Proof for the Torah

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Proud Jewish boy's picture
Who's diotrephus and what was

Who's diotrephus and what was his example?

Harry Truman's picture
I used to be like you- and I

I used to be like you- and I even made a post on this exact website very similar to this one, except I used to be a Karaite.

You have to prove that whatever prophecies may be in the Torah were indeed written before such events took place, and that, if the Torah did have prophecies on it, that this proves it came from God. Thus far we have seen neither.

I would also like to add that your 'prophecy' is very vague- if I 'prophecy' that 'things will happen,' it is going to be fulfilled, not because I am a prophet, but because it is a very vague statement.

If you want to prove Judaism, geyGod to come down here and prove he exists, then give us a reason why we should listen to him.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
The project is far from vague

The project is far from vague, and from your statement I would assume you didn't take the patience to read through my two long posts.
What I am proving is that the author obviously had supernatural powers, something you atheists deny. Whether God or not, it is supernatural. One of the reasons I think this supernatural power is God, is bc whoever the supernatural being is had his credibility affirmed from the fact that so his prophecies were fulfilled. Now, if he says he's God, I'll trust him I that as well. But let's not get sidetracked with this, bc the main argument is if there's supernatural.
The prophecies were clearly written before 2000 years ago (every scholar agrees to this, also the dead sea scrolls contain these passages) and the fulfillment of them happened afterwards.
I encourage you to read the entire argument of mine.

Harry Truman's picture
Like I said before, I used to

Like I said before, I used to be involved in Judaism, I know what your argument is, you copied it.

Many religions have supposed prophecies- those of nostrodamus were more accurate than those of your Torah, yet you don't consider this a proof of satanism.

All your prophecy said is that a far away empire with a foreign language would conquer israel- which isn't prophetic, its historic- foreign nations with foreign languages conquer areas- that has been happening since the beggining of time. Anyone could have guessed that this would have happened some time in the future.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Apparently, you haven't read

Apparently, you haven't read my second long post which goes through eight other, unpredictable, prophecies found in that chapter. Please read that before commenting.

LogicForTW's picture
Wow! This is amazing! A whole

Wow! This is amazing! A whole bunch of "non vague prophecies" that all came true, written 100's or thousands of years before they occurred??

Why has the religious leaders hidden this amazing evidence from us for so long! They could have billions of highly devout followers immediately flock to their religion! Think of all the souls saved! The huge upswell in faith in the correct image of god!

Lets get these ancient documents in the hands of a bunch of top scientist to verify their age! Top linguist the world over to correctly translate them! Top archaeologist and fact based historians to verify the prophecies!

....Oh they haven't? Why not??

False alarm everyone, sorry, more unverified story telling. It all still has just as much evidence as other concepts like the tooth fairy, flying spaghetti monster etc.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Perhaps the world hasn't

Perhaps the world hasn't flocked to it bc they are exactly like you - a bias man who was stubborn enough not to put in any thought into the matter, yet alone I doubt if you read it.

LogicForTW's picture
If top respected scientist

If top respected scientist and scholars of their respective fields, that before were of different religion or atheist stated they tested these scrolls to their satisfactions and found them to be true, believe me I would notice, the whole world would. It would be the biggest story of all time.

I could even be late to the party, if a religion and exact sect within it, had such compelling evidence, as more and more people learned of such powerful and compelling evidence the numbers would swell, very rapidly. In places of free speech and internet, it would spread to 90+ % adoption in a matter of days.

Basically I am saying: if what you had was real and was allowed to be verified in any way by anyone who wished to verify it, the entire connected world would already know all about it and be following it.

It is like aliens visiting this planet, most of us are very skeptical, but if we suddenly had powerful irrefutable proof of aliens, the entire world would know, and it would be the biggest story ever covered so far. No one would "miss out" on the information in any place that had the free flow of information.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Can you answer directly to

Can you answer directly to the argument without looking at side points? I can explain you why it isn't famous but I think it's getting sidetracked..

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
No lol.. seriously.. Harry

No lol.. seriously.. Harry has virtually already said Everything you have. It's nothing new here.

xenoview's picture
PJB

PJB
Is faith the only way to prove your god?

