Lame Objections athe*sts Often Raise. Part I

51 posts / 0 new
Last post
Mutakallim_7's picture
Lame Objections athe*sts Often Raise. Part I

There are some popular lame-ass objections that online teenage athe*sts used to raise against theists. I hope by the end of this post you stop making these non-arguments guys, because they're incontestably inapplicable af wrt to what theists actually say.

The First One: B-b-b bUt eF eVrySing hAz a Cauz, tHEn wHO cAUsEd God? yOu cAnt jUst eNd it wItH God aRbitRariLy

Failures:

1. No theist has ever lived on this planet since God created us has ever said that Everything must have a cause to begin with. It's a myth that ultracrepidarian athe*sts believe with no reference whatsoever to substantiate it. athe*sts have just invented this premise out of thin air because: a) They're too lazy to grab a book and actually read. b) They get their infos from lame-ass online forums like this one. c) They're anti-knowledge af.

2. The whole point of theists argument is that anything either exists through another or not, and as long as you have existence, then there must be a being whose existence is not through another, i.e., not caused. Otherwise you would not have any existence at all. An uncaused being is the only assurance for there to be anything at all. For if there were only beings that exist through another there could not have been anything at all, because if each being would not exist until it receives existence from a precedent existent, then we would end up having all of them in a HOLD state, so to speak, waiting to receive existence from some other existing being. But this would never happen because each one of them would be in this state of waiting-to-be-caused to exist and none would be eventually existent. What could break this HOLD state is that if there were some being that exists on its own without being in need of being brought to existence by something else. It's becoming clear then that we do not say that everything, by the dint of the fact that it exists, must have a cause, rather we say that the mere observation of something that exists necessarily implies the existence of an uncaused being --or what we call a necessary being. There has to be a necessary being for there to be anything at all. Thus the falsity of this athe*stic made-up premise and that who-caused-God bullshit.

3. The actual premise, then, is everything insofar as it is possible/composite/consists of many things/has a beginning/has a quiddity ... etc must have a cause for its existence. And that's how we prove that the universe cannot be that being whose existence is not through another, and that it must be caused to exist by a necessary being. But that's for another topic.

The Second One: B-b-b bUt eVEn eF wE aKsiPt tHe aRgUmEnt iT dosEn pRoov tHe God oF tHe bIBlE exiSts or tHe God of tHe Qur'an eGzist

Failures:

1. This a non-argument as the case with the next one.

2. There is no meaning for this "God of something" crap. It's not that there is a different God that comes in the package of each religion. The right question is "Which religion is true, Islam or Christianity?" and this is not a question about the existence of some God, rather it's a question about an action that has been attributed to God. In the case of Islam for example, sending a prophet called Muhammad and descending a revelation on him is the action that Muslims attribute to the SAME ONE CREATOR WHICH EXISTS NECESSARILY WITHOUT BEING CAUSED AND HAS BROUGHT EVERY BEING OTHER THAN HIM INTO EXISTENCE THAT BOTH CHRISTIANS AND JEWS AND NEARLY ANYONE WITH A SOUND MIND WITH A FULLY FUNCTIONAL BRAIN BELIEVE IN. This is how we differ from each others. Christians deny that God sent a prophet called Muhammad and that he is a fraud, and Muslims do not believe that God has manifested in a man's body and Jesus was only a prophet of God just as Moses, Abraham, Noah, and Muhammad. Thus there is no meaning to ask someone to prove the existence of God-of-someReligion unless you mean by it to prove that certain religion is true.

3. But if this is the case, then this objection is lame. Suppose that such-and-such argument doesn't prove a certain religion is true, so what? Who said that it has to? It wasn't even supposed to. This doesn't even falsify the argument nor does it undermine it. It was only meant to prove that there is a necessary being that created everything else. We prove that then we go on to prove his attributes and whether he had sent so-and-so as a prophet or not and what are the evidence for his prophethood WITH DIFFERENT SET OF ARGUMENTS. It doesn't have to be a Killing-all-birds-with-one-stone situation or else you would fail. We deal with the issue step by step. First we Prove God's existence, then we go on to next step. This is actually like arguing that there has to be a winner in a soccer game because it was a final match, and there are no draws in finals, then some brainlet comes out to you saying "b-b-bUt this dOzen pRoOv wiTcH teEm hAz wOn zA gAim." Wow, what a genius. So what? I Only wanted to prove that there is a winner. And me not proving which team exactly has won the game doesn't undermine my argument nor does it falsify that there is a winner which i could then identify with a different piece of evidence.

