JoC: The Filicidal and Homicidal Psychopath

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arakish's picture
JoC: The Filicidal and Homicidal Psychopath

@ JoC

Sorry. No secret discussion here.

First, I have to say that the Exodus never happened. There is absolutely no evidence of it ever occuring. Read my short treatise: The Exodus That Went Nowhere.

However, that is not the point of this nasty turd of your god. Let's just assume that the book of Exodus is true...

First, your god causes the problem, then throws down curses on those to whom it was actually the problem.

Let’s see about your god’s morality. In Exodus, it is your god that hardens Pharaoh’s heart, then your god punishes all of Egypt because Pharaoh has a hardened heart that your god gave him in the first place. WTFH?

  1. Exodus 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart…
  2. Exodus 7:13 And He hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  3. Exodus 7:22 …and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened…
  4. Exodus 8:15 …He hardened his [Pharaoh] heart…
  5. Exodus 8:19 …and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened…
  6. Exodus 9:7 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened…
  7. Exodus 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh…
  8. Exodus 9:35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened…
  9. Exodus 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go to Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart…
  10. Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  11. Exodus 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  12. Exodus 11:10 …and the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  13. Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote [killed] all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. Definitive Proof your God is a filicidal and infanticidal psychopath.
  14. Exodus 14:1,4 {1}And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying… {4}And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart…
  15. Exodus 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt…
  16. Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians…
  17. Exodus 14:27 …and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.

What the hell kind of morality is that? God causes the problem in the first place, then punishes them for the very thing it is causing. If that does not make your god a maniacal psychopath, then please explain what it does make it? That is the most fucked up morality I have ever seen. Your god creates and causes the problem, then punishes them. This alone is proof that your God is an immoral filicidal and homicidal psychopath.

rmfr

EDIT: converted >ul< into >ol< for auto-counting

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Cognostic's picture
And then he kills all the

And then he kills all the first born kids and anyone else who gets in the way. The God of the Bible is an asshole. And if you disagree we will send a plague to kill your wife, mother, father, children and neighbors, because we were formed in the image of God.

Randomhero1982's picture
I actually thought JoC had

I actually thought JoC had lost the plot and went on a spree when I saw the topic....

arakish's picture
Well. I guess JoC is going

Well. I guess JoC is going to wait until after the holidays to answer. Perfectly fine and understandable.

Happy Holidays JoC.

rmfr

JoC's picture
Happy Holidays! Yeah. You got

Happy Holidays! Yeah. You got it right. Happy New Year too.

JoC's picture
This is a good one.

This is a good one. Noteworthy though is how when people used to read this, they never took it to mean that God caused Pharaoh to not listen to Moses. Instead, people have always taken this to mean that Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

We do have from 7:3 that God will harden Pharaoh's heart. True again in 7:13 and 7:22, his heart was hardened yet the text is silent on who did this. Later in the text, it is clear who hardened Pharaoh's heart. In Exodus 8:15, 8:32 and 9:34, it was Pharaoh himself who hardened his own heart by "sinning yet again".

Christopher Wright, an Old Testament scholar points out (and I'll write his words)

"Pharaoh hardened his heart eight times before we read of God's involvement again. In other words, the sequence is clearly Pharaoh's own stiffening resolve to reject the requests of Moses and the advice of his counselors. Altogether we read that Pharaoh hardened his heart twelve times, whereas God is the subject six times, and five of these are towards the end of the story when Pharaoh's resistance has become irrevocable."

One can read the text and assume that God actively did something to harden Pharaoh's heart though one could say that God could do this by not doing anything at all - like how you can make a spoiled brat more miserable by leaving him alone and not doing anything. One could say that God hardened Pharaoh's heart by letting him do it by himself and obviously Pharaoh hardened his heart by "sinning yet again".

There is another way to read into this which I find compelling. It looks into the common themes in Exodus and other Old Testament books which seems to be stressing that God is in control of everything. It's quite possible that when the author wrote these, he was using a literary device to show his purpose - Not literally true but expresses another truth.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ JoC

@ JoC

And welcome back. King and Lord Emperor of the apologists.
"Pharaoh hardened his heart eight times before we read of God's involvement again. In other words, the sequence is clearly Pharaoh's own stiffening resolve to reject the requests of Moses and the advice of his counselors. Altogether we read that Pharaoh hardened his heart twelve times, whereas God is the subject six times, and five of these are towards the end of the story when Pharaoh's resistance has become irrevocable."

