repeatedly.
jnv3: "how exactly did evolution produce arbitrary code /sequences in dna, along with a decoding mechanism and error correction? Which came first? You have NO good answer. I fear evolution of the gaps coming on"
Evolution and Natural Selection did NOT produce ANY arbitrary codes. Humans create the codes. And there is no "decoding mechanism and error correction." That is where mutations come from. Cellular Mitosis "splits" the DNA. It does not decode or correct errors. Errors are what is called mutations.
Go study the Theory of Evolution, General Biology, and Genetics. And don't skip any classes young child.
κλείστε το γαμημένο
rmfr
@jnv3
Did your god created human DNA?
If so what objective evidence do you have a god is real?
He can't demonstrate any objective evidence and has admitted this. What's baffling is why he still insists he has any logical argument for a deity when it's clear to everyone here that he does not, and they've explained why.
What is it he hopes to achieve one wonders?
The low point and I suspect a large clue to his intransigence, was his hilarious post claiming "You have your logic Sheldon, and I have mine."
Unequivocal proof he doesn't understand even the basic concept or even the dictionary definition of logic. So no wonder he can't properly apply it's principles of validation, and thinks he can ignore the logical fallacies in his claims, yet still assert repeatedly they are rational arguments for a deity.
It's not like he's even tried to offer anything else other than word play and a relentless repetition of his argument from ignorance fallacy , to the point where he's repeating it like some sort of Orwellian mantra.
Science does not know X, therefore God is the answer to X.
How many different ways can you explain this is the very definition of irrational to him?
In the astronomically unlikely event biology were set to naught over night and evolution entirely falsified, this would evidence a deity at all. I'd remain an atheist as no one could demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity.
Do creationists ever grasp their efforts to decry evolution and related scientific facts is entirely moot to the validity of their beliefs?
It would seem not, which is baffling to me.
You ain't the only one baffled. I caught him lying about me three times, showed him where he lied, and then has the audacity to say I am the one who should stfu. hmm...
rmfr
He has tried to misrepresent what I've said a few times as well. At first I thought he just had a poor grasp of what had been said, but then when i objected and pointed he'd misrepresented my assertion, he completely ignored my response as if nothing had happened.
The correct form would be to acknowledge what he's claimed as erroneous, and then apologise. I think he just rolled on and ignored it because he didn't care that he'd lied about what I'd said.
Wow old man unhinged, the nastiness of godless posters on display.
If I repeat my questions it’s because you can’t see the conundrum you’re in.
First off there is not enough time in the age of the universe for a functional protein to magically appear, let alone hundreds in existence today. And funny how cells ability to code and error correction evolved at the same time!!! I am stunned by this lucky coincidence!!! Aren’t you?
Oh and those pesky sequences(aka:code) were made by man? Man created them? Ha ha oh my
There are many cell biologists on record who see macro evolution as s fraud btw.
You keep avoiding the well-known fact that RNA can appear naturally, without any intelligence involved and that RNA can code for proteins. That answers your question in your OP. Why do you keep arguing when your question has been answered under your terms?
"First off there is not enough time in the age of the universe for a functional protein to magically appear, let alone hundreds in existence today."
You keep making this straw man claim but no except you is implying magic is the cause of anything. Beyond that it's hard to believe anyone can't see the stupidity in claiming something that manifestly has happened, is impossible.
You can't offer any evidence or any explanation for your goddidit using supernatural power claim. So lets take a look at the definition of magic
noun
1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
Show one post from any atheist here claiming anything has a supernatural cause?
" I am stunned by this lucky coincidence!!! Aren’t you?"
No, but then I know what an argument from incredulity fallacy is, you apparently don't.
"There are many cell biologists on record who see macro evolution as s fraud btw."
Not there aren't, only crackpot creationists. No one has scientifically validated a single solitary piece of evidence that falsifies evolution.
Ever hear of project Steve?
https://ncse.com/project-steve
"NCSE's "Project Steve" is a tongue-in-cheek parody of a long-standing creationist tradition of amassing lists of "scientists who doubt evolution" or "scientists who dissent from Darwinism."
Creationists draw up these lists to try to convince the public that evolution is somehow being rejected by scientists, that it is a "theory in crisis." Not everyone realizes that this claim is unfounded. NCSE has been asked numerous times to compile a list of thousands of scientists affirming the validity of the theory of evolution. Although we easily could have done so, we have resisted. We did not wish to mislead the public into thinking that scientific issues are decided by who has the longer list of scientists!
Project Steve pokes fun at this practice and, because "Steves" are only about 1% of scientists, it also makes the point that tens of thousands of scientists support evolution. And it honors the late Stephen Jay Gould, evolutionary biologist, NCSE supporter, and friend.