The Third One: B-b-b bUt whay it izn't Zeus or zA flAyin SpAgHetTi mOnsta or a sUpEr cOmpUtEr oR evEn a tUrtlE

Failures:

1. Extreme nonsense

2. Rational arguments prove meaning not words. Rational discourse cares essentially about meaning and accidentally about words. words are only a means to convey meaning. So what really matters is the meaning signified by these words. So If by "zeus" and "the flying blah blah blah" you mean what it has been demonstrated by proofs theists have presented i.e., a one necessary being that was never been caused to exist and is the cause of everything else that exists and have power over everything and knowledge about everything ..etc then this in fact would not be an objection at all, it's just a dispute in terminology. You're just labeling the same being we prove to been existed with different silly names. And if by these silly names you refer not to the same meaning we prove. Then this is would be your answer: Why it cannot be so-and-so? Because we've just proved that it isn't dimwit. The demonstration contravenes the concepts that you're presenting to be God. Once we prove that there is one necessary being that have power over everything .. etc. Then it follows out of necessity that polytheism is false, any religion that says there are more than one God is false, any concept of a pantheon of gods is false. Gods that fight each others, defeat each other, get injured and killed, get drunk, have sex, get married, live on a mountain, do not have knowledge about everything, do not have power over every thing ... etc are false gods. All these attributes contravene what a necessary being is and what has been supposedly proven by theists. So the very proving of the existence of a one necessary being restricts the area of religions to only monotheistic ones and erases all these child-like contingent beings disguised as Gods from the picture. Thus to hell with your "thEre ArE (Generate randomly any 9-figures number) relijan oN eArtH, hOwd yU knO yUrz iZ zA ryTe onE?" also.

Subscription Note: 

Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.

Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.

arakish's picture
Seems to me that you are also

Seems to me that you are also focusing on the failed teenage, whiney-baby objections that yungun theists speak. Just stick the name "theist" in place of "atheist" in everything you just wrote.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
Re: OP

Re: OP

W....... T....... F...... was that???.... *shaking head vigorously to uncross eyes*....

HumbleThinker's picture
yaaaa.. This isn't going to

yaaaa.. This isn't going to turn out well...and its' only "Part I"!

Cognostic's picture
Have you ever read a book?

Have you ever read a book?

1. Everything has a cause, God is a first cause (A Christian Apologetic known as the Cosmological Argument). Nothing to do with Atheism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument

2. God exists necessarily: (Ontological Argument for the existence of god. Another Christian apologetic that has been completely debunked.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_argument

__________________________________________________________
Does not prove the god of the Book of Ignorant Bullshit and Lies for Evangelics actually exists.

Sure it does. There is no apologist out there in the world today defending the "God of the Bible." How could you even do that. The God of the bible is a murdering irrational bastard. THE BIBLE ITSELF IS EVIDENCE OF THIS.

You know what... Your post is foolish. You are shotgunning the site with a billion assertions and no justification for any of them. Why don't you pick a single topic, post it and debate it. Start with the "Who caused God" issue and defend the idea that God (Your version) does not need a cause while everything else in existence does.

What you have done is vomit every idiotic thing you have ever heard into a few paragraphs. They are random, disorganized, and unsupported. They follow no logical flow at all and as such are confusing as hell to address. I have neither the time nor the energy.

Pick something you want to discuss and post it.

Sapporo's picture
1. How do you know that

1. How do you know that everything except god must have a cause?
2. A necessary being that created everything else is only necessary if it actually exists. Defining god as a "necessary being" doesn't prove anything.