I think you have been condemned, and your "god" by your own quotations JoC.. Do the math, if not the story.

Diotrephes's picture
JoC,

JoC,

Why did the Pharaoh rescue Jerusalem from the Babylonians, thereby saving the Jews?

Sheldon's picture
Exodus 9:12

Exodus 9:12

"And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses."

It doesn't require a subjective interpretation to define it's meaning as the opposite of what it says, that's asinine.

arakish's picture
@ JoC

@ JoC

Welcome back dude. Hope your days of celebration went well.

However...

You and Christopher Wright have been busted. Again, here is the list with the times God hardened Pharoah's heart highlighted. I trust you can count?

  1. Exodus 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart…
  2. Exodus 7:13 And He hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  3. Exodus 7:22 …and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened…
  4. Exodus 8:15 …He hardened his [Pharaoh] heart…
  5. Exodus 8:19 …and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened…
  6. Exodus 9:7 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened…
  7. Exodus 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh…
  8. Exodus 9:35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened…
  9. Exodus 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go to Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart…
  10. Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  11. Exodus 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  12. Exodus 11:10 …and the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
  13. Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote [killed] all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. Definitive Proof your God is a filicidal and infanticidal psychopath.
  14. Exodus 14:1,4 {1}And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying… {4}And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart…
  15. Exodus 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt…
  16. Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians…
  17. Exodus 14:27 …and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.

By my count that is 12 times your Sky Faerie did it, versus only 4 times it is not specifically stated. However, what are implications here? The implications are that since your Sky Faerie did the hardeneing 3 out of 4 times that your Sky Faerie is automatically inferred to be guilty of doing it everytime. If your Sky Faerie is so malevolent and hateful and spiteful and petty so as to do the hardening 12 times out of 16, then it is a safe bet to infer your Sky Faerie did it all 16 times.

Re-read the quote you posted (and as Old Man highlighted as I am doing)...

Pharaoh hardened his heart eight times before we read of God’s involvement again. In other words, the sequence is clearly Pharaoh’s own stiffening resolve to reject the requests of Moses and the advice of his counselors. Altogether we read that Pharaoh hardened his heart twelve times, whereas God is the subject six times, and five of these are towards the end of the story when Pharaoh's resistance has become irrevocable.

And Wright says, "twelve times" and "six times." I count 16. Not 18. Even went back to the WEB, NIV, NKJVR, KJV. Still only 16 times total. Hmm... Perhaps Christopher Wright needs to go back to Kindergarten to learn how to count?

Questions: Why is your Sky Faerie so petty and contemptible and abhorrent and despicable and worthless and evil that it felt it had to cause the problem in order to show off its power? Why could not your evil Sky Faerie just have put into Pharaoh's heart to let them go? Why must your evil Sky Faerie do nothing more than show off how megalomaniacal and sadomasochistic it is? Why does your evil Sky Faerie suffer such a horrible case of Inferiority Complex Disorder?

rmfr

EDIT: misspellings and omitted words

JoC's picture
Let's look back at the text.

Let's look back at the text. Even in Exodus 7:3, it simply says God will harden Pharaoh's heart but does not say when.

We agree with the translations of the ff:
Exodus 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart…
Exodus 7:22 …and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened…
Exodus 8:19 …and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened…
Exodus 9:7 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened…
Exodus 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh…
Exodus 9:35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened…
Exodus 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go to Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart…
Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
Exodus 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
Exodus 11:10 …and the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart…
Exodus 14:1,4 {1}And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying… {4}And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart…
Exodus 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt…
Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians…

We disagree with the translations of the ff (I put what my Bible says):
Exodus 7:13 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened
Exodus 8:15 Then Pharaoh hardened his own heart …
Exodus 8:31 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened

Most of the quotes you mentioned, which I believe you're counting, either say Pharaoh's heart was hardened or that God said he would. Only 4 specifically state the God did harden Pharaoh's heart and this is only after he had repeatedly rejected God's warnings by hardening his own heart (or maybe it was hardened by something else). The translation I'm using is one that Catholics use. We don't accept WEB, NIV, NKJVR or KJV.

