Reality comes to roost

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Talyyn's picture
And you AJ777 is only

And you AJ777 is only following a rule based on the supposed authority of a deity clearly invented by some desert tribe.

Tin-Man's picture
@AJ777 Re: ".... but on

@AJ777 Re: ".... but on atheism how can one justify those ideals as being correct and good when there is no standard by which to judge what is good?"

Hot damn! Finally! A good question from AJ! And I have a very simple and solid answer for it...

Personally, I believe the Holy Bible is an EXCELLENT standard by which to judge what is good. I just point to it and say, "See how the god in that book behaves?.... Well, if you do not act like that, then you should turn out to be a pretty good person."

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ AJ777

@ AJ777

but on atheism how can one justify those ideals as being correct and good when there is no standard by which to judge what is good? When a young person asks why sharing good fortune is a good thing how do you answer that?

I used to sit them down and when we were discussing behaviours ask how they would feel if their behaviour was directed at them, or how they feel when particular behaviours are directed at others. Children are in the main social animals, they don not see color, they do not see class, they see kindness, empathy, cruelty and desirable and undesirable behaviours.
No god or gods required. All an adult has to do is discuss, illustrate and help a child with those behavioural things. That is human morality...

Empathy is destroyed by faith based behaviour. It is replaced by sympathy, charity and contempt.

Oh yes, *waves at AJ 777" I actually exist even though you have yet to answer one of my posts....

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Sharing is part of the "treat

I'll take "Teaching empathy" for $1000 Alex?

Sharing is part of the "treat others as you have others treat you" concept. That's a lot better for teaching kindness and to help develop maturity in an individual, than saying God will be mad at you if you don't follow his rules..

CyberLN's picture
AJ777, you asked, “I agree

AJ777, you asked, “I agree those are good things to teach young people, but on atheism how can one justify those ideals as being correct and good when there is no standard by which to judge what is good? When a young person asks why sharing good fortune is a good thing how do you answer that?”

I taught my kids that we all share this planet. Treating it, and those with whom we share it, with respect produces a better quality of life. It’s not complicated. Teaching a three year old to share with another doesn’t take any mysterious philosophical fallderall. Basically, you tell them to be nice, share, then go play in the backyard. The habits get built. I saw it as my job as their parent to teach those behaviors. And, ya know what, AJ? It was successful. No gods needed. They are all decent human beings who treat others, themselves, and the planet with respect. They are nice people. Again, no gods required.

Sheldon's picture
AJ777 " on atheism how can

AJ777 " on atheism how can one justify those ideals as being correct and good when there is no standard by which to judge what is good? When a young person asks why sharing good fortune is a good thing how do you answer that?"

Your spiel might not seem so ludicrous if you could tell us why it is immoral to torture children? What kind of morality can't answer that?

"When a young person asks why sharing good fortune is a good thing how do you answer that?"

Because it helps promote general well being, and reduce suffering and want, because if I was in need I would appreciate someone doing this for me, because it would please me to know others had benefited from my help, because as societal animals life would be unbearable if we all looked out only for ourselves. The same as knowing that slavery, murder, and rapine are bad because they cause appalling suffering, despite your deity condoning them repeatedly in the bible.

David Killens's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

"I agree those are good things to teach young people, but on atheism how can one justify those ideals as being correct and good when there is no standard by which to judge what is good?"

Geez, we have been over this multiple times.

There are standards that can be used for moral decisions that do not require a bible. Yet you just keep going on and on, completely ignoring previous conversations.

I do not believe you are a complete moron AJ777, but this tactic of just repeating and ignoring will not work in here. You may not be a moron, but you are acting like one.

And the answer is ... well being. That is a very good standard to judge moral decisions.

shiningone's picture
" well being "

" well being "
Except when it comes to the well being of a human being in the process of creation. That's when the "atheists" here become as heartless as a theist god.

AJ777's picture
Tin-man, this doesn’t answer

Tin-man, this doesn’t answer my question, by what standard do you call someone a good person, if as you believe the God of the Christian Bible likely doesn’t exist, how does a fictional story establish an objective standard?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ AJ777

@ AJ777

*waves frantically* Ohhh OoooH over here, Me me *throws hand up in the air nearly dislocating shoulder* Meeee Meee...*

*Realises AJ777 is never going to see * Hey shit for brains " How does a fictional story establish an objective standard?" What are you ? Denser than a neutron Star? What part of "FICTION" do you not understand?

EVIDENCE that your "god of the Christian Bible (whichever that one is...Baal? The Egyptian ones mentioned? Jealous? Jesus? Sheesh I get so confused by them all) actually exists then we can start a rational conversation...Oh sorry...you cant see mee....*sobs quietly in the corner*

Talyyn's picture
@Old man shouts...

@Old man shouts...

I think AJ777 is more of a black hole, every communication is one-sided.

