QUESTIONS AJ777 refuses to answer.

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Cognostic's picture
QUESTIONS AJ777 refuses to answer.

AJ777 ASSERTS ATHEISM IS OR HAS A WORLD VIEW:
STILL WAITING" ANSWER THE QUESTION! YOU MADE THE ASSERTION NOW DEFEND IT.
(Do not let him shift or wiggle out of a response to your questions. He does this over and over and over. Keep asking the question until he gives a response or admits he is wrong.)

The set of atheist beliefs.
1. Atheists do not believe in god or gods.
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?

Care to enlighten us? Atheism is generally a reaction to Theist claims that god's exist.. NOTHING MORE. What are these claims you assert atheists are making? There is no atheist world view. Atheists are liberals and conservatives. Atheists are secularists, Buddhists, New Ageists, Spiritualists and more... Where is this belief system you speak of? PROVE ATHEISM HAS A WORLD VIEW.

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AJ777's picture
Funny

Funny

arakish's picture
Still being the Religious

Still being the Religious Absolutist. Thinks we are joking when we are actually serious. Pawns it off as comedy because he cannot answer our questions.

You must have been the Dodge Ball champion of your school.

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
FUNNY MY ASS - ANSWER THE

FUNNY MY ASS - ANSWER THE QUESTION! Stop playing your stupid little games and support your assertion or admit you are wrong.

Sheldon's picture
True, but not funny.

True, but not funny.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Cog

@ Cog

There are many more questions AJ777 ignores or ducks under the bedcovers to avoid.

1. He has yet to provide any contemporary evidence for the Jesus as described in the gospels.
2. He has yet to provide any evidence that Christianity "has the answers"
3. He has yet to provide any evidence of "eyewitnesses" to the alleged death and resurrection of the Jesus figure.
4. He has yet to provide evidence that "we are all sinners"

So far he has answered nothing and demonstrates only the usual woeful ignorance of his religions history and evolution.

Next he will be bringing up moths that resemble owls...*sigh*

Cognostic's picture
That's my point. People

That's my point. People need to stop letting him dance around and just keep re-posting them until he responds. DO NOT ENGAGE HIM IN ANY CONVERSATION UNTIL YOU GET A FRIGGING RESPONSE. He has hundreds of posts and has not said or responded to a damn thing. He is a TROLL. He needs to be pinned down to a response or get the hell off the site. IMO. He needs to admit he is WRONG before being allowed to move on to the next INANE ASSERTION. Pin him down on one stupid remark at a time. Stop letting him wriggle and squirm. STOP LETTING HIM DANCE AROUND..

arakish's picture
By Cognostic's suggestion.

By Cognostic's suggestion.

@ AJ777

Is it objectively moral to force children to believe in the Bible utilizing mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism? Is it objectively moral to force a belief in an entity that cannot be proven by utilizing mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism?

Even if your God exists outside of normal space and time, anything it does to this realm will leave evidence. Where is that evidence?

There are approximately 20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in this universe. We are now discovering that stars with planets are the norm, instead of the exception. We have even discovered several Terran-type planets within what is called the “Goldilocks Zone.” Do you honestly expect me to believe that your God created such a huge universe with all those galaxies and stars and planets just for a single species of backward, primitive, barbaric primates on only one insignificant planet orbiting an insignificant star located in an insignificant galaxy? If you believe such a delusion, then you are truly suffering from the major mental disorders as described above.

Even if I were to say that only one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one-hundredth of one percent (×0.000 000 000 000 000 000 01) of those total stars has an “earth-like” planet with intelligent life and an advanced civilization comparable to ours, that would mean that there would still be 200 such planets in this vast universe. Of course, if all 200 were evenly distributed throughout the universe, the distances would be so vast between us, none shall ever know the existence of the others. Ever. Think Critically about it.

From whence comes evil and sin?

Who sends who to Hell?

rmfr

AJ777's picture
My last name is La Fleur.

My last name is La Fleur.

