At times on these forums I hear that jesus wasn`t a real figure; Tell me if there is a GOD is it impossible for him to come into our time and space. To be born live and die. What skeptics are meaning is that god couldn`t achieve this they are limiting God. Surely God could do anything he wants but contradict himself. So I think it is logically permissible that jesus was God made in the flesh. What is your opinion?
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@ devout
I am not against you, I'm really not. That being said you ask a question that in my mind makes no sense. It's like asking if Harry Potter could be real. You have to understand that it makes no sense to conceive of a god if there is no evidence to support that conception. Oh, we could make up anything and say a god could do it, just like you saying that a god did do it, but that isn't real. You have to have something plausible to go on, and just saying "that a god could come into this world as a mortal being for a time and then return to his immortal being" just doesn't make sense. It is childlike in it's concept.
You see that the world is at enmity with God, What you don`t see is that you are closed off from thinking anything spiritual you can`t know God or the things of god as you live in unbelief, Which is called a sinful condition. that`s why you can`t answer my question that I just posed. You don`t know the things of God. I believe judging by your prior post that you even hate God. Correct me if I'm wrong; The disparaging things you say shows me that you walk in the darkness. You are being led astray mykcob you are living a fools man life .and one day you and every knee will bow and confess Jesus as Lord.
That is condescending bullshit Devout. I have been a christian and I know all there is about being a christian. I woke up to reality. I don't walk in darkness and I will never kneel to a myth. You can call me a fool all you want. Deep in your heart, you know you are wrong. I don't hate god. You can't hate what doesn't exist. The world isn't at enmity with god. Quite the opposite I would say. I am not closed off from thinking spiritually. I just don't do it anymore. It isn't a sinful condition. How can requiring proof be a sin? That is just fucking stupid.
Well if you don`t hate God then why do you use such disparaging language toward him it seems that your angry with God; As for the world being at enmity towards God; sure it is a great portion is they don`t want God in there lives or want to live for god .read romans the whole first chapter being with adultery rampant and homosexuality be flaunted these days, With materialism and everybody doing there own thing, With a decline in church attendance among the population this is signs how the world views God .should I go on here;
@Devout
What is the percentage of atheist in the world? About 3% max. That says that 97% believe in a god. Of the believers, over 70% believe in the god that you believe in. I use the most effective language. My language isn't against god because there is no god. My language is for and against people.
I can't account for adulterers. As for materialistic people, the vast majority are christians. Have you ever heard of or are you a member of a "mega-church"? That is an audacious display of materialism if there ever was one. People do their own thing because they have a right to do so. You want to control what individuals do and that is a sin if there ever was one.
Homosexuality is not a choice. People are born that way, but your religion is exerting hate and prejudice against innocent people for the way they naturally are. that is a sin if there ever was one. I would say that YOU demonstrate the most hate.
Hear, hear!
Something I'd like some clarification on however, is your stat on how many Christians there are. As of 2017, four different studies, two being performed by Christian foundations, found that between 31~34% of the world practices/believes in the Christian faith. Is that 70% supposed to be nationally? Because I would've thought it'd be higher in America.
You watched God's Not Dead recently, didn't you?
Devout Christian:
I'll prove to you that there isn't a god/Jesus after you prove to me that Zeus, Apollo, Athena, Odin, Thor, Ra, Amaterasu, and all the other gods don't exist. You're an atheist toward all these other powerful creator gods. What's special about Jehovah? The only evidence for him (and these other gods) is in ancient writings.
Devout Christian
There probably was a man named Jesus. Every legend has an element of truth to it. But even if it is proven that a man called Jesus did walk the, I reject the calm he was devine. Here's the problem. You are making a calm that Jesus was like no man, before or after, because he was God incarnated. Now if this true, I want you to demonstrate that it is. I could say to you, King Arthur was real as was Merlin and so was Excalibur. I can say to that I know it to be true because there are many texts saying so and I feel it in my heart to be true. That, to you, might totally implausible so you, quite rightly, reject it. I have to prove to you why you're wrong to reject my claim. The same applies to tge Devine Christ. At this juncture, all the Devine Christ is, is a story. Maybe tye greatest story tyat was ever told, but a story nonetheless. Just like King Arthur, Odysseus or any other legend.
So no, I don't think it is plausible.
If there is no god(s) then, yes, it is impossible for it manifest in any way.
