No Atheist Shall Pass

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David Killens's picture
Not just any invisible magic

Not just any invisible magic friend, but a famous one, either from science or a movie.

Sheldon's picture
It is believed that 8 to 10 %

It is believed that 8 to 10 % of people will hear voices at some point in their life.

Now, what is more likely?
a) They have a cognitive disorder
b) Invisible magic friend popped into their heads for a quick chat
-----------------------------------
Aw hang on, I know this one, don't tell me....tip of my tongue....nah it's gone.

After a lifetime in engineering and manufacturing industries, I thought I suffered from intermittent tinnitus. It seems I was mistaken, so is the whistling noise in my head the overlord or the dark one? Whoever it is they can't carry a fucking tune.

David Killens's picture
https://www.youtube.com/watch
arakish's picture
@ David

@ David

Thanks. I have always loved that song. In fact, it was that song that prompted me to want to learn the sax. Unfortunately, I found the get-fiddle to be easier.

rmfr

Sheldon's picture
YOU seem to have attracted a

YOU seem to have attracted a stalker. They're going to each of your posts irrespective of content and logging a single sad 'disagree'.

What do you know, you really can get through to some theists after all. ;-)

arakish's picture
@ Sheldon

@ Sheldon

Yeah. I noticed that. I just ignore it. If they are such a coward that the only thing they can do is click Disagree without posting why they Disagree, oh well.

At least when I click Disagree, I post why. I ain't no coward.

rmfr

rat spit's picture
Define “cognitive disorder”

@theblindwatchmaker

Define “cognitive disorder” as well as how it gives rise to these so called “hallucinations” in such a way that the hearer is introduced to voices with their own personality, their own history, and their own agenda. How does the brain do this?

arakish's picture
@ rat spit

@ rat spit

Define “cognitive disorder” as well as how it gives rise to these so called “hallucinations” in such a way that the hearer is introduced to voices with their own personality, their own history, and their own agenda. How does the brain do this?

Just like the Overmind. In mysterious ways...

rmfr

Sheldon's picture
"How does the brain do this?"

"How does the brain do this?"

What evidence can you demonstrate it requires unexplained magic from a supernatural entity?

We already know that everything we understand of the brain's functions can be explained as natural phenomena.

So this sounds like another God of the gaps argument to me. Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy yet again.

Occam's razor remember? Adding assumptions makes things exponentially less likely to be true.

rat spit's picture
You like to belittle the

Sheldon,

You like to belittle the subject by bringing into account the word “supernatural”. There’s nothing supernatural about it. It’s a simple combination of two things (things you cannot or do not comprehend)

A) Consciousness is infinite and non-spatial
B) Beings have evolved to the highest levels of consciousness

Thus, we have everywhere - beings who are non-spatial and occupy the conscious field in a ubiquitous manner. Their interaction with us is no different than a body of mass interacting with a gravitational field.

Sheldon's picture
Argument from ignorance

Argument from ignorance fallacy again. You are claiming a separate supernatural cause, demonstrate some objective evidence for your claim.

In almost every thread we have theists of all stripes stridently making claims they can demonstrate no evidence for, it's risible.

rat spit's picture
I have auditory perceptual

I have auditory perceptual evidence.

arakish's picture
Do you have it recorded? rmfr

Do you have it recorded?

rmfr

rat spit's picture
Nope. Technology has not

Nope. Technology has not advanced to be able to record the imagery, sounds, smells etc. of dreams or the sound of inner thought.

Cognostic's picture
I looked up Cognitive

I looked up Cognitive Disorder in the DSM V and this is what it had to say.

"Neurocognitive disorders-including Spitirium, mild Ratnitive impairment and Ratmentia-are characterized by decline from a previously attained level of ratlike functioning. These disorders cause diverse clinical impairments, with Alzheimer disease, cerebrovascular disease, Lewy body disease, frontotemporal degeneration, traumatic brain injury, infections, and alcohol abuse represented by common delusions of an all powerful Overlord controlling the universe. Separate groups symptoms for each sub-disorder all result in multiple manifestations of delusional attributes. The fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) provides a common framework for the diagnosis of neurocognitive disorders, first by dissecting rats, giving rats massive drugs, torturing rats, drowning rats, and then comparing rat behavior to the behaviors of the common cockroach. The main cognitive syndromes, and then defining criteria to delineate specific aetiological subtypes of mild and major neurocognitive disorders are then derived from the difference in those behaviors. The DSM-5 approach builds on the expectation that clinicians and research groups will welcome a common language to deal with the neurocognitive disorders. As the use of these criteria becomes more widespread, the rat and cockroach problem in areas like New York city will decline and a common international classification for these disorders will emerge for the first time, thus promoting efficient communication among clinicians and researchers.