Sheldon's picture
Since you claimed it was your

AJ777 - Since you claimed it was your personal opinion that torturing children is immoral, and therefore according to your bible which YOU believe is true, your deity is immoral, as it tortured babies and children in the bible, why do you think it is immoral to torture children? .

Cognostic's picture
Answer the Question asshole.

Answer the Question asshole.
QUESTIONS AJ777 refuses to answer.
AJ777 ASSERTS ATHEISM IS OR HAS A WORLD VIEW:
STILL WAITING" ANSWER THE QUESTION! YOU MADE THE ASSERTION NOW DEFEND IT.
(Do not let him shift or wiggle out of a response to your questions. He does this over and over and over. Keep asking the question until he gives a response or admits he is wrong.)

The set of atheist beliefs.
1. Atheists do not believe in god or gods.
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?

Care to enlighten us? Atheism is generally a reaction to Theist claims that god's exist.. NOTHING MORE. What are these claims you assert atheists are making? There is no atheist world view. Atheists are liberals and conservatives. Atheists are secularists, Buddhists, New Ageists, Spiritualists and more... Where is this belief system you speak of? PROVE ATHEISM HAS A WORLD VIEW.

Tin-Man's picture
My impression of AJ777...

My impression of AJ777...

https://youtu.be/gkTb9GP9lVI

Along with attached pic...

Attachments

Attach Image/Video?: 

Yes
arakish's picture
LMAOWF. And how true. rmfr

LMAOWF. And how true.

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
I wanted to put up hamster

I wanted to put up hamster dance but then I realized you were spot on. Hamsters are cute and funny, not ill-informed manipulative pedantics failing at attempts to sound interesting.

Cognostic's picture
YOU ARE NOT DEBATING ANYTHING

*REMOVED BY COG* Some things really aren't worth saying.

HumbleThinker's picture
@Cognistic

@Cognistic

I can't speak for AJ777, but I'm not surprised he is avoiding your questions. Not because he doesn't have an answer, but because y'all swarm on him like the 8th plague. Hard to address all of the atheists in this forum that are desperately seeking Truth. : )

To your question.

world·view
/wərldˈvyo͞o
noun
a particular philosophy of life or conception of the world.
"I have broadened my worldview by experiencing a whole new culture"

According to this definition, how is atheism NOT a world view. It is simply how you perceive a certain aspect of the world. You see a world without God/gods. Christians see a world with God. These are both worldviews. No?

David Killens's picture
@Humble Thinker

@Humble Thinker

"According to this definition, how is atheism NOT a world view. It is simply how you perceive a certain aspect of the world. You see a world without God/gods. This is a worldview. No?"

I believe that the Warner Bros. Bugs Bunny cartoon character is not real, but just a creation of imagination put to film. What is the worldview of all people with the same inclination?

How about people with a sweet tooth? Do you think they all share the same worldview?

NO, because the only thing they have in common is just one factor. Everyone on this planet, dead or alive have different worldviews. If there are seven billion people, there are seven billion different worldviews. Based on your logic even your wife has a different worldview than you.

HumbleThinker's picture
"If there are seven billion

"If there are seven billion people, there are seven billion different worldviews. "

Sure, I wouldn't disagree. But if you apply the same logic to Christians, then how is believing in God considered a worldview?

Talyyn's picture
Christianity is heavily

Christianity is heavily codified and posit that Humanity is utterly depraved.

Cognostic's picture
Reliving in God is not a

Reliving in God is not a World View. Christianity is a world view, all 30,000 sects. How one believes God effects the world is a World View. Praying for cures instead of going to the doctor is a World View. Pretending anyone who does not think like you is going to burn in hell is a World View. Thinking you have a magical relationship with the all powerful creator of the universe and can talk to him and have him alter your life is a World View. Going to Church every Sunday to make baby Jesus happy is a World view. Imagining magical powers influencing you and the people around you is a world view. Belief in god is not the issue. It is which god and how the person thinks the god interacts with the world that creates a WORLD VIEW.