We'd like to think that after Project Steve, we'll have seen the last of bogus "scientists doubting evolution" lists, but it's probably too much to ask. We hope that when such lists are proposed, reporters and other citizens will ask, "How many Steves are on your list!?""
You didn't even bother with a BS list, just asserted there were "many" scientists, pretty funny, but standard fare for creationists sorry. It's hard not to laugh and roll my eyes at this level of delusion.
@ JNV3
Don't fucking misrepresent me you liar.
" Oh and those pesky sequences(aka:code) were made by man? Man created them? Ha ha oh my
I did not say that: I said :
and, because you don't read posts that expose your fraudulent argument, or maybe, you are too dense to comprehend:
So you are a fucking liar as well as dense as several layers of pigshit. Don't repeat that mistake.
"There are many cell biologists on record who see macro evolution as a fraud btw
Who? Names and published papers please.
You have repeated your ridiculous and fraudulent claims ad nauseum on this thread. Numerous posts have debunked your very unoriginal idea. Yet you persist, you realise that you need help? You have heard of "Idee fixee"? you should go look it up and then talk to someone outside your church as you seem to be hanging your entire faith on a woefully wrong basis.
And stop lying.
Did you mean “self-replicating systems of RNA molecules have not been found in nature”
Google knows that
@ jnv3
And I love how retarded you are. You do not even know how to punctuate correctly (I corrected the above).
Evidently google does not know everything for “self-replicating systems of RNA molecules” have been found in nature. Perhaps you need more practice with your Search-Fu.
You mean the one where you lie and misrepresent what we write, then we confront you about it, and all you have to say is tell us to shut the fuck up?
And you just contradicted yourself since there are hundreds, if not thousands, of functional proteins in existence. Have you ever gone to a real school? Or, were you home schooled by a mentally defficient theistic mother and/or father? Have you even left home? Or are you still in your parent's basement?
The Earth is about 4.55 Ga old. The first life appeared about 3.78 Ga ago. That is a difference of only 770 Ma after the Earth first started accreting, then suffered the giant impact that created our moon. In a cosmological scale, 770 Ma is very quick.
As to how the first life got to be where it could leave fossil records for us to find is still unknown. Go study the Hypothesis of Abiogenesis.
Cells do NOT code, nor do they error check. Go to a real school and quit skipping classes.
No. I am not stunned. As my favoritest hero Mr. Spock would say (***lifting one eyebrow***), "Fascinating."
Well, Old Man really let you have it about lying about what he had written...
And you fail to notice for everyone wo decides to accept that schizophrenic dissociative delusion, there another 50 who accept evolution as FACTS (Formulated Accurately Codified Truth in Science) instead of FAITH (Falsehoods Assumptions Innuendos Treachery and Hogwash).
Sometimes I wished I had the lack of integrity like jnv3 and could lie about everything I say or write. Actually it could be fun, but as I said, I do not suffer the lack of integrity as jnv3 does.
J N Vanderbilt III, you are a liar of most base of humanity. You lie about what people say and write, and when they confront you about your lies, you have nothing to say but, "I am ignoring any further post by you so you may as well shut the fuck up."
Hey, Nyarlathotep. Could this be construed as "bullying?"
jnv3, you are one of the worst examples humanity has to offer. Right along with all the other Religious Absolutists.
You know. Now that I think of it. Why could not those "aliens" who did those cattle mutilations instead do it with the Religious Absolutists. They'd be doing humanity a double favor.
Again, my challenge, weasel.
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui negat.
That is Latin for “he who says he does not have the burden of proof lies.” And this is something ALL you Religious Absolutists truly lie about… Your favorite tactic is to turn the burden of proof around by saying, “Then prove God does not exist.” Pathetic cop-out which only a childish and spoiled brat would resort to in a discussion. Funny how that also describes all Religious Absolutists. Childish, spoiled brats.
Formal Challenge: Either provide objective hard empirical evidence to back up your claim that DNA was formed by an intelligent entity, or admit you are wrong.
And remember this: If it cannot be falsified or verified, then it is not evidence.
rmfr
Wow all that typing ignored totally by me,
This is comical
You atheists out there still marveling at all the magical mutations that made your magical macro evolution possible? And your functional impossibility of creation of proteins?
One of my favorite stories is how fish came out of the water to live on land (over time of course) and turn into philosophers
Your dream is fraught w desperate problems I’m afraid
Ignore this. We catch you lying about our posts, we point it to you, then just tell us to shut the fuck up. Indeed.
It is you who needs to shut the fuck up. Liar.
rmfr
@ JNV3
I say again: You have repeated your ridiculous and fraudulent claims ad nauseum on this thread. Numerous posts have debunked your very unoriginal idea. Yet you persist, you realise that you need help? You have heard of "Idee fixee"? you should go look it up and then talk to someone outside your church as you seem to be hanging your entire faith on a woefully wrong basis.
And stop lying.
Pages