There is one quote though I would like to ask a sincere question about:

Exodus 14:27 And the fleeing Egyptians met with the waters, and the Lord immersed them in the midst of the waves.

You've stated this to be proof that God is murderous. My question is: given the context, isn't it a good thing that God stopped the Egyptians when He did? Isn't it a common question for atheists that if God could prevent evil, why doesn't He? Isn't this one case where he does prevent evil?

Diotrephes's picture
One of the interesting things

One of the interesting things about the Exodus story is that three seconds after the Israelites left with tons of stolen gold they wanted to go back and live lives of ease on Egyptian welfare. Whenever they got in trouble they always ran to Egypt for protection.

rat spit's picture
I’m wondering. Before freeing

I’m wondering. Before freeing His people from the Egyptians, did the LORD harden other body parts belonging to the Pharaoh? Or did he have to do that himself?

arakish's picture
@ JoC

@ JoC

You only accept the Bible as re-written and re-translated by the Catholics. I do not accept the Bible used by the Catholics for that very reason. The Bible used by the Christians (as being separate from the Catholics) has already been re-written and re-translated so many times there is no truth left in it. And the Catholic version of the Bible is even worse. Why? Because you Catholics have lied to yourselves in what was written in the Bible so damn much, it has made the Catholic Church into the largest crime syndicate on this entire planet. It is bad enough to use A1611KJV. And you Catholics have done nothing but bullshit yourselves with adding and re-translating the A1611KJV with so much crap it led you Catholics into becoming the largest crime syndicate committing the most heinous and abominable crimes against humanity. More so than other organization on this planet.

And you missed the point. Your Sky Faerie is a murderous monster. It has no morality. Your Sky Faerie's morality is no better than the other monster Christianity-Catholicism created known as Satan. Read Job. Your Sky Faerie, just to win a bet, did the most heinous and atrocious crimes against one person.

As far as the Exodus events, if they were true, just proves how monstrously immoral the demon you worship as your "god." Your "god" first causes the problems, then punishes others for the problems it creates. How can that be viewed as morality? Ultimately, it was the demon you worship as "god" that hardened Pharaoh's heart. The Bible says it was your demon that caused the problem. Just so it can be a braggart about its power. For me, that is a most heinous and abhorrent immoral act. If that demon you worship was truly omnibenevolent and omnipotent, it could have just simply put into Pharaoh's heart to release the Hebrews. Instead, your demon had to be malevolent, malignant, rancorous, murderous, vindictive, vicious, vengeful, and evil as it could just to be a braggart.

And if you want more proof, go read this thread: How can religion be evil?. You, my friend, like AJ777, are going down a very dark path. Come back to the light. Unplug and see reality for it truly is.

rmfr

JoC's picture
Well, you must realize that

Well, you must realize that you're talking to a Catholic so if you're to quote from the Bible, a fair way to do so would be to use the translation I use. Now, I never denied that it was said that God hardened Pharaoh's heart because the text does in fact say that. But it only says God did so only after Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

I'm actually very skeptical now more than ever if you actually know the story you keep referring to. When God sent the angel of death to kill every first born, did He not give specific instructions that was available to everyone (Israelites and Egyptians) as to how they are to avoid that from happening at all? In the story, God had given 9 plagues as a warning and the 10th being the death of every first born. However, there was something any Egyptian or Israelite could do to avoid the 10th plague.

The Egyptians simply chose to deny this and so God simply did what He said He'd do. If you read much earlier though, you'll find why the death of the first born male was so significant. In Exodus 1, you'll see a group of people wanting to kill the boys of the Israelites.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Fictional genocide

Fictional genocide apologetics.

arakish's picture
@ JoC

@ JoC

How long were the Hebrews supposedly enslaved in Egypt? How come there are NO words in Hebrew of Egyptian origin? How come there are NO words in Egyptian of Hebrew origin?

How come there is no evidence the Hebrews ever existed before about 800 BCE?