Mutakallim_7's picture
1. I did not say that in the

1. I did not say that in the post, tho I do believe that. I only said that we say: as long as 'something exists' then there must be a necessary being. This necessary being is either 'this something' or something else which gave existence to 'this something' in all cases there must be a necessary being for you to have existence at all. Therefore, the premise that athe*sts attack "everything must have a cause" doesn't belong to us. We've never uttered it. This is the point I wanted to make clear. I wasn't proving God's Existence or that the necessary being is some being other than the universe itself. I even stated that this would be in another post

2. Didn't define God as a necessary being. I only said that theists prove that there must exist a one necessary being with such-and-such attributes and It cannot be the universe itself and this is what they call God. How do they do that? I'm willing to show that in another post

Sapporo's picture
Mutakallim: 1. I did not say

Mutakallim: 1. I did not say that in the post, tho I do believe that. I only said that we say: as long as 'something exists' then there must be a necessary being. This necessary being is either 'this something' or something else which gave existence to 'this something' in all cases there must be a necessary being for you to have existence at all. Therefore, the premise that athe*sts attack "everything must have a cause" doesn't belong to us. We've never uttered it. This is the point I wanted to make clear. I wasn't proving God's Existence or that the necessary being is some being other than the universe itself. I even stated that this would be in another post

2. Didn't define God as a necessary being. I only said that theists prove that there must exist a one necessary being with such-and-such attributes and It cannot be the universe itself and this is what they call God.

Your concept of the "necessary being" is not something that cannot be proved, therefore it is meaningless. In my view of reality, everything that exists necessarily exists, otherwise it would not exist. Why can't reality be a "necessary being"?

Why do you not consider the possibility that nature is eternal, without a cause?

What exists is determined by the laws of nature - there is no added meaning by saying what exists must necessarily exist.

Mutakallim_7's picture
I already proved that for

I already proved that for anything to exist at all there must be a being whose existence is not through another, i.e., it is not caused to exist, otherwise you'd end up empty handed--nothing would exist at all. I proved that in the post

I actually considered it. I literally said: Something exists [...] This necessary being is either 'this something' or something else which gave existence to 'this something'. In all cases there must be a necessary being for you to have existence at all

I did not even say what exists must exist necessarily. I don't even admit that.

Sapporo's picture
Mutakallim: I already proved

Mutakallim: I already proved that for anything to exist at all there must be a being whose existence is not through another, i.e., it is not caused to exist, otherwise you'd end up empty handed--nothing would exist at all. I proved that in the post

I actually considered it. I literally said: Something exists [...] This necessary being is either 'this something' or something else which gave existence to 'this something'. In all cases there must be a necessary being for you to have existence at all

I did not even say what exists must exist necessarily. I don't even admit that.

“In nature nothing is created, nothing is lost, everything is transformed.” ~ Antoine Lavoisier

I don't understand why then you are ranting against "athe*sts".

xenoview's picture
The only necessary beings

The only necessary beings needed for you to exist, is your parents having sex.

xenoview's picture
I apply xenoview's razor to

I apply xenoview's razor to your claims of a god.

Xenoview's razor
Objective claims requires objective evidence

NewSkeptic's picture
Wager anyone on how long this

Wager anyone on how long this troll sticks around? I've got 5 to 4 less than two days. Any takers?

arakish's picture
"I'll buy that for a dollar."

"I'll buy that for a dollar."

rmfr

Nyarlathotep's picture
Yeah, I'm not going to try to

Yeah, I'm not going to try to read that to figure out what it says.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
I love the attempt to paint

I love the attempt to paint teen atheists as all semi literate and unable to express themselves, contrasting with the OP writing style. What a transparent , and insulting ploy. I have yet to see a teen posting on any such website using such ridiculous phrasing. Text spelling and acronyms by the score but the op deserves ridicule for this piece of nonsense.
I have no idea of the content of the argument as I found the first premise untenable.

Sock puppet - bets anyone?

Tin-Man's picture
@Old Man Re: "Sock puppet -

@Old Man Re: "Sock puppet - bets anyone?"

And from the looks of it, the sock was worn by a swamp ogre for three weeks straight without being washed.

xenoview's picture
Do you honestly believe that

Do you honestly believe that god created us? Do you have any children? How do babies get here?

Before you can claim there is a god, you have to provide objective evidence. You do know what objective evidence is?

David Killens's picture
But if everything has a cause

But if everything has a cause, then who caused god? You can't just end it with god arbitrarily.

Good point, special pleading is a failed argument.

But even if we accept the argument it doesn't prove the god of the bible exists or the god of the Quran exist.

Another good point. A holy book is just an assertion, it is not proof. If that was true, Spiderman is real.

But why it isn't Zeus or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, or a supercomputer, or even a turtle?

Once again, a good point. The reason they exist is just as valid as the reason a god exists.

