Hi. I'm new here, and got maybe boring question, how to talk to religious ppl, I was born atheist (duh :p) and brought up to think whatever i think, I studied religion, and wow yeah, no :p
I used to be maybe aggressively asking alot of questions, when someone said: I believe in jesus god etc, and their answers are pretty much always some weird quotes. Is there any way to come through them? sorry bad english :)
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@Lisa ….
Greetings and welcome...…
To give you my answer …… assuming what you mean by "Is there any way to come through them?",... is actually ," Is there any way to get through to them?" …..
Then I have to say no..... all you can hope to accomplish is to ask such questions as will lead them to ask their own questions....
This may be a good thing ,for it stops us becoming proselytizers ….. preventing us from becoming what we detest in theists.
If on the other hand you actually mean ," Is there any way to come through them?"..... then I recommend a cutlass ….. (this is just a joke...….honestly...)
Seriously ...in matters such as these , we can only plant seeds..... point out directions ….. perhaps inform and educate where we find misconceptions and or errors …….. but in the end it is down to them to seek change on their own account . After all would you change your opinions on the say-so of someone else ?.
HOW TO TALK TO RELIGIOUS PEOPLE:
It all depends on time and place.
I just spent four hours on a flight from the Philippines to Manila with a very nice man and his wife. As it turns out the man is a preacher and was on a week long mission to the Philippines to help the little children.
Long story short, we did the social amenities stuff, travel duration, jobs, where we live in Korea, did I like Korean food, and then the wife chimed in. "Are you Christian?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"Well, I was when I was younger but to explain it would take a long discussion over a cup of coffee and we would have to know about Tacitus, Pliny the Younger,
Caecilius, Origin, the 6 original texts of Paul and the discrepancies of the Gospels. I'm just not religious. The wife looked at me as if she did not understand a word I was saying. The husband looked at me and knew exactly what I had said. He said, "Well you seem to be a really nice person." I thanked him and told him that he seemed to be very kind and I was sure all the children he helped would appreciate and remember him. He went on to talk about the other 4 pastors who were on the trip with him Service came, we both ordered some water and soon fell asleep; Upon parting, the man did offer up the ole. "God Bless You." To which I responded, "And good luck to you too."
This is how I do it on a crowded airplane with a very nice man, who happens to be a believer, and his wife, who apparently hasn't a clue.
Seriously, this just isn't the place to engage in a theological discussion. If I were invited over for coffee with the purpose of discussing theology, the situation would be different. This was just a man with his wife on a crowded plane.
So my response ---- "Timing is everything. Discussions should be situational
and appropriate.
@Lisa
Greetings and felicitations.
Personally, I just cut to the chase and insult them because they insult us when they ask us to believe in the bull shit that they believe in. I find that this saves a lot of time.
I find that religtards are either brain-dead or brain-washed. Either way, it's not possible to get through to them.
Religtards, especially christards, have done a lot of harm to humanity over the centuries that they have existed. They 'claim' to be about peace, love, understanding and acceptance. Yet, it has been estimate that christards have murdered between 100 - 200 million souls in an attempt to force their particular brand of madness on the world. This number does not include the additional millions that they raped, pillaged, tortured and enslaved. FFS, even Hitler 'only' managed to murder 10 million people and he was considered to be one of the most evil people that ever lived. christard priests still do a lot of harm in that they rape our children and are subsequently protected by their church. How many minds have been ruined by the illogical belief in lard ass in heaven and his zombie boy son?
Does it not say in the babble that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god? and yet, the richest entity on the planet is the cat licker church which is so rich, it doesn't know how rich it is. It owns vast tracts of land, buildings, as well as precious gems, metals and art work.
The church of England is probably the richest institution in the UK. It's head, the very daft twat justin welby, once spoke out about pay day lenders especially a company called Wonga. It then transpired that a large slice of the shares in Wonga's holding company was actually owned by the church of England.
@ Lisa
Whenever I am in town walking about, I sometimes get accosted by those Jehovah Witnesses that hand out the Watchtower and that other magazine I think is called Awake!. Almost always they are also carrying their Bible. When they ask if I want their magazines, I simply reply, "You know, if you were to truly read that Bible and think critically about what you reading, you would know those magazines are full of horse hoowhee." They then just look at me with that "Huh?" look, then I walk away.
As for the debates I participate in from time to time, I can spend months in preparation, depending upon when the debate is to occur. So far, the team I am part of has had three wins and no losses in the audience votings. The leader of our team read the first book I published and asked me to join. His reason, "We need a bulldog, or pit bull, who is not afraid to speak his mind, irregardless if it offends the religious." And that is the way I am. I could care less if anything I say or write offends anyone because the problem does not lie with me, it lies with the person who takes offense. "Only YOU have the power to give a word, phrase, sentence, number the power to offend YOU!"
