Lets talk about FREEDOM!

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CyberLN's picture
Leviticus and Deuteronomy

Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written before there were Christians.

Lmale's picture
Im aware of that but before

Im aware of that but before christianity only the jews followed them.
When the romans created christianity they adopted the rules along with most of the philosophy. Adding bits they wanted like endorsing slavery.

Chuck Rogers's picture
The Romans did not create

The Romans did not create Christians. The disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians at Antioch. It may have been a Roman that called them that, but that is because they were living and talking like Christ. When you get saved, Christ enters in as the Holy Ghost and makes it easy to have the same desires as Christ. Hence you can be like Him, which makes you a Christian.

I have asked in the past to show me any verse in the New Testament KJB something that Jesus told His followers to do that would be considered wrong. I never got an answer. Can you give me one?

Lmale's picture
Hmmm christianity has broken

Hmmm christianity has broken 5 of its own commandments and decided to not enforce leviticus and deuternomy along with other crazy rules.
Dont give me that bullshit about jeasus telling you not to follow them, in his 'own' words he said i come not to change the laws but to fufil them and not a jot will be changed until god makes his kingdom on earth.
So he didnt stop leviticus and deuternomy you wanna know what did, society people started to rebel against the sick rules so the church did what it always does changed shit.
Everytime we prove they got something wrong they say oh it was only a metaphor despite claiming for over a thousand years it was litteral truth.
Everytime people refuse to do something the church gives in why? If its gods message who cares that people stop coming to church the message is the 'truth' so should not be altered. Oh wait i know who cares the BUSINESS called christianity. They need church goers and donations so they can live their lavish lifestyles so they will do whatever it takes to keep people going to church. That includes lying.

Travis Paskiewicz's picture
Chuck, your not going to win

Chuck, your not going to win anyone here over to Christianity by quoting the bible. I can't honestly speak for everyone here, but most of us look objectively at the bible as a product of mankind's work. Like many Holy Books, most of which you discredit, the bible shows all the trademarks of being simply fictional writing. The ideas, views, and stories are simply the views of the culture and men that produced it. That is how, I think, most atheist view the bible. And, quite honestly, I don't think the evidence to prove it accurate would still exist, had it existed at all, as it regards most of the "miracles". Quite frankly, you're at a dead end trying to convert an atheist. Most of us have researched the validity of any of the biblical stories and claims, and found the evidence to support it underwhelming, when there is any evidence to consider at all.

Chuck Rogers's picture
Travis Paskiewicz

Travis Paskiewicz
If you go to my my first topic you will see that I'm showing Atheists that what they believe is by faith, which means that Atheism is a religion. Andit takes more faith to believe something from nothing, or life from rain on rocks, than to have faith in God. The only reason anyone believes anything is because of faith. You believe what you believe according to your world view. There is nothing in the Bible that you can prove wrong. While there is nothing of the big bang that you can prove to be true. There is no rock solid evidence that can't be disputed. Everything that is seen can be possible with God.

You don't know if there is some Atheist in this sight that can or cannot be converted. But that would be God doing the converting. It's amazing what He is able to do when some believe it's impossible.

David_Holloway's picture
I know this thread is 3 years

I know this thread is 3 years old, but I have just been reading it and chuckling to myself.

First of all relgilion is repressive, it doesn't let be from to love who you want to love as an example. It say homosexuality is morally wrong. To me what is morally is sticking your nose into other people lives. If two consenting adults of the same sex fall in love then good on them. Some people go an entire lifetime without finding love. They aren't hurting anyone, it is strictly between them. Morality to me is you can do what ever you like so long as you don't harm anyone else.

Next, Chuck, you mentioned false religion but yoy included Catholicism... um, isn't that just a different flavour of Christianity, done they believe in Jesus Christ too? I don't get how Christians can say Christians are follow the wrong religion.