Keep in mind there are many God beliefs that do not effect a world view. The Deists come to mind. "God created the world" (This part obviously is a world view.) and then left. No more influence in anything. I guess we could call this a minimalist world view. The world one view of the deist that could be considered a world view "God did it" has little or no impact on anything else because after god did it he left.

arakish's picture
Careful HumbleThinker. We

Careful HumbleThinker. We may just start swarming you.

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
world·view

world·view
/wərldˈvyo͞o
noun
a particular philosophy of life or conception of the world.
"I have broadened my worldview by experiencing a whole new culture"

According to this definition - Atheism can not possibly be a world view. Atheism is a lack of a view. ATHEISTS DO NOT SEE A WORLD WITHOUT GOD OR GODS. Atheists have no reason to believe in God or gods. ITS NOT THE SAME THING,.

All you have done here is to make an attempt at shifting the burden of proof. I have no reason to believe in your God or gods until you prove they are real and actually exist. The only person expressing a world view is the theist. I reject that view. I do not assert the opposite is true. I do not need to do that.

If you tell me that the number of stars in the sky are even, and I tell you that I do not believe you, I am not asserting that the number is odd. I am only saying you have not proved your assertion. The number may be even and the number may be odd. I have no reason to adopt either WORLD VIEW without evidence.

Like our friend AJ777, you have no idea at all what you are talking about when you use the word "Atheism."

HumbleThinker's picture
"If you tell me that the

"If you tell me that the number of stars in the sky are even, and I tell you that I do not believe you, I am not asserting that the number is odd. I am only saying you have not proved your assertion. The number may be even and the number may be odd. I have no reason to adopt either WORLD VIEW without evidence."

I actually really like this analogy. And I am sure you are getting frustrated with the amount of Christians that try to switch the burden of proof to you, but I try not to do that. I do understand the basics of logic, and I take responsibility for having to prove it to you rather than the other way around.
I also know atheists take the accusation of having a belief personally and seriously. I've watched a lot of debates on this stuff and the atheist always gets upset when a Christian tries to say Atheism is a belief too. I also try hard to avoid that.

You're argument has almost convinced me, but one thing still troubles me. If we started with a blank slate, and I said I believe aliens exist, that is my worldview. If we never discussed it, I wouldn't consider you to have a worldview that aliens don't exist, because like you said, it is a lack of a view at all. If, on this blank state, i told you about aliens and you didn't understand, or you said you don't care one way or the other, or even that I haven't convinced you, then I would concede you had a lack of a view. BUT if I tell you about aliens, and you say "ALIENS DON"T EXIST", then you now have the worldview that aliens don't exist. Not lacking a worldview.
It is a subtle difference, but with big implications.

arakish's picture
@ HumbleThinker

@ HumbleThinker

***tree shambles out of the forest, bows***

Very well said. Very honest. Thank you.

And yes, as an atheist, anti-theist, and anti-religionist, I do take offense when someone says my atheism, anti-theism, and anti-religionism is a world view. I shall be the first to admit that the word "belief/believe" is actually a very apt description of my "unbelief" in that a deity does exist.

Here is a copy and paste of a short essay I wrote elsewhere.

According to my world view, the fact that you have different beliefs and views than I do is not wrong. What is wrong in my world view is that you Religious Absolutists feel it is your moral imperative to force your beliefs system onto others who refuse to believe your beliefs. What is wrong in my world view is that you Religious Absolutists firmly believe that ALL humans are worthless, sick, immoral, wicked demons. That none can be good, moral, ethical, and treat others as being worthy of being treated as equals without some form of Sky Faerie and/or Magic Lich Virgin telling them how to live their lives and what they can and cannot think. Most Religious Absolutists believe I deserve to be tortured by having my flesh seared off my bones and regrown only to be burnt off again and again and again for all eternity if I do not believe the same way they do. As if the threat of your Hell makes your bullshit smell any sweeter. And obversely, as if your enticement of Heaven is any sweeter. Read “Is Heaven Really Good?” This is applicable to any religion espousing they possess the ultimate truth of an afterlife which cannot be proven to exist.

