I'm having quite a difficult time lately debating with others over the whole religion topic in general. Last night I had quite a discussion over the existence of the Christian god. It continued for quite some time about how its Ironic that Atheist's celebrate Christmas, which is kinda funny since most traditions in Christmas are from paegans an not actually christian background. But, after every point I seemed to deliver they just ignored it and tried to advance to a different point, which I always rebutted. It seems out of all the people I've discussed with, no one really listened to the points and facts being provided, beside the other two debating on my side. One which being a Atheist and other being a Buddhist. So I'm wondering if its even worth the time to debate with these people?
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While tiring at times i do "believe" it is. Though we can get stuck in the port of entry trying to get through to a person who is closed-minded it is of "import". You see as ignorant and gullible as some theist can be it does make it hard to get them to use their noggin, ironic in some cases because in for example some religions they are told to use their gifts given to them by God and while fully convinced they have been given a plethora of gifts including hands, ears, eyes, plant sand herbs, to use, apparently the brain is not one of them and fruit of knowledge is just Knowledge. You see, dealing with a closed mind is futile until it is willing to be open. Ironically I have been told many times by theist that I have a closed mine because I refuse to believe in their god.
Many theist lack a true understanding of scientific practice and the ideas of proof and evidence it is always a good idea to establish these concepts from the beginning, Afterwitch, with our concoctions brewing in their heads we will have to contend dealing with the in many cases robust sense of denial as they go through the learning process that their holy text and beliefs are not based on sound logic or fundamental evidence or proof. Extremely brainwashed cases will begin to even lash out at you as will be regarded as agents of the devil here to test their freewill and faith. Keep in mind that old habits die hard and people have been believing their beliefs in many cases for their entire lives.
Is it worth it, I will answer with a question that's not a question; Does religion based on outdated text influence the world we live in.
well put zaphod
i don't think I could have said it better
The obstinacy that stems from childhood indoctrination can be strong. I think you’ll notice for many people it takes years of reading and research before they conclude religion for the hoax it is. Just try to help them on their journey to learn the facts they need, expecting immediate agreement is not realistic.
I mean I wasn't expecting them to agree with me right on the spot. Just like leave the discussion with some new information to get you thinking about the topic. Its just I've had one person who tuned into these conversations several times. They don't remember any of the previous information I've told them, and just goes through one ear and right out the other. I can't grasp the concept on how they repeatedly tune in, then just forget all the stuff I said before.
Often it's because they are not, in fact, listening to what you are saying. Instead, while you are talking, they are thinking of what they want to say next.
Like they would basically list something off, I rebutted it with facts or citations from the bible which is wrong. (Unicorns, living inside a whale, flat earth, etc) But instead of trying to defend it, they just listed off another fact. Like what is the point of starting a discussion if you don't even want to learn from it?
They just listed off another bogus thing which I would counter again with facts*
It can be frustrating, they actually pride themselves in their ignorance. You might enjoy watching some of the call in shows at the Atheist Experience from Austin, Texas. They have about 895 or so shows you can watch as they debate theist callers. You can watch them on Youtube, I find them entertaining. Matt Dillahunty is a fun debater to watch.
yea start
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGuVZmUVwcM
sometimes in a conversation i wish I have that button to put people on hold lol
It is so much needed
That is one of my favorite episodes, Matt and Darrel Ray do a great job of calling the guy on the morality accusations.
One thing to remember is that you are very unlikely to change the mind of the person you are debating. However, you very may well get through to one of the people observing the debate. I remember one time I was listening to a friend of mine talk about his lack of belief in god to some co-workers. I was not a part of the conversation at all, but listening to the debate helped push me over the edge and cast off the last remnants of belief in god that I had. So, even if you feel like you're not getting anywhere with the person you're debating, you very well could be changing someone else's life.
This, exactly. Let go of the idea that convincing your opponent is the ultimate goal. The silent, lurking audience is more important and more numerous. This is where the proverbial seeds you plant can flourish in ways you may never see or know.
yea god is watching(zuut) and that is why he is an atheist too :P
A religion? No, not really. Religions aren't something that can be reasoned with in the traditional sense. The religious? Yes, that is where we need to focus. It is only when religions are affected in numbers and donations that they start changing.
In order to debate with a religious person, you would first have to find a religious person who understands what a debate is.