How come the word "Hebrew" is traced back to being of Assyrian origin?

How long were the Hebrews enslaved in Babylon? How come there are NO words in Hebrew of Babylonian origin? How come there are NO words in Babylonian of Hebrew origin?

Can you honestly expect for a people to be enslaved in other countries for hundreds of years yet no words get transferred between the two languages? Just look at American English for an example.

JoC: "Well, you must realize that you're talking to a Catholic so if you're to quote from the Bible, a fair way to do so would be to use the translation I use."

I never said I do not know you are a Catholic. And why should I use the Catholic version of the Bible? It is even more fallacious than the A1611KJV. You may as well be saying that I should use the seven Harry Potter books to prove Harry Potter exists. Remember, the Bible, in all of its fallacious is the claim, not the evidence. And there is no evidence that any story written in the Bible ever happened. None.

Why would I use the same version of the Bible the Catholics have used to become the largest immoral criminal syndicate on the planet? Hell, even the A1611KJV Bible has been used by Christians to create several large immoral criminal syndicates here in the United States.

rmfr

JoC's picture
@arakish

@arakish

We started this thread with your assumption (which I haven't challenged for purposes of debate) that you don't believe the Exodus stories ever happened. I came into this discussion considering that Exodus was simply a story. As such, I'm confining myself to the text. The topic of, "Did this event in the Bible actually happen?" will get us into a whole new rabbit whole.

The question being brought up here is, "Is the God of the Old Testament a murderous entity?" Now, if you read the story from Exodus 1, you'll see the Israelites were enslaved by Egypt and as their numbers grew, Pharaoh saw their threat and was going to "cull" their population by killing their sons - think abortion but forced. And then you have God send Moses to try to convince Pharaoh to release Israel. Then we were talking about who hardened Pharaoh's heart...

"Why would I use the same version of the Bible the Catholics have used to become the largest immoral criminal syndicate on the planet? Hell, even the A1611KJV Bible has been used by Christians to create several large immoral criminal syndicates here in the United States."

- this is an old and tired argument which doesn't actually address anything. Granted all your claims are true (which I'm not saying they are), they don't actually prove the truth or falsity of the claims of Christianity. Think of any ideology you hold. There will be immoral people that hold to that ideology and it does not mean that that ideology is false. Also, this is a great way to shut down a civil dialogue.

CyberLN's picture
JoC, you wrote, “The

JoC, you wrote, “The Egyptians simply chose to deny this and so God simply did what He said He'd do.”

Do you think, given all the powers your god is supposed to have according to your biblical story, that killing babies, any babies, is an acceptable action to take? Do you think the death penalty levied against wee people unable to have or execute a choice in the matter is acceptable? Do you think that telling someone (what amounts to) “do as I say or I’ll kill your children” is acceptable?

Side question: In the story, and / or in your opinion, did these babies go to your hell?

Personally, despite being an evil atheist, I find the action your god took on your story not only unacceptable, but reprehensible as well. I think telling that story to children in your religion’s education programs, and painting it as a good thing, is disgusting. That anyone would choose to organize their lives around a character like that seems completely shocking to me. I just do not understand it and likely never will.

JoC's picture
the Christian understanding

the Christian understanding of God and life is that God gives life. Life comes from Him. As such, He is not obliged to give more or less life than what He wants to give to any one person. so when you say God kills so and so, Christians understand that to mean that God chose to not give life anymore and given that God gave us immortal souls, the understanding is that when this life ends, there is an afterlife where there is no suffering. So comparably, any finite suffering in this world is offset by infinite happiness in the next.

"Side question: In the story, and / or in your opinion, did these babies go to your hell?"

In my honest opinion? No.

CyberLN's picture
JoC: Are you saying that

JoC: Are you saying that your god ‘owns’ your life/body so s/he can do anything s/he wants with it?

JoC's picture
You hear this line a lot from

You hear this line a lot from Christian circles where we say, "Our lives aren't our own." or "We're living on borrowed time." Anyway, to answer your question, let me first clarify my earlier statement.

God is the source of all life.
God freely gives life to whom He wishes.
He is not obliged to give more life than He wishes to give.
If He wishes to get back the life He gave you, it is within His rights.