In my world view, I can ascertain and evaluate what is truth. “How do I determine truth?” you may ask. Simple, with objective hard empirical evidence, logical and deductive reasoning and analysis, rational and analytical thought, critical thinking, cogitation, empathy and sympathy, and reasonable arguments.

How do you determine truth? Simple, you run to an obsolete Bronze Age religious text full of pure savage immorality.

I can look at anything, and say, “that is right,” or “that is wrong.” But according to your world view, or should I say according to that obsolete Bronze Age text, I am incapable of determining what is right or wrong, good or evil, truth or lie. You cannot seem to derive any reason of your own to think anything is wrong except by what your book tells you. “That is depressing to say the least,” said Godless Cranium, to which I wholly agree. It is so sad...

Absolutists are clearly incapable of defending their moral beliefs without relying on some other immoral religious text. Moral beliefs should be defended and explained by rationality and reasoning.

Why is it that you feel that ONLY you have the right and can make an account for what is right or wrong? In your world view, how exactly can you know what is absolutely true? You saying that an obsolete and immoral religious text tells you, makes no sense to me whatsoever. And relying on that obsolete and immoral religious text also informs me that you are purposefully mentally retarding your mental faculties to the point that you are incapable of thinking for yourself.

You seem to be telling me that you can look at an event and intuitively know what is true, or right and wrong, or good and evil, just because you have memorized an obsolete religious text, or memorized only that which you have cherry-picked out of it. Yet I see Religious Absolutists doing the most heinous crimes, such as the rape and molestation of children, blowing up innocent people, past and current, at least once a month in the news. It seems I can never turn on the news without seeing a story, once a month, about a priest having raped and/or molested children, or a Muslim blowing up innocent people. And these news stories have been going on for the last three to four decades. Then you wonder why I no longer watch the news.

There are myriad different Religious Absolutist divisions (30,000 to 42,000 in all the Abrahamic religions!), and none seem to agree on how to interpret your obsolete text. Yet you want me to believe that you know the ultimate truth in any given situation. Why should I not be able to form an opinion on what is right and what is wrong? You Religious Absolutists do it all the time. Even if it goes against your obsolete text. What makes you so damned privileged? As Christopher Hitchens once said (paraphrased), “Since it is preposterous to believe all religions are true, the only final answer is that they are all wrong.”

How do you Religious Absolutists determine that raping someone, or beating someone in the street is wrong when your Bible is full of rape and murder and genocide and torture and abuse and slavery? Justifying any kind of violence is easy using your Bible. Especially if you buy into William Lane Craig’s bullshit known as Divine Command Morality.

Divine Command Morality. The belief you Religious Absolutists and Apologists hold onto that says that anything your God commands is good, regardless of its actual moral implications. This is the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever heard. I found these two formal definitions for Divine Command Morality: “Morality is dependent upon God, and that moral obligation consists in obedience to God’s commands.” And from Wikipedia: “A meta-ethical theory which proposes that an action’s status as morally good is equivalent to whether it is commanded by God.” In other words, if “God” tells you to perform an ethnic genocidal cleansing, then it is morally good. To which I would say, BULLSHIT! The Divine Command Hypothesis is the most monstrously immoral thought ever thunk.

How I reason that raping or beating someone is wrong, is because I can sympathize with the victim. I can even empathize with the victim, because even I got my ass whooped in the street once for no other reason than my car died in the wrong part of town, and for nothing more than what I did not have in my wallet.

I do not want to live in a biblical-based society full of rape and violence because I want to be safe. I desire for my friends, my family, and my loved ones to be the safest they can be within human possibility by having laws that help to protect them from rape and assault. I believe that ALL human beings have integrity, dignity, and worth. I do not need a silly Sky Faerie to tell me that. I can arrive at that truth with my own cognitive abilities. Should I list them again? Empathy, rationality, logic, reason, deduction, critical thinking, sympathy, analytical thought, and the greatest one of all, LOVE.

