AJ777: “How can religion be evil without objective morality?”

Especial Note: I use the pronoun "you" in the plural sense. I am using to signify ALL Religious Absolutists, not just a single person.

MORALITY IS SUBJECTIVE. Unquestionably. Completely. Utterly. Absolutely. There is no such thing as objective/absolute morality. No matter how hard you argue the contrary, morality shall forever be subjective. Morality is subjective to each individual. Even if you try to pawn off the argument of a deity instilling objective/absolute morality, THAT morality is still SUBJECTIVE in accordance to that deity. In fact, in that case, the morality is no longer morality; instead, they are commands for enslavement, servility, bondage, enthrallment, subjugation, vassalage, choose your word. However, it still ultimately boils down to enslaving oneself to an imaginative Sky Faerie and Magic Zombie Virgin.

According to my world view, the fact that you have different beliefs and views than I do is not wrong. What is wrong in my world view is that you Religious Absolutists feel it is your moral imperative to force your beliefs system onto others who refuse to believe your bullshit. What is wrong in my world view is that you Religious Absolutists firmly believe that ALL humans are worthless, sick, immoral, wicked demons. That none can be good, moral, ethical, and treat others as being worthy of being treated as equals without some form of Sky Faerie and/or Magic Lich Virgin telling them how to live their lives and what they can and cannot think. Most Religious Absolutists believe I deserve to be tortured by having my flesh seared off my bones and regrown only to be burnt off again and again and again for all eternity if I do not believe the same way they do. As if the threat of your Hell makes your bullshit smell any sweeter. And obversely, as if your enticement of Heaven is any sweeter. Read “Is Heaven Really Good?” and “From Whence Comes Evil and Sin” and “Who Sends Who to Hell?” All are just as applicable to Islam as Christianity and all religion.

In my world view, I can ascertain and evaluate what is truth. “How do I determine truth?” you may ask. Simple, with objective hard empirical evidence, logical and deductive reasoning and analysis, rational and analytical thought, critical thinking, cogitation, empathy and sympathy, and reasonable arguments.

How do you determine truth? Simple, you run to an obsolete Bronze and Iron Age religious text full of pure savage immorality.

I can look at anything, and say, “that is right,” or “that is wrong.” But according to your world view, or should I say according to that obsolete and irrelevant Bronze and Iron Age text, I am incapable of determining what is right or wrong, good or evil, truth or lie. You cannot seem to derive any reason of your own to think anything is wrong except by what your book tells you. “That is depressing to say the least,” said Godless Cranium, to which I wholly agree. It is so sad...

Religious Absolutists are clearly incapable of defending their moral beliefs without relying on some other immoral religious texts. Moral beliefs should be defended and explained by rationality and reasoning.

Why is it that you feel that ONLY you can make an account for what is right or wrong? In your world view, how exactly can you know what is absolutely true? You saying that an obsolete and irrelevant and savagely immoral religious text tells you, makes no sense to me whatsoever. And relying on that obsolete and irrelevant and savagely immoral religious text also informs me that you have purposefully mentally retarding your mental faculties to the point that you are incapable of thinking for yourself.

You seem to be telling me that you can look at an event and intuitively know what is truth or lie, or right or wrong, or good or evil, just because you have memorized an obsolete religious text, or memorized only that which you have cherry-picked out of it. Yet I see Religious Absolutists doing the most heinous crimes, such as the rape and molestation of children, blowing up innocent people, past and current, at least once a month in the news. It seems I can never turn on the news without seeing a story, once a month, about a priest having raped and/or molested children, or a fanatic blowing up innocent people. And these news stories have been going on for the last three to four decades. Then you wonder why I no longer watch the news.

There are myriad different Religious Absolutist divisions (30,000 to 42,000 in all the Abrahamic religions!), and none seem to agree on how to interpret your obsolete texts. Yet, you want me to believe that you know the ultimate truth in any given situation. Why should I not be able to form an opinion on what is right and what is wrong? You Religious Absolutists do it all the time. Even if it goes against your obsolete texts. What makes you so damned privileged? As Christopher Hitchens once said (paraphrased), “Since it is preposterous to believe all religions are true, the only final answer is that they are all wrong.”

How do you Religious Absolutists determine that raping someone, or beating someone in the street is wrong when your Bible is full of rape and murder and genocide and torture and abuse and slavery? Justifying any kind of violence is easy using your religious texts. Especially if you buy into William Lane Craig’s bullshit known as Divine Command Morality.

Divine Command Morality. The belief you Religious Absolutists and Apologists hold onto that says that anything your God commands is good AND moral, regardless of its actual moral implications. This is the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever heard. I found these two formal definitions for Divine Command Morality: “Morality is dependent upon God, and that moral obligation consists in obedience to God’s commands.” And from Wikipedia: “A meta-ethical theory which proposes that an action’s status as morally good is equivalent to whether it is commanded by God.” In other words, if “God” tells you to perform an ethnic genocidal cleansing, then it is morally good. To which I would say, BULLSHIT! And you have the audacity to ask, “How can religion be evil without objective morality?”