So, yes, God (technically) owns my life but He has given it to me. And while it's with me, it is I who can do what I want with it. Though He can take it back whenever He wishes.

CyberLN's picture
“So, yes, God (technically)

“So, yes, God (technically) owns my life but He has given it to me. And while it's with me, it is I who can do what I want with it. Though He can take it back whenever He wishes.”

That sounds like a loan, not a gift.

arakish's picture
@ JoC

@ JoC

God is the source of all life.
God freely gives life to whom He wishes.
He is not obliged to give more life than He wishes to give.
If He wishes to get back the life He gave you, it is within His rights.

Perfectly quoted from William Lane Craig, the most horrible immoral monster currently alive today.

That is a perfect summation of how William Lane Craig defines the Divine Command Morality.

If He wishes to get back the life He gave you, it is within His rights.

And this is what makes your Sky Faerie a horrible murderous despotic demon. If it commands it of you, then it is perfectly moral to:

Slaughter of 42 children.
2 Kings {2:23} And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, “Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.” {2:24} And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare [tore apart] forty and two children of them.

This one is definitely a “What the fuck?!” Little children. Little children, which means no older than 10 years, mocks a man for having a bald head. For a bald head! He then curses those little children and your God, your maniacally psychopathic God, sends two female bears to tear 42 of those little children apart. Forty-two little children! Now I ask you, does mocking someone for having a bald head deserve the death penalty? At any age? What kind of morality is this? Oh, I forget, even though He is a sadistic filicidal psychopath, your God is ultimately good. As above, if you can define this as morally good, then what is left to call evil?

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Lot proves the morality of a Godly man.
Genesis {19:4} But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: {19:5} And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them. {19:6} And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, {19:7} And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. {19:8} Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes...

And Lot definitely shows what it is to be a Godly man. “Here, take my two virgin daughters and rape them as you wish.” What the Hell?! You know, I had twin daughters and I would be damned if I decided to give them to a group of men to rape as they wished. This is so God Damned repugnant… If I were in Lot’s shoes, I would have fought those men unto my death. Because they would have to kill me first before they could have anyone in my house to rape as they please. Now that is my morality! Which is superior to your damned God’s morality. Death before compromise.

****************************************

Another “unknown” man shows the morality of a Godly man.
Judges {19:23} And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. {19:24} Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seems good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. {19:25} But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

Another man willing to allow a group of men to rape his virgin daughter. Again, what the Hell?! Another lesson on how to be immoral. However, the man instead gave them his visitor’s concubine and they literally raped her to death. Definitive Godly morality.

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God commands wholesale genocide after genocide, and other extreme atrocities.

Joshua 8:24 − City of Ai.
{8:24} And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword.

Joshua 10:20 − Joshua has all the citizens of five cities slaughtered.
{10:20} And it came to pass, when Joshua and the children of Israel had made an end of slaying them with a very great slaughter, till they were consumed…

Joshua 10:25-26 − Joshua murders five defenseless kings of the Amorites in cold blood.
{10:25} And Joshua said unto them, Fear not, nor be dismayed, be strong and of good courage: for thus shall the LORD do to all your enemies against whom ye fight. {10:26} And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening (the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon).

Joshua 10:28 − City of Makkedah.
{10:28} And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:29-30 − City of Libnah.
{10:29} Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: {10:30} And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:31 − City of Lachish.
{10:31} And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: {10:32} And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.

Joshua 10:33 − City of Gezer.
{10:33} Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining.

Joshua 10:34-35 − City of Elgon.
{10:34} And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him; and they encamped against it, and fought against it: {10:35} And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Lachish.

Joshua 10:37 − City of Hebron.
{10:37} And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein.