DC, please correct me if I am wrong, but you have stated many different times how your life is miserable and that you are an unhappy and conflicted man. And then, often in the same paragraph or statement, you go on to accuse so many of us on here as "having empty lives" and of "walking in darkness". Do you not see the irony there, bud? Have you even really bothered to truly and openly READ any of the posts on here? Is it not apparent to you that most all those "lost and empty souls" of which you speak are actually people who are very happy and satisfied in their lives, and they are on here doing their sincere best to help others with their problems? I mean, think about this for a minute (and I mean REALLY think about it): You get on here and claim how unhappy and miserable you are while spouting all these bible verses about how wonderful and great God is in an effort to try to convince healthy and happy people that your belief in said God is such a fantastic and wonderful thing. Am I missing something here? Add to that you are back and forth like a yo-yo, one day spewing forth a slew of bible verses and praising God with multiple exclamation points, and the next day expressing doubts and claiming you are trying to break away from the church. Just like Myk said, I am not against you. Nobody here is. And I am not saying this to be insulting, but if you are really having this much trouble in your mind, I seriously suggest you seek professional help/counseling. Take care, bud.
devout christian,
As I've said before, you can easily prove that Yeshua was legit simply by doing the things that he said a believer can do if the believer has faith. Walk outside and command the nearest tree to uproot itself and to jump into the nearest body of water. If you can do that without any assistance then you are on your way to proving that Yeshua was legit. You will also be the first person in world history who has ever believed that Jesus was real. And then you can go cure everyone in the nearest hospital. That'll piss of the doctors but who cares? The patients will love you.
Hi DC
I am going to try to take your post point? by point.
"At times on these forums I hear that jesus wasn`t a real figure;" That is because there is not one piece of credible evidence that such a person existed. This is a subject in itself and I am happy to discuss with you on another forum.
"Tell me if there is a GOD is it impossible for him to come into our time and space. To be born live and die." If there is a god or gods it is quite possible for such a being to do exactly as they want. But you have to show credible evidence that such a being(s) exists before making the claim..
" What skeptics are meaning is that god couldn`t achieve this they are limiting God." how can a human sceptic limit a god? A total contradiction in this sentence. If you make the claim that "god did this or god can do that" then the burden of proof is on you or your god to prove their existence.
" Surely God could do anything he wants but contradict himself." If you read any of the Abramaic texts you will find that the god you seem to prefer has multiple contradictions.
"So I think it is logically permissible that jesus was god made in the flesh." This is truly a non sequitur As you have failed the test of logic in every sentence and the burden of proof , your claim is another nonsensical statement. If you truly wish redemption for us poor unbelievers then I suggest you take a couple of courses and ask your deity to provide some proof of existence.
DC watch this:
https://youtu.be/bQmMFQzrEsc
There's much more than that. That's one little aspect of it. When you're done I'll give you more. Then I'll point you towards books by scholars and other peer reviewed publications and their findings. Then, you tell me why people would say that Jesus probably wasn't real.
Or just put your fingers in your ears and scream: "I can't hear you" like all other apologists always do (figuratively). It's up to you. Let's see how open minded you really are (out aren't).
@devout christian,
I see you have fallen off the Jesus wagon again:
If I may, I would like to present this interesting piece of "food for thought" from my amazing wife:
"The bible says that God already had angels worshipping him and singing his praises. Why did he need to create humans to worship him? Is his ego that big? And if you are an all-knowing God and know how it all plays out, why even do this in the first place?"
(As I may have mentioned before, it is almost impossible for me to get away with anything in my house. lol)
Tin-man,
Actually that logic has a lot of flaws in it.
Consider us, modern man. While at least half of us are nuts we still want to achieve perfection. So intelligent people are not satisfied with their own intelligence. They want to create machine beings, androids, which will have artificial intelligence that will surpass their own natural intelligence. The end result may be that the androids will displace everyone, including the very people who created them. We fear that as a possibility but it doesn't stop people from pressing ahead and doing the very thing that could result in destroying all of humanity. So like the God character we will do things that have bad results even though we know that the results will be bad.
@Diotrephes Re: Actually that logic has a lot of flaws in it.
Howdy, Dio.
Yeah, after reading your response just now (Wonderful analogy with the androids, by the way.), it dawned on me that using the term "beautiful piece of logic" was an unintentional error on my part, as that was by no means a statement of logic. I know better than that. It was one of those "spur of the moment posts" done in a bit of a rush, so I didn't exactly proof read it before sending it. My bad. Probably should have used something along the lines of "an interesting piece of food for thought." My throwing the "logic" term in there sorta detracts away from the point and muddles things a bit. Thank you for pointing that out to me.
With that in mind, your "androids and AI" analogy fascinates me. I have never considered that before. What makes it even more interesting is that we (mankind) are actually on the verge of the technology potentially reaching that point. And applying that to a god or gods, it adds an entirely different view to whole shebang. I love thinking about that kind of stuff.
@Tin-man: "why even do this in the first place?"
Well it gets even worse. Theists tell us that god is eternal, unchanging, all-powerful, perfect, yet in the same breath they tell us that god created the universe and everything in it. What does that mean?
Well it means that one day this eternal, unchanging perfect god thing woke up and realized there was something missing from its life, so it created the universe and us. But a perfect being cannot create anything, since it's complete in and of itself. God is supposed to be unchanging, yet something changed to make it want to create us. So it's not unchanging.
Therefore god as defined by the theists does not exist.
@Algebe Re: "why even do this in the first place?"
THAT, my man, is some truly deep thinking. Wow.
@Algebe knocked that deeeeeeeep!
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Re: Algebe's deep thought
That didn't just go out of the park. That went out of the COUNTY.