<Admins/Mods: Gloves are off> You stupid assholes and retarded morons have the gall to claim that Satanism is evil when all they are doing is just imitating what your Sky Faerie told the Hebrews to do. Blood sacrifices and burnt offerings… Do not ever come to my doorstep claiming you have “the good word.” Even Jesus (who never existed) was a hypocritical ass-wipe. Muhammad (whose existence I also question) was nothing more than a thieving, lying, child molesting war lord. All Abrahamic religious texts are nothing more than guidelines on how to live the most immoral life possible. <Admins/Mods: Gloves are back on>

How I reason that raping or beating someone is wrong, is because I can sympathize with the victim. I can even empathize with the victim, because even I got my ass whooped in the street once for no other reason than my car died in the wrong part of town, and for nothing more than what I did not have in my wallet.

I do not want to live in a biblical-based society full of rape and violence because I want to be safe. I desire for my friends, my family, and my loved ones to be the safest they can be within human possibility by having laws that help to protect them from rape and assault and torture and enslavement. Especially to fignation of imagiment. I believe that ALL human beings have integrity, dignity, and worth. I do not need a silly Sky Faerie to tell me that. I can arrive at that truth with my own cognitive abilities. Should I list them again? Empathy, rationality, logic, reason, deduction, critical thinking, sympathy, analytical thought, and the greatest one of all, LOVE.

I cannot think of anyway how I shall ever understand why you Religious Absolutists find this so hard to comprehend. Such is just one of myriad reasons I find ALL religions like yours so damned repugnant and disgusting and nothing more than Pure Evil. It teaches me that I cannot be good to others without some form of special permission from your Sky Faerie. And, to get that special permission, all I have to do is to kneel and bow down and kiss its ass. This robs me of my self-worth, my dignity, my self-esteem, my mental faculties, my morality, and teaches me that all human beings are wretched and wicked things, needing an imaginative Sky Faerie to heal them. Why is it that you can make judgment calls and dictate what is right and wrong, and I cannot?

As Godless Cranium once said, “If I bought into that argument, I would be just as deluded as all of you.”

Regardless of what any may say, “Morality is subjective.” It has always been subjective, is subjective, and shall forever be subjective. There is no such thing as objective/absolute morality. What you stupid, moronic, idiotic, and retarded megalomaniacal psychotic sociopaths refer to as “objective/absolute morality” is nothing more than the great majority of individual’s subjective morality agreeing with all others as being something “good for the society of all.” Then you deluded maniacs decide that those moral issues which become laws becomes the “objective/absolute moral law” of your imaginative Sky Faerie. Proof not one Religious Absolutist is ever capable of an original thought. And since you know you are incapable of anything original, you do as Heysoos says and steal it like a thief in the night. When you say your imaginative Sky Faerie dictates objective/absolute morality, you are actually saying it is actually dictating tyrannical totalitarian edicts. Not morals. Think Critically about it.

“Why should anyone cede to religion the RIGHT to tell us what is good and what is evil?

If you cannot determine the difference between good and evil, then it is not religion that you lack, it is EMPAHTY.

Why should anyone cede to religion the RIGHT to tell us what we can and cannot think?

The fact that religion has nothing else to contribute to human wisdom and knowledge is no reason to hand religion a free license to dictate what is good, what is evil, and what anyone can and cannot think.

ARAKISH”

Finally, AJ777, where is your OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE for the presupposed assumptions you have been spewing like diarrhea? Until you can do so, then everything you have posted is summarily dismissed as hearsay.

rmfr

See this post: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/how-can-religion-be-evil?page=21#comment-134945.

rmfr

Read your fking bible. Evil: profoundly immoral and wicked.
Killing innocent men, women, and children is evil. The Christian god of the bible is an evil asshole for killing over 25 million of them.

AJ777: “I told you the truth that we both are sinners, and evil.”

And where do you get off saying anything about me when you know nothing about me. Your statement is fallacious in that it should be stated thusly: AJ777 speaking for himself, "I told you the truth that I am a sinner, and evil."

This is what makes religion Pure Evil. Remember my post of the mental disorders that religion can cause?

Go read it again: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/how-can-religion-be-evil?page=5#comment-133787

Here is a fact I have not revealed to anyone on these forums. I actually passed the test to be licensed as a psychological therapist, specifically focusing in persons who have left religion and dealing with the mental disorders it can cause.

Although I call it Religious Stigmata Traumatized Disorder, others are calling it Religious Trauma Syndrome.

You, my friend, are traveling a very dark path. Quit being a Religious Borg, unplug, take the red pill, and see reality for what it truly is.

AJ777: “You seem to have an emotional problem with religion and can’t be serious when you say christianity has no factual history.”

I shall admit my emotions are part of my problem with religion. However, my problem with ALL religion stems from the FACTS (Formulated Accurately Codified Truth in Science) that using my mental faculties of critical thinking, logical and deductive reasoning, and rational and analytical thought that ALL religion REQUIRES FAITH (Falsehoods Assumptions Innuendos Treachery and Hogwash). In other words, there is no truth, facts, logic, or rationality in any religion.

And yes, when I think of what religion truly stands for, my emotions are going to get involved. I LOVE all humans, for all humans have integrity, dignity, and worth. Although it may seem that I am arguing against you, I am not. I am arguing against the evil that religion has done to you.

And it is sad and depressing that you cannot see that truth.

rmfr

@ AJ777

can’t be serious when you say christianity has no factual history.

There is factual history supported by myriads of documents that various forms of christianity have existed since the turn of the 2nd Century CE.
If your phrase is trying to impute that there is any contemporary evidence at all for the life and death of a Jesus figure as described in the gospels your are wrong, not only wrong but deluded. Stop lying.