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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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What do Christians think the second coming means (as in the book of Revelation it is described) than that a wise man shall come and break the seals thereof and explain what it really means?
For when this occurs, and the explanation is undeniable, then there shall be a weeping and a gnashing of teeth--namely, because the Christians believed in the wrong thing the whole time: they instead worshiping the image of the beast called Christ.
I've never understood how people ascribe ethics and morality (aka pain avoidance systems) to a supernatural cause. It's obviously natural in origin. You don't hurt me and I won't hurt you. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. How is this so profound that it must be sourced to a god?
It isn't and that's the flaw in it.
People refuse to believe they have no purpose in life. But, the truth is they don't. To modify this less-than-rewarding burden of truth they must make some convenient changes. And, certain unscrupulous people recognizing the usefulness of this desire in man did exactly that.
People are basically good. They want to be understood as caring, sharing and embracing of their fellow man. And, tit for tat, they want that in return. Profs call it balanced reciprosity. Hence the golden rule mentioned above. It evolved all by itself as a natural ordering of behavioral necessity in communal (tribal) groups, and then beyond to whole civilizations. This trait of being naturally good, however, was too good to be natural. It had to be the work of something unnatural, sayeth the usurpers of human weaknesses.
Why? Why must this be of an unnatural origin? To give substance to the notion of gods.
The best we could do as a species was be good to each other. That was the best we had in our hearts for each other. Recognizing that, building upon it and making it an eternal reward, certain persons with designs on controlling the masses used it for exactly that. Doesn't sound like much but in a world of constant sorrow, harsh times, lives bent at the waist and on the knees performing heavy labors, eternal peace and brotherliness in and uber-happy afterlife was attractive.
Give people something they recognize as good and offer it to them for an eternity is a quick sell. Standing on a soapbox in funny clothes telling them all they have to do is worship the god that created it (morals and ethics) for them and they're in. First, now they have a purpose in life - to worship a god. This is huge. Second, the payoff for that worship is eternal peace and happiness. What's not to like?
Now that we have mass stupidity well in the bag and at our disposal, we'll evolve and consolidate this new found power over the people and use them for our (god's) purposes. The archeological records bears it out in the form of countless holy wars.
So, morality and ethics, naturally occurring in man, were redirected to a supernatural origin that people were indoctrinated to believe by an unscrupulous few.
And, conversely, the decay of religious systems pretends that ethics and morality, originating in a god, will disappear without religion to channel it to man.
Seeing that this thread deals mostly with the literal interpretation of the Bible, which many feel and to be absurd right off the bat, I will limit my comments.
I agree with Travis and Pitar, wherein they generally demolish the naivete of Ilovequestions. But even then saying "most scholars" agree or disagree doesn't mean anything unless specified. When 'most scholars' agree" is used I can see that what is meant is "most biblical scholars," and when 'most scholars' do not agree" I take that to mean most scientists and philosophers who do not believe that the Bible is in any way a literal narrative.
But to now go off on this non-literality would throw this thread of post, as it were. So let the above distinction of "scholars" suffice for now.
I saw an interview that comedian Bill Maher did with one of these religious finatic pastors...he was saying that 28% of the religious population believe that the Bible was to be taken literally...then Mr. Maher was ready with several statements from the Bible that were absolutely absurd. The one that stuck out in my head was the one that said " any woman that has sex before marriage would be stoned to death." The evangelist hemmed, and hawed, began his sentence with " well, you see," mentioned some nonsense about the new testament. All you could hear was the audience groan, like what a crock of shit this is. Mr. Maher then jokingly said to his guest, " look, you have to admit that this is just CRAZY STUFF!!' Look it up...go to youtube, and click on Bill Maher debates religious finatic. It is a hoot... he made the guy look absolutely ridiculous!!
reality, I don't know who the pastor was and what went on, but I do want to say that before Jesus died for us, the law was set to show us the way to not be eliminated but it had no mercy, sin is contagious. Sin was sin and had to be eliminated from the camp. There is no difference in the New Testament regarding sin, it still needs to be eliminated from our camp (body). The difference comes by the fact that Jesus died for the whole world even your sins whether you want to accept it or not. Jesus paid for the whole world and we are in an age of grace till He returns and separates those who believed and those who didn't. His Word says, He died for the whole world, especially for those who believe..." this means that those who believe are saved from sin and those who aren't are still dying from sin because they haven't taken hold of the pardon. Sin kills us whether outwardly by stoning or inwardly because God says the soul that sins dies. He says that sin destroys our souls, many people are looking for outward cures for an inward problem. Jesus made a way through His own Sacrifice on the cross and only by forgiveness can we be set free. The Old Testament sacrifices were basically a sign to God that the sins would be paid for, like credit cards. When you go into a restaurant and eat and pay by a credit card, you didn't pay for the food yet even though you ate it. You gave them a credit card stating that you would pay for it when you signed for it. After Jesus died for us.....He said, "It is finished!" the sin debt had been paid and anyone can choose to accept it as payment in full for every sin they committed or pay for their own sins when He comes back. The thing is that the wage for sin is still death and we are all living souls. Those who know Jesus will be made perfect like Jesus, we will be sons and daughters of God, those who don't accept Him will only have their eternal messed up soul and because sins separates us from God, they will not be able to be with God. They will be sons and daughters of the god they chose and go to the place prepared for him. Jesus wants everyone to be saved. He is our only hope.