(PDF) Classifying neurocognitive disorders: The DSM-5 approach. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266325299_Classifying_neurocogn... [accessed Jan 09 2019].

rat spit's picture
Cog,

Cog,

Somehow, I know I’m being insulted - which is weird because I’m having a hard time holding back this grin on my face!

Cognostic's picture
Anyone can say "Fuck You."

Anyone can say "Fuck You." That takes no talent at all. Even a monkey can hold up a middle finger. But give an intelligent monkey a keyboard and a computer screen..... then stand back. Monkeys ain't no dummies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktkjUjcZid0&t=1264s

arakish's picture
@ Cognostic

@ Cognostic

Sometimes I actually wonder if monkeys are actually more intelligent than we are...

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
Loads of animals have

Loads of animals have intelligent abilities that we just don't understand. I have been reading about crow communication lately. Very smart birds and scientists assert, "They have a language."

arakish's picture
All animals capable of

All animals capable of producing vocal sound waves have a language. Sometimes just doesn't translate well into others.

rmfr

doG's picture
What about other reasons for

What about other reasons for voices? Schizophrenia for example. How do you jump to supernatural explanation with other far more reasonable explanations?

rat spit's picture
Like what? Schizophrenia is a

Like what? Schizophrenia is a label. It’s a misleading label. “Split Mind”? No. There’s a very rare illness labelled “Split Personality Disorder”. The sufferer goes in and out of consciousness as other personalities come into being and pass away.

Read the article if you like. It’s posted on page 1. 8 to 10 % of the population experience auditory hallucinations. Of that 8 to 10 % - 1% experience enough distress to seek professional help. The majority live normal, productive lives.

Besides all this, tell me? How does the brain create auditory hallucinations of personalities with their own history, levels of intelligence, emotional IQ, and historical background?

Here’s a hint. Science doesn’t know - Science can treat the “disease”. They don’t understand how it happens and they minimalise the symptoms to fit their private agendas.

The alternative claim is that there is a super consciousness out there. This can be verified by anyone with the slightest amount of imagination. If you come into contact with it; it may just decide to pipe up and start talking to you.

Keep in mind this consciousness is non-spaitial. Being anywhere in the universe includes being in contact with this Entity.

Behold the OverLord. Behold the Evil One!!!

Cognostic's picture
"The alternative claim is

"The alternative claim is that there is a super consciousness out there" Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.....
The alternative claim is that RatSpit has become Schizophrenic and created in illusory world where the utterances he mumbles through fermented cheese soaked whiskers waft gracefully through the air to form cherry hued images of reality on the walls of his padded cell. A reality about which he knows no other.

It should be clear to all that our poor fellow RatSpit was hit on the head with one of Alan Watt's books. And now he has that asshole Deepak Chopra, M.D. caring for him. We should take up a donation and buy RatSpit a little train set for his padded room. Then he could go round and round and round all day shouting "Woooo Woooo!"

.

doG's picture
rat spit

rat spit
You did not answer my question. How do you jump to supernatural explanation with other far more reasonable explanations? Avoidance tactics are the tools of a dishonest person. Please answer my question.

Anyways, hallucinatory symptomatology, mental, visual or auditory, are tenets of a variety of brain function disorders...when these functional physical or neurochemical disorders are treated, the symptoms go away. When the patient stops said medication, these symptoms return. It is reasonable to believe neurochemical imbalance, or other, as likely for said symptomatology. It is far far less likely said symptoms are of supernatural origin. Pleading from beliefs seems obvious to me here rat spit...any other pleas for god on the way?

rat spit's picture
Pffft. Avoidance tactics.

Pffft. Avoidance tactics. Like I’m worried about your questions? Give me a break.

If you think the psychiatric solution of “schizophrenia” is “far more reasonable” - go right ahead. It’s a drug-driven industry that actually has no explanation for the diversity and eccentricity of these so called “hallucinations”.

To answer your question more directly - I hear the OverLord; I hear the Evil One. Each is infinitely more powerful and intelligent than I am.

Now. Do you think it’s more rational for me, specifically, to accept that my brain gives rise to these Entities? Or should I take into consideration the infinite lengths to which their power and intelligence extend?

And Nein. I am not advocating for any type of “God” in the sense that you’re used to. No bible. No six day creation. No Adam. No Eve. Just a super powerful Deity and His alter ego pervading the whole universe with their singular infinitely great intelligence and power.

If you don’t believe it, here’s something for you - I don’t acknowledge your existence. In fact, if you don’t believe me, then you have no basis on which to posit your own Selfhood.