As Cognostic said, "Timing is also everything."
Most often, I will start off gentle and nice, but eventually I do work around to being that bulldog/pit bull and can get nasty in destroying a person's ideas. I have seen too much harm and violence and abuse and damage caused by religion, ANY religion, over the 55+ years I have been alive to be a nice guy anymore. To the religious who whines like a little baby about offense, I repeat what Stephen Fry once said, “It’s very common to hear people say, ‘I’m rather offended by that.’ As if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually nothing more … than a whine. ‘I find that offensive.’ It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. ‘I am offended by that.’ Well, so fucking what.”
Well I am quitting now, else I'll get on a 200 page rant.
rmfr
Unfortunately, most of the time it is as productive as talking to a brick wall. Not worth it, just walk away.
But if I do get into such a silly scenario, I will reveal I am an ordained priest of The Church of the Latter-Day Dude. Then things will quickly get silly.
FYI Lisa, you can do it yourself for free, found at https://dudeism.com/ordination/
My approach is quite simple. Maintain diplomacy until one of the following happens:
[1] The supernaturalist begins posturing as being in a better position to know what you think than you do yourself;
[2] The supernaturalist begins subjecting you to duplicitous canards that you know are duplicitous canards that have previously been destroyed;
[3] The supernaturalist engages in manifest abuse of the basic rules of discourse, or presents assertions that you know not only to be wrong, but dishonest.
If any of the above appear in the conversation, the gloves come off.
@Lisa Re: "How to talk to religious ppl?"
Well, based on what we have seen around here lately, I would suggest slowly and use small words.
@ Tin-Man Re: "Small Words"
Ain't that the damn truth. I have even begun to use smaller words since most theists seem incapable of understanding big words.
Very good advice.
rmfr
Lisa, if you choose to talk with them about a/theism, do it in whatever way YOU find comfortable. If you begin to feel uncomfortable, you can end the conversation (they get to do the same). You don’t have to talk with anyone about it at all if you don’t want to. It’s entirely up to you.
My only pieces of advice would be to make it a conversation - if your expectation is that they listen to you, then you should reciprocate, listening to them too.
The second piece of advice is, if you choose to discuss a/theism with someone, think about why...what do you want the result to be? Do you want to plant a seed of doubt? Do you hope to gain respect? Are you trying to change their mind? Do you want to belittle them? Will the way you talk with them result in success? That’s all you need to decide.
And bear in mind that whenever you are talking religion, science, history or the weather with theists, from their point of view, their god is listening in and noting their responses. It can be akin to asking a North Korean peasant if he is truly happy while officers of the Korean State Security Department stand by within earshot. The answers you get may not be completely honest. Just my two cent rant.
Point, and laugh a lot.
Sorry, my wife and I just finished a very nice Rioja.
It's important to communicate how risible their beliefs are, no gain without pain and all that.
Sorry again, I had a couple of Vodkas after the Rioja.
@OP
Ummm...you could just talk to them like a normal human being. Maybe sympathize alittle bit. Maybe offer your perspective and ask questions. ??? If what you are saying makes sense, then the theist will listen.
It’s not like theists speak a different language...or do they?
"If what you are saying makes sense, then the theist will listen."
hahhahahhahahahhahahahahaha, good one. You have seen the thread with that idiot creationist Vanderbilt III right?
"It’s not like theists speak a different language...or do they?"
Unfortunately, almost all do. From my experience, they shotgun you with myriads of presupposed assertions that require making them (incredibly difficult) back up and prove each and every step of their argument. For example, "god sent jesus to die for your sins" is attempting to force me to immediately assume a "god", that "jesus" existed, that he died for me, and that I am born a "sinner". It also presupposes that they actually know the mind of god and that the bible is actually valid and inspired by this god.
@ David
Another graphic I saw somewhere on the WWW (paraphrased), "God sent its only son to die for our sins without asking our permission and demands our worship or we go to eternal torture and torment." Nice, asshole god.
rmfr
Indeed, that thread is practically a masterclass in identifying supernaturalist evasion and discoursive duplicity. 20 scientific paper citations and at least one full exposition of another paper, and his response was to pretend that the data had no effect upon his biologically illiterate assertions.
That individual is the sort who could be shown the experiments in question by the scientists themselves, and be given a free course in what those experiments mean by the same scientists, and he'd still come away peddling the same lame excuses, evasions and outright fabrications.
When faced with mendacity on that level, my favoured response involves asking if I can borrow an M1 Abrams for a few hours ...