Joshua 10:38 − City of Debir.
{10:38} And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it: {10:39} And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining:

Numbers 21:2-3 − City of Hormah.
{21:1} And when king Arad the Canaanite, which dwelt in the south, heard tell that Israel came by the way of the spies; then he fought against Israel, and took some of them prisoners. {21:2} And Israel vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou wilt indeed deliver this people into my hand, then I will utterly destroy their cities. {21:3} And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah

Numbers 21:33-35 − Land of Bashan.
{21:33} And they turned and went up by the way of Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan went out against them, he, and all his people, to the battle at Edrei. {21:34} And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land; and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. {21:35} So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive:

1 Samuel 27:8-9 − Genocide of the Geshurites, Gezirites, and Amalekites.
{27:8} And David and his men went up, and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezirites, and the Amalekites: for those nations were of old the inhabitants of the land, as thou goest to Shur, even unto the land of Egypt. {27:9} And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel, and returned, and came to Achish.

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Numbers 31:1-18 − Mass murder of the Midianite children. Enslavement of the virgins.
{31:1} And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, {31:2} Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people. {31:3} And Moses spoke unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian. {31:4} Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war. {31:5} So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. {31:6} And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand. {31:7} And they waged war against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. {31:8} And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. {31:9} And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. {31:10} And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. {31:11} And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. {31:12} And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho. {31:13} And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. {31:14} And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. {31:15} And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? {31:16} Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. {31:17} Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. {31:18} But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Yeah! Kill them all. But keep the virgins for us to rape! You know how us Christians just love raping and molesting children. More definitive Godly morality.

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In Psalms 137:8-9 − Mass murder of Babylonian babies.
{137:8} O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewards thee as thou hast served us. {137:9} Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes thy little ones against the stones.

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Deuteronomy 22:28-29 − Need a New Wife? Rape a Virgin!
{22:28} If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; {22:29} then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

JoC, you need to wake up and throw those shackles off dude.

rmfr

JoC's picture
You're missing the point

You're missing the point though. If I were to take someone's life by killing them, that would be immoral because that life was not mine to begin with. It's realizing the ownership of the thing. For example, take a simple case of a phone.

If I took your phone from you, that would be immoral and bad because as it is, I don't have the rights to your phone. However, if I lent you my phone (say you wanted to play with some game on it; I don't know) and you're using it fine and all but then I need to take it back. Whatever reason I have for wanting my phone back is a legitimate reason for taking my phone back EVEN IF you haven't finished using my phone.

The Christian understanding of life is that life comes from God and as such He is allowed to give and take life as He sees fit.

We can look at each one of those Biblical passages one by one though I thought we agreed on focusing at least on one (just to avoid the thread from going haywire).

Diotrephes's picture
JoC,

JoC,

"If I took your phone from you, that would be immoral and bad because as it is, I don't have the rights to your phone. However, if I lent you my phone (say you wanted to play with some game on it; I don't know) and you're using it fine and all but then I need to take it back. Whatever reason I have for wanting my phone back is a legitimate reason for taking my phone back EVEN IF you haven't finished using my phone."

Jesus is so disappointed with you that he might hang you over the lake of fire for a couple of minutes.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_giving/mt05_4... 4 pictures.

JoC's picture
Lol. I found this

Lol. I found this entertaining. Though again, you need to take these things in context. Many Bible verses can be misunderstood if you take them as is especially if you take them out of context.

Seen together with Verses 39 through 42, you can see the exaggerated language being used. It's seen time and time again that Jesus does use exaggerated language many times to show his followers a certain point. The point is then expressed starting verse 43.

arakish's picture
JoC: "Many Bible verses can

JoC: "Many Bible verses can be misunderstood if you take them as is especially if you take them out of context."

And what are you Christians doing when you "take verses out of context" that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. Before you start bitching about us "taking out of context," perhaps you should cease doing the same thing.

That is a whiney-ass plea logical fallacy.

rmfr

JoC's picture
And some Christians do take

And some Christians do take some Biblical verses out of context and I would call them out on it as well and I have! That doesn't however, make it okay for everyone else to do so.

Tell me, when have I (I, not other Christians as I cannot control what they do or say) taken a Biblical verse out of its context?

arakish's picture
OK. I got it now. It is

OK. I got it now. It is only OK for Christians to pull verses out of context. Us atheists are just to dumb to know how to properly pull any verse out of context.

Guess our discussions are over.

rmfr

JoC's picture
lol. That's not what I said

lol. That's not what I said and I don't see how what I said can be taken as such. I believe it is you that needs a better grasp of the english language.

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