I cannot think of anyway how I shall ever understand why you Religious Absolutists find this so hard to comprehend. Such is just one of myriad reasons I find ALL religions like yours so damned repugnant and disgusting. It teaches me that I cannot be good to others without some form of special permission from your Sky Faerie. And, to get that special permission, all I have to do is to kneel and bow down and kiss its ass. This robs me of my self-worth, my dignity, my self-esteem, my mental faculties, my morality, and teaches me that all human beings are wretched and wicked things, needing an imaginative Sky Faerie to heal them. Why is it that you can make judgment calls and dictate what is right and wrong, and I cannot?

As Godless Cranium once said, “If I bought into that argument, I would be just as deluded as all of you.”

Regardless of what any may say, “Morality is subjective.” It has always been subjective, is subjective, and shall forever be subjective. There is no such thing as objective/absolute morality. What you Religious Absolutists refer to as “objective/absolute morality” is nothing more than the great majority of individual’s subjective morality agreeing with all others as being something “good” for the society of all. Then the religious leaders decide that moral issue becomes the “objective/absolute moral law” of your imaginative Sky Faerie. Proof not one Religious Absolutist is ever capable of an original thought. And since you know you are incapable of anything original, your do as Jesus says and steal it like a thief in the night. When you say you imaginative Sky Faerie dictates objective/absolute morality, you are actually saying it is actually dictating tyrannical totalitarian edicts. Not morals. Think Critically about it.

And my biggest hurrah, thanks for the honesty. Honestly.

rmfr

EDIT: finished cleaning up language since I copied this from a text file and did not bother proofing it more than half way thinking I had already cleaned it up. Thanks HumbleThinker.

PS — Required Definitions

Religious Absolutist – anyone belonging to and possessing an inexorable belief in any religion, due to their absolutist beliefs, and is truly applicable to any inexorable religious believers, especially the worst subset, Apologists.

The difference between a Religious Absolutist and a Religious Person is that the Absolutist completely believes the Bible is inerrantly correct and will not accept any evidence that truthfully proves their beliefs are completely incorrect. A Religious Person actually believes science to be true and views the Bible as basically a fairy tale, excepting the very few true truths it does hold. Basically all a Religious Person is doing is trying to find an answer to the need of the spirituality they feel. An Absolutist is perfectly willing to kill, perform physical torture, and/or psychological terrorism, against a godless heathen in order to save his/her soul, regardless of the cost or morality. A Religious Person is actually rational about their beliefs and what they hold to be true. Atheists and Religious Perons can read many books and still feel they have a lot to learn. Absolutists barely read that one book and feel they know everything. And the worst Absolutists of all, the Apologists. The Apologists go to only religious universities and earn degrees proving they have cherry-picked memorizations of the Bible in order to argue against Atheism. Some of the worst are Ken Ham, William Lane Craig, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Joel Osteen, Eric Hovind, Sy Bruggencate, and many many others.

Religious Absolutist Apologist – a dastardly subset of the Religious Absolutists who practices apologetics, which is the assumption of presupposed conclusions that have nothing to do with reason and rationality and actual information, creating irrational excuses and whatever conflicting ideas justifying their baseless assumptions, regardless of what the true facts are, using beguiling dialectical semantics, distorted and perverted data, emotional whiney-ass pleas, due to an indoctrination conditioning that is so ingrained they never question the veracity of the nonsense they offer, or why they need to defend their faith at all.

HumbleThinker's picture
"short essay"!?

"short essay"!?

haha Thanks for sharing. Although I obviously disagree with a large portion of it, I do like the thought you put into answering these difficult questions. I genually do wish we could sit together and discuss this in person. It would be fun and beneficial for me at least, I think you too. Can I be honest with you though, just like how you don't like when Christians say atheism is a belief, I find your use of negative adjective's towards us as not just disrespectful but distracting from your entire point. Reading "What you stupid, moronic, idiotic, and retarded megalomaniacal psychotic sociopaths refer to as “objective/absolute morality”..." is kind of unnecessary, don't ya think?

arakish's picture
Sorry about that. Meant to

Sorry about that. Meant to clean that up like I did the rest. I actually wrote the original to another person who has left because he really pissed me off with his lies about me and what I had said previously. Saved it in a text file and meant to clean it up to put into the book I am currently working on.