Mutakallim it appears you got pwned by some teens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDjsOq5LQ6o

dogalmighty's picture
Ok, you sir, are not worth

@Mutakallim

Ok, you sir, are not worth thought. You will have to shake theism off first, before you can reason your own folly. Cognitive bias is a bitch...just not your bitch. LOL

Sky Pilot's picture
Mutakallim,

Mutakallim,

"There are some popular lame-ass objections that online teenage athe*sts used to raise against theists. I hope by the end of this post you stop making these non-arguments guys, because they're incontestably inapplicable af wrt to what theists actually say."

Some people might care if a God exists and if it shows itself to be real. I don't and would never worship such a creature. BTW, the God character that you think exists is specific to yourself becase it is a creature of your imagination. No one else shares your specific delusion because all Gods are imaginary. Have you ever noticed that in the Bible no one actually believes in God except for the main characters and that even they wavered in their belief from day-to-day?

The bottom line: all Gods are imaginary.

arakish's picture
Diotrephes: "The bottom line:

Diotrephes: "The bottom line: all Gods are imaginary."

Well said. Very good point.

rmfr

rat spit's picture
Preparation H is definitive

Preparation H is definitive proof that God may exist. I’m on athiestkiller’s side on this one ghouls and gals. He makes a lot of points. Not necessarily good points - but he does make a lot of them.

Edit; Did I say atheistkiller? I meant the other theist. My bad.

dogalmighty's picture
"Edit; Did I say

"Edit; Did I say atheistkiller? I meant the other theist. My bad."

LOL.

gupsphoo's picture
@Mutakallim

@Mutakallim

Let me make it simple for you :

"The First One: B-b-b bUt eF eVrySing hAz a Cauz, tHEn wHO cAUsEd God? yOu cAnt jUst eNd it wItH God aRbitRariLy"

Everything does not have a cause. Quantum fluctuations and radioactive decays don't have a cause. It's the theists who bring up the Kalam Cosmological Argument always insist everything must have a cause (except their gods).

"The Second One: B-b-b bUt eVEn eF wE aKsiPt tHe aRgUmEnt iT dosEn pRoov tHe God oF tHe bIBlE exiSts or tHe God of tHe Qur'an eGzist"

Arguments are not evidence. You can't argue something into existence.

"The Third One: B-b-b bUt whay it izn't Zeus or zA flAyin SpAgHetTi mOnsta or a sUpEr cOmpUtEr oR evEn a tUrtlE"

If an atheist says that, he's definitely making fun of your religion, rather than making a serious argument.

MinutiaeAccreted's picture
@Mutakallim

@Mutakallim

Painting those arguments that counter theists assertions as juvenile doesn't make them juvenile, nor does it make them inapplicable to the theistic assertions you then simply go on to make yourself. I'm sure it has been pointed out to you before, but the "Kalam cosmological argument" does not contain, as any part of its conclusion, the existence of god. All it asserts is that there must be a cause for everything that begins to exist - it does not mention what that cause is. You, and goofballs like you, are the one inserting god as the cause - which is fallacious and doesn't follow. Not only that, but you also simply assert that your god didn't "begin to exist", thereby exempting it from needing a "cause" - and this is tantamount to cheating. You didn't present any evidence for why this would be the case, you have no ability to demonstrate the truth of that claim. It is nothing more than an assertion - and no amount of representing atheists as slurring and whining their speech is going to change that. You've proved nothing in this thread except that you have nothing worthwhile to present in support of notions of god.

Sheldon's picture
"1. No theist has ever lived

"1. No theist has ever lived on this planet since God created us has ever said that Everything must have a cause to begin with. "

Does anyone understand that? Has it been translated through Babel fish or something? Why do so many religious apologists not understand grammar or punctuation, or what a fucking shift key is for?

2. Is a special pleading fallacy, look it up, get an adult to read and explain the multi syllable words to you.

To be honest I think you're trolling, and this is desperately sad as your execrable English means you can't afford to waste the time when you should be studying.

Ramo Mpq's picture
Oh man I can’t wait for part

Oh man I can’t wait for part 2. Already bought the popcorn

Sheldon's picture
Is it ever moral for a 50+

@SFT

Is it ever moral for a 50+ year old man to rape a nine year child?

It's not popcorn you need, it's some integrity.

rat spit's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

It’s not rape if they’re married and the man in question is a great prophet.

dogalmighty's picture
Ummmm...ya

Ummmm...ya

Pages

Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.