reality, I don't know who the pastor was and what went on, but I do want to say that before Jesus died for us, the law was set to show us the way to not be eliminated but it had no mercy, sin is contagious. Sin was sin and had to be eliminated from the camp. There is no difference in the New Testament regarding sin, it still needs to be eliminated from our camp (body). The difference comes by the fact that Jesus died for the whole world even your sins whether you want to accept it or not. Jesus paid for the whole world and we are in an age of grace till He returns and separates those who believed and those who didn't. His Word says, He died for the whole world, especially for those who believe..." this means that those who believe are saved from sin and those who aren't are still dying from sin because they haven't taken hold of the pardon. Sin kills us whether outwardly by stoning or inwardly because God says the soul that sins dies. He says that sin destroys our souls, many people are looking for outward cures for an inward problem. Jesus made a way through His own Sacrifice on the cross and only by forgiveness can we be set free. The Old Testament sacrifices were basically a sign to God that the sins would be paid for, like credit cards. When you go into a restaurant and eat and pay by a credit card, you didn't pay for the food yet even though you ate it. You gave them a credit card stating that you would pay for it when you signed for it. After Jesus died for us.....He said, "It is finished!" the sin debt had been paid and anyone can choose to accept it as payment in full for every sin they committed or pay for their own sins when He comes back. The thing is that the wage for sin is still death and we are all living souls. Those who know Jesus will be made perfect like Jesus, we will be sons and daughters of God, those who don't accept Him will only have their eternal messed up soul and because sins separates us from God, they will not be able to be with God. They will be sons and daughters of the god they chose and go to the place prepared for him. Jesus wants everyone to be saved. He is our only hope.
Simple...just go to youtube and type in Bill Maher...you will see a title that says "Bill Maher debates religious fanatic." So, I've always wondered what the term "Jesus died for you" means exactly... How, and/or why would He have to die for me? Was I around 3000 years ago? Did I do something terrible before I was born? If I did...I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY,i'M SORRY!!! I didn't mean to do it,,,I just didn't know that God was watching me 3000 years before I was born!!
Above correction: "which many feel and think to be absurd right off the bat"...
Personally I want to see a cock fight, in a large chicken-wired cage, all South America style, between "Shock of God (The undisputed champion of nothing)" and "ILovequestions (the naive yet voracious young Christian)".
Please place your bets 20 minutes before the bell is said to have been wrung.
I'll bet 20 coolpoints on ILovequestions. I figure Shock of God will 'prove' the fight does not exist, then get disqualified for not showing up.
No no no, he'll prove the fight had begun to exist, but his having already won it was pre-ordained and exists outside time and space.
good point, is it too late to reverse my bet?
I bet on neither, none of their arguments change, which means they are timeless and exist outside the universe so their arguments have no meaning.
Never bet against someone who can philosophise everything on it's head, and make time the effect of change!
I think I am going to adhere to Shock of God's "time relationism".
That way, since change is required for time to occur, I can sleep in as late as I want to each morning, right?
Don't forget, our universe will eventually suffer from entropic heat death, which will make it "timeless"(because it will be changeless forevermore). If it is "timeless" that means it never could have "begun to exist", so the big bang MUST be wrong.
Yep, if time is a function of change: T(C)
then the rate of change of time is the lim as h approach 0 of [T(C+h) - T(C)]/h = dT/dC
Therefore if you don't change, time can't change, so you can sleep as long as you like. Make sure to tell that to your boss when you get fired.
LoL
That is what makes me laugh. Some people when asked if they "believe" will say..."I WANT to, but..." My question has always been...WHY?? What purpose does it serve to want to believe in something that deep down you know cannot be true, for the purpose of believing in something?? Believe in YOURSELF, and good people who have been good to you, someone who has taught you good things, doctors, educators, a family member that has mentored you, and has become a great role model...believe in THOSE things. I've felt that people cling to these things as a way to deal with the scary thought of their own mortality... that they WILL be going to some kind of "Paridise." That I get...but, be REASONABLE, and SAY it that way...deep down, these people HAVE to know that what they are thinking cannot possibly be so. ( if they REALLY believed what they were thinking, then why are they so sad when a loved one passes away...they should be HAPPY that they are going to a " better place") But to think it to try to cope with certain things...I get that
Why does it matter that some people believe in something larger than life, while others don't? Believe what you want to believe and leave everyone else alone. My faith has nothing to do with you, I don't have to explain myself to you, especially when you are nit picking at every answer from either side. No one is going to win this argument.