Again, sorry. Guess it is a moot point to go back and edit, but I shall.

rmfr

EDIT: You said "short essay!" Yeah it is short because it is part of a much longer treatise that covers about 20 pages of 8½ × 11 inch paper with 0.75 inch margins all around. Or is that one that covers over 25 pages? Anyway, you get the idea.

Cognostic's picture
You are obviously the most

HumbleThinker:

You are obviously the most intelligent Theist on the Site. Forgive me any shortness I may have expressed. I tend to be direct and do get irritated with theist unfounded assertions. Especially like those of AJ777 who refuses to discuss anything honestly. I will not lump you in the same boat and look forward to your next post.

* If we started with a blank slate, and I said I believe aliens exist, that is my worldview.

How would your slate be blank if you wrote on it "I believe in aliens?" Where did you get this idea. What were your experiences.? What evidence do you have for this idea? Why did you tell me this idea? All the reasons that led up to the conclusion are your world view. All the meanings you attach to aliens are your world view.

Why would I have a world view that aliens don't exist. Where would I get this information from? What evidence would I have for this idea? Why would I tell you? When you gave me your evidence, I would either believe it or reject it based on all I know about the idea of aliens and my world view.

BUT if I tell you about aliens, and you say "ALIENS DON"T EXIST", then you now have the worldview that aliens don't exist.

YES YES YES! ( I knew you were smarter than any other theist on the site!)

YES! That is correct. I have made an assertion about the world around me and I must support that assertion with facts and evidence. That is why the minimum position for being an Atheist is "non-belief in god." This is demonstrably different than "believing a god does not exist." (An anti-theist position that requires proof.)

With that said, I can in fact demonstrably prove that most gods do not exist. A square is a square and it is not a circle. If you tell me the Christian God is a Loving God, YOU ARE A LIAR AND YOU HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE. There is nothing loving about that asshole and I can prove it.

If you tell me the God of the bible is both all just and all merciful. I can prove your god does not exist. Mercy is a suspension of Justice. The god can be Just or Merciful but not both.

How you define your god is everything. How you define your god will determine for me whether or not I will believe that god exists *I've seen no good evidence yet.* or whether I simply don't see why I should believe in that god *deist* or if I choose to believe that god does not exist.

Hope that helps. SIDE NOTE: (Belief in god is always an option for an atheist.) If you tell me your god is energy - well - I believe in that God but I already have a word for it called "Energy." So, why would I call it god? Please explain why I should think energy would be God? Many Atheists are also skeptics, this is not a requirement. So if you want them to believe in or understand your version of god you must clearly explain it to them,

arakish's picture
umbleThinker: "According to

HumbleThinker: "According to this definition, how is atheism NOT a world view."

Atheism is NOT a "world view." Atheism is simply the refusal to believe your sky faerie exists. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Can you provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that you sky faerie exists?

And the swarming begins...

rmfr

EDIT: corrected misspelling of user's Screen Name. Sorry HT.

CyberLN's picture
HumbleThinker, you wrote, “I

HumbleThinker, you wrote, “I can't speak for AJ777, but I'm not surprised he is avoiding your questions. Not because he doesn't have an answer, but because y'all swarm on him like the 8th plague. Hard to address all of the atheists in this forum that are desperately seeking Truth. : )”

Well, I just don’t buy that. AJ777 has indeed responded to questions many, many times. Those responses, however, do not actually answer the questions being asked. I don’t think he is having difficulty with the quantity of questions, I think he’s having difficulty with provisioning answers that don’t put in an uncomfortable place.

HumbleThinker's picture
Fair enough. @AJ777, you

Fair enough. @AJ777, you might be on your own with this one, bud.

Talyyn's picture
AJ777

AJ777

Do you believe God can do whatever he thinks with us and that is , per divine command theory (might is right), moral?

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