Religion doesn't even offer you the freedom to good without it. I was saying to a Christian once, she was saying it is an awful risks I was taking with my immortal soul by not have faith.
I said that I was good person, I try and do a good deed everyday, I give to charity, are you seriously saying I'm gonna burn in hell for ever just because I don't believe in Jesus Christ? Her response "ah well unless you are doing them for the lords glory and not your own then that's all worthless." I said "I don't do them for my own glory, or out of fear of retribution or as a bargaining chip for my immortal soul, I do it because it is the right thing to do and for no other reason. To me there is no more noble reason to do these things." She ended up telling me she would pray for me, to which I responded "if it makes you happy, feel free." You see I can even do right for the sake of doing right without God and religion trying hijack it.

I don't believe you are free. Once you reject this fantasy that imprisons you you will never be free. To quote your book "the truth will set you free!"

Tin-Man's picture
An honest, decent man owns

An honest, decent man owns and operates a little retail shop in the city. Let's call him Bill. The business does not make Bill a rich man, but he makes enough to live a relatively comfortable life. One day while Bill is stocking his shelves, a man in a suit walks into the store and introduces himself. "Hi, Bill. I am Mr. Jones." Perplexed, Bill replies, "Uh, hello... but how do you know my name." The man says, "Oh, I know many things about you, Bill, but that is not important right now. The reason for my visit today is that I would like to make a business deal with you. It is a deal I think you are going to like very much if you have a moment to hear it." Hesitantly, Bill replies, "Well, okay, I suppose." So the man continues, "Bill, you have a wonderful little shop here, and I truly love that you are a decent, honest, hard working man. With that in mind, it would be an absolute shame if any type of.... "accident" were to happen here to put you out of business. My proposition to you, my good man, is that you simply pay me a small percentage of your income every month. In return, I will personally guarantee that nothing will ever happen to your cozy little shop here. Oh, and as an extra incentive, I will even help your business grow and flourish far better than it ever has. How does that sound to you?" At this point, Bill is obviously getting a bit nervous, and he tells the man, "Sir, no disrespect, but I'm gonna have to ask you to leave now." With a chuckle, the man replies, "Bill, Bill, Bill.... Oh, my. *tsk-tsk* Apparently you do not understand. Please allow me to explain. If you refuse my offer and choose not to pay me every month, I am afraid I know some very nasty and malicious fellows who love nothing better than to destroy private property and cause total mayhem. I would sincerely and absolutely hate it if they were to find out that I am not providing protection for you. And it would be even more horrible if they found out where you and your family live, wouldn't it? But, hey, nobody is forcing you to make this deal. The choice is totally up to you." Now Bill is starting to get mad. "Mister, you leave now, or I am calling the police." Waving his hand dismissively, the man replies, "You mean Chief Smith? Oh, by all means, please call him. And give him my regards while you are at it. Oh, that reminds me, he and I are meeting for lunch this afternoon, so I'm afraid I must be on my way. By the way, I will have one of my men come by next week to collect my payment, that is IF you choose to accept my deal. Remember, you have free will to make whatever decision you want."

Does this sound familiar to anybody? Reminds me of something else I have heard before. Just can't quite put my finger on it... *scratching head*

David_Holloway's picture
I was going to use this exact

I was going to use this exact analogy. I think you put it so much better than I would have.

Tin-Man's picture
Thank you, Agnos. It is a

Thank you, Agnos. It is a favorite of mine I heard not too long ago.

LostLocke's picture
To me, I prefer George

To me, I prefer George Michael's Freedom 90 over the original Freedom he did in Wham.

Or is that not the freedom we're talking about?....

Tin-Man's picture
@LostLocke. Re: Freedom 90

@LostLocke. Re: Freedom 90

Yeah, I agree. Freedom 90 was definitely better. And, considering some of the comments I read on this discussion, the song probably COULD be used here. But, hey, "You just gotta have faith... Just gotta have faaaaith.... 'cause you gotta have faith, faith, faith, just gotta have FAITH."

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