I don't mean this to be insulting, but that is really ignorant.
You don't notice that religion is always trying to influence politics and education, and Indoctrinate the children? If the religious could just leave everyone else alone! Religion has a grip on politics, education, culture, language, you name it! It's like an friggin infectious decease!
Personal faith is just fine. If it could just stay at that level.
Not insulting. I agree with some of what you are saying. I mean I hate when religion gets involved in politics more than anyone else, including atheists, but people are going to make decisions based on their belief system and its going to be biased. Everything is biased in this world. It's naive to think that religion will ever be completely taken out of politics, education, culture, language, etc. people influence those topics and people are biased by not only their personal experiences but their belief system. Your influence on those topics are just as biased as mine.
If your bias is to rape little boys, then we should just leave you alone because "people are biased by not only their personal experiences but their belief system.?
I am sorry, but people that believe in the concept of scapegoating should be ridiculed for it.
It is an evil concept of primitive people that believed that their sins could be placed on a goat and left in the desert.
it tries to take the responsibility of the person and puts them on a sacrificial goat.
The fact that theists do not see this evil act, is in itself the reason why we should draw their attention more to it.
This is one of the reason why we have mothers burning their babies alive because people are brainwashed from birth to think that scapegoating is a good thing.
You do not believe me read this:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/26/17923647-baby-girl-sacrifi...
The sooner you realize that theists are bordering on the insane and just need a match to go completely nuts the better it is for the entire community.
Would we even need to debate gay rights if it wasn't for insane evil theists that were brainwashed to believe that they are better then others? Racists is a more appropriate word.
Some actually believe that if you are not a theist then you deserve eternal torture.
If that is not an obvious evil concept, I do not know what is.
So please spare me the Hypocrisy, theists are the ones pushing towards dogmatic evil concepts and forcing them on the rest of society all the time and it has nothing to do with bias but sheer arrogance of being chosen by god and arrogance of having the moral high ground.
Arrogance is the problem of Christianity and it has been brainwashed to little children to make them believe that it is OK to be arrogant.
In time indoctrination will be recognized as what it is, CHILD RAPE and declared illegal, then we will surly have a more mature and honest discussion since the majority of people will finally start to be SANE people.
Hi SvanUlf, I am a Christian and the reason that I believe in Jesus is because His Word is pure Truth and I cannot find pure truth anywhere in this world, truth mixed with lies, but not pure. You are right to say that wishing would not be a good reason, that would be ignorant. My belief in Jesus is beyond doubt because I know Him. I know He exists because of my own personal relationship with Him. I am sorry that your father died and I felt your grief as I read your post. The only thing I can say to you is if you really want truth God will show Himself to you because He knows your heart is sincere. I would suggest that you read the book of John in the Bible with an open mind asking God to show YOU something personal and I promise He will and you will know that you know that you know!!! I could go on about how the Word of God said "life was in the blood" when doctors were draining blood thinking it would cure them...instead their patients were bleeding to death. The Word of God speaks about Atoms in the book of Hebrews before we were that "smart" to know that everything visible was made by invisible. The Bible said the world had circuits when they thought the world was flat...but none of this will matter to you if you don't have an encounter with God yourself. If you are serious and want an honest answer, I believe He is drawing you already... Read John and get to know God who came down in the form of a man, to save us. He saved me and He promises to do the same for anyone who knows they need "Something" this world can't give them. I will be praying for you.
"The Word of God speaks about Atoms in the book of Hebrews..."
Please elaborate.
"I will be praying for you."
Well, won't that be helpful? This is something that makes you feel better; it allows you to pretend you are doing something helpful when you aren't doing a damn thing.
Ronda - "The Word of God speaks about Atoms in the book of Hebrews"
really?
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=atom&qs_version=KJV
'0 Bible results for “atom.”'
Ronda - "Jesus prays for those..."
So Jesus prays to himself?!?
----------------------------------
Ronda - "God speaks to me..."
"If you talk to God, you are praying; if God talks to you, y̲o̲u̲ ̲h̲a̲v̲e̲ ̲s̲c̲h̲i̲z̲o̲p̲h̲r̲e̲n̲i̲a̲." - Szasz
You're right Nyarlathotep.
Ronda - "Jesus prays for those who are His"
Whoa! Recursive payers!
Like feedback when you put a microphone too close to the speakers.
Maybe that is the explanation to why the Christian god has been inactive since Jesus ascended to heaven?
He prayed to himself and accidentally blew his own mind in the recursive feedback! Doh!
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