Do you hear your self think? Yes. Oh! Indeed. You must have a disorder of some kind. PID. Personal Identity Disorder. You actually think that the thoughts inside your head are coming from “you”. Hilarious. I love it how naive you all are on this forum.

Tin-Man's picture
@Rat Spit

@Rat Spit

Hey there, Ratty! How's the New Year been for you so far? Good, I hope. Mine started off a bit bumpy, but things are starting to smooth out a bit finally. Tell The OverLord "hello" for me, and try not to let The Evil One get you into too much trouble. Tell him he should pace himself. There is a whole year ahead in which to cause much havoc and chaos. No need to pack it all into just two or three big hits. Space it out a bit and enjoy it... *chuckle*... Oh, and if you happen to need a hand with some of the assigned tasks, I suppose He knows where to find me... *grin*... Take care out there, dude!

rat spit's picture
@Tin-Man

@Tin-Man

My new year has been going well. My cult has grown to 25 now. We’ve sacrificed several goats already - and it’s only the 14th! The Evil One is becoming more demanding - asking for virgin sacrifices. In this day and age - where am I gunna find a virgin? Walmart? Anyhow. I hope He likes goat’s blood.

The OverLord says “hi”. He’s happy to see that you are rust free and have been chopping wood.

To be honest; I’ve come down with an disorder of the phlegm. Got a real good chest cough. Is it weird that I like the taste of phlegm? Always have.

Anyhow. If you’d like to help the cause; we’re always looking for radical Islamic jihadists to join the group. Send any you know of my way - courtesy of 666 - Alderwood Lane, Greenville New Hampshire. (We’re gunna overthrow the Government).

Tin-Man's picture
@Rat Spit

@Rat Spit

Actually, Walmart is the LAST place you should go to try to find virgins.... well, in the Southeast U.S., at least. They are definitely in short supply around these parts... *chuckle*... Don't know any jihadists personally, but I can tell you Iraq and a couple of other places in that part of the world would be a good starting point to find a few. Those are definitely NOT in short supply over there. Well, at least they were not the last couple of times I was there, anyway. Been a few years, so who knows now?... *shrugging shoulders*...

Good luck with that government overthrow. Although, I have to say I'm not sure why anybody would want to do that. Just seems like too much of a headache to me. After all, once you oust the current regime, you must then go in and sit up shop and take over all the pain-in-the-ass jobs they had been doing. And my understanding is that hiring office workers can be a real bitch nowadays. Still, its a hobby, I suppose. Whatever keeps The OverLord happy. (Oh, wait.... Or is it The Evil One calling the shots on that?) Oh, well, either way, "Have fun storming the castle!" (Might want to get rid of that nasty chest cough first, though. Nothing worse than being hit by a coughing fit in the middle of a siege. Really takes all the fun out of the moment.) Be safe out there!

Edit to add:
https://youtu.be/AjUmULa0R-8

doG's picture
"Pffft. Avoidance tactics.

"Pffft. Avoidance tactics. Like I’m worried about your questions? Give me a break."

Rat spit
Avoidance or difference, are classic poor debate tactics under the "bob and weave" moniker of apologetics. That is what you display. Not that I already have not pointed out your dishonesty in this debate forum, on this thread...not that I have not yet seen through your argument...not that I really need you to answer my and others questions...but for attempt at a proper debate...I will ask you again, for the fourth time, how do you jump to a supernatural explanation with other far more reasonable explanations? Do you not use reason while assessing truths or probabilities? or do you allow belief driven cognitive dissonance to pervert your thinking? A proper response that addresses my question would be appreciated.

rat spit's picture
You’re a troll. But I’m not

@dicK

You’re a troll. But I’m not done with you. My answers have been short, concise, and to the point. Your so called “more reasonable solutions” have been shown to be erroneous.

I told you that I literally hear the OverLord; the Evil One - and you insult me by asking me if this “cognitive dissonance has perverted my thinking”. You’re a troll. You use insults to question the honesty of my experience.

So, troll-boy. There it is. I am not jumping to any supernatural explanation. I literally hear supernatural beings. I literally converse with supernatural beings. 10 percent of the population does the same.

If you don’t like that - give me a nice scientific explanation regarding the diversity and eccentricity of my so called “hallucinations”.

You have the dopamine theory. That’s a nice start. Why don’t you start with a neuro-chemical and go on to explain how the brain generates an inner voice with more intelligence than the listener. Your understanding of the “disease” is pathetic.

How long can you hang on to terms like “cognitive dissonance” and “cognitive disorder”? How far do those terms actually take you?

You can’t and won’t give a scientific explanation of the diversity and eccentricity of my so called “hallucinations” because science doesn’t have an answer.

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