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Plz read the flow of things

Plz read the flow of things in this thread. It seems like you missed the boat..

xenoview's picture
PJB

PJB
Is faith the only way to prove your god is real? Very simple question to answer, either yes or no.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Your question didn't make

Your question didn't make sense. How can you use FAITH to PROVE God exists? Most religious ppl place their belief in God based on belief. Similarly, most atheists have their opinions based off belief. I am not of that kind as I only conclude based off logic and rationale.

xenoview's picture
PJB

PJB
Do you have faith in your god? Simple yes or no. How do you prove your god is real?

Proud Jewish boy's picture
My strongest evidence is the

My strongest evidence is the one I posted in two long posts at the beginning of this thread. Plz have the patience to read it.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Proud Jewish boy - How about

Proud Jewish boy - How about a full nation being exiled?...Surprisingly, one of these rare full nations were the Jews, and the Torah predicted it!

Uh no, the full nation was not exiled by the Romans. But you just claimed the Torah predicted a full exile. So I guess the Torah is wrong. Surprise, surprise.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
They actually were. If you'll

They actually were. If you'll learn Jewish history, like I did, you'll realize that the Jewish population shifted to Babylon following the Roman conquest of Judea.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Uhh, not all of them, by any

Uhh, not all of them, by any stretch. Since your talking about Jewish history; how about the history of Galilee. You know, the place in Israel where Jews were the majority population until at least the 3rd century? Yeah, that does not sound like a total exile to me.

Or maybe Judah the Prince, one of the leaders of the Jewish community in Judea during the 2nd century (after your "total exile")?

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Btw, are you Jewish by any

Btw, are you Jewish by any chance?

The shift began precisely right after the death off Judah the Prince at the conclusion of the Mishnah. That's when most the Jews moved to Babylon. It started before but the primary change happened then. What issue do you have with that?

Nyarlathotep's picture
Proud Jewish boy - The shift

Proud Jewish boy - The shift began precisely right after the death off Judah the Prince

The Roman exile took place in the first century (and early 2nd), Judah the Prince died in the 3rd century. It seems you like to play fast and loose.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
The shift was primarily due

The shift was primarily due to the Roman oppression which proceeded the destruction. Either way, the verses don't say that specifically the oppressor will chase out the Jews. It merely says that the Jews will be scattered around the world... Surprisingly, what has not happened to the vast majority of nations has happened to the Jews...

Nyarlathotep's picture
Proud Jewish boy - Either way

Proud Jewish boy - Either way, the verses don't say that specifically the oppressor will chase out the Jews. It merely says that the Jews will be scattered around the world

That contradicts what you told us earlier:

Proud Jewish boy - How about a full nation being exiled?...Surprisingly, one of these rare full nations were the Jews, and the Torah predicted it!

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Read verse 36. There it says

Read verse 36. There it says that God will exile us from our land.

Diotrephes's picture
Proud Jewish boy,

Proud Jewish boy,

The Romans took tens of thousands of Jews to Rome as slave labor to build the Colosseum Arena.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Proud Jewish boy - They

Proud Jewish boy - They should have been shocked 3,300 years ago when it was prophesied.

I see you exaggerated the age of the book of Deuteronomy, or more likely copied from an exaggerator.

Proud Jewish boy's picture
Again you need to learn your

Again you need to learn your Jewish history.
Let's go through it briefly:
2,000 years of exile which came after the two temples which each stood about 400 years EACH (or according secular chronology 600 years for the second temple...) which has a 70 years exile in between. Before the first temple the Jews were in the land for 300 years after spending 40 years in the wilderness.
Do the math....

Nyarlathotep's picture
Proud Jewish boy - Do the

Proud Jewish boy - Do the math....

800 + 2017 = 2817 not 3300

Proud Jewish boy's picture
1950+420+70+410+360+40=3,250

1950+420+70+410+360+40=3,250

These are the more precise numbers

Nyarlathotep's picture
Boston University - Because

Boston University - Because of its relation to the reforms of Josiah, the Book of Deuteronomy (albeit not necessarily in exactly the version before us) is the only major part of the Pentateuch whose date post quem (i.e., the date by which it had been composed) can be dated with some degree of certainty (late 7th century BCE).

Yale - Deuteronomy contains northern traditions from before the fall of Israel, which was in 722, but it was clearly finalized in the exile. There are many passages that make it clear that it's written from an exilic perspective [see note 1].

University of Idaho - Deuteronomy: c . 600 BCE

Sorry, Deuteronomy is not 3,250 years old.

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