Algebe's picture
@AJ777: how does a fictional

@AJ777: how does a fictional story establish an objective standard?

Exactly. It doesn't.

The closest we have to an objective standard is the consensus view of society on what is right or wrong. That's also how we decide the meanings of words in the language that we share.

Searching for truth's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

while i agree with most things you say and applaud your efforts of trying convince others of what you believe, from experience, i will let you know you are wasting your time. Instead of a trying to convince someone to believe in something they don't due to their own beliefs, i would suggest maybe getting to understand how and hwy they believe what they do instead of trying to change their mind. If nothing else, at least you can begin to understand where they are coming regardless, of how illogical you may think they are. By the way, i am not an atheist, i am a Muslim and the reason i say this is because i tried what you are currently trying and found it to be a waste of time.

arakish's picture
Yet we have done so by asking

Yet we have done so by asking you questions you ALWAYS refuse to answer.

In wanting to know why you believe what you believe, I have these questions:

  • Why do you believe in something that cannot be proven?
  • If the Qu'ran is inerrant, then why do Muslims spend so much effort in silencing those who are critical against Islam, preferrably by beheading/killing them?
  • If Muhammad is so good and great, then why was he murderous genocidal war lord?
  • If Muhammad is so good and great, then why did he rape a 9 year old child?
  • If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is there no peace in any Muslim country?
  • If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is it so damned misogynistic?
  • If Islam is the only truth, then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE it is.
  • If Allah even exists, then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE it is.

All you ever do is dodge these question because of two reasons:

  1. You violate your own "research" directives, or
  2. You already know the answers and are afraid to admit the truth.

So much for "searching for truth" when you are too afraid of it.

rmfr

Searching for truth's picture
Wow you are 1 angry tree.

Wow you are 1 angry tree.

Sheldon's picture
Is it ever moral for a man in

Is it ever moral for a man in his fifties to have sex with a nine year old child?

No one cares what you think, liar....sorry, lion.

arakish's picture
Not anger. Just questions.

Not anger. Just questions. Questions you still refuse to answer because you already the answers refute Islam.

rmfr

David Killens's picture
Yea, if they ever remake a

Yea, if they ever remake a classic Martin Scorsese film, it will be "Raging Burl".

Searching for truth's picture
Hey Treeman,

Hey Treeman,

I am a little bored so I'll play along.

"Why do you believe in something that cannot be proven?" Prove that it can't be proven

"If the Qu'ran is inerrant, then why do Muslims spend so much effort in silencing those who are critical against Islam, preferrably by beheading/killing them?" Prove that these are really Muslims

"If Muhammad is so good and great, then why was he murderous genocidal war lord?" Prove he was a "murderous genocidal war lord"

"If Muhammad is so good and great, then why did he rape a 9 year old child?" Prove that his lie happened

"If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is there no peace in any Muslim country?" Prove that religion and not outside intervention by the US and Europe is the main cause of all the violence

"If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is it so damned misogynistic?" Prove that its misogynistic then also prove that misogyny isn't subjective.

"If Islam is the only truth, " Prove its not then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE

"If Allah even exists" Prove he does not then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE

Your turn treeman, i look forward to your answers.

Sheldon's picture
Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacies. Hitchens's razor applies.

Now, is it ever moral for a man in his fifties to have sex with a nine year old child? Or are you still too much of a cowardly (lion) to answer?

arakish's picture
@ X-Files Man

@ X-Files Man

Boy how many logical fallacies did you commit?

  1. argumentum ad ignorantiam
  2. endless loop (aka yes-no fallacy)
  3. straw man
  4. shifting burden of proof
  5. ad hominem
  6. circular logic
  7. sweeping generalization
  8. unfalsifiability
  9. lie
  10. confirmation bias
  11. biased generaliazton
  12. ad hoc rescue
  13. appeal to wishful thinking
  14. appeal to ridicule
  15. appeal to pity
  16. appeal to tradition
  17. appeal to incredulity

You really should download this document: Rhetological Fallacies. However I know you shall not because you are too afraid to face the truth.

All you have done is prove yourself false by making all of those fallacies. Again, you shall not answer the questions truthfully because you know the claims made are true and written in the book of lies you believe.

Your screen name "searching for truth" is pure bollocks.

rmfr

Searching for truth's picture
HAHAHAHAHAHA exactly what i

HAHAHAHAHAHA exactly what i expected from you the "Atheist dance" to find any and all sorry excuses to not answer an questions. Rent free, Treeman. Rent free.

Good luck, Treeman.

Hulk has left the building (thread)

Sheldon's picture
"Atheist dance" to find any

"Atheist dance" to find any and all sorry excuses to not answer an questions."

Irony overload, and that had the rank hypocrisy we've come to expect from SFT and his superstitious crutch he can't evidence, and his lies about objective morality, that he won't ever answer questions on.

"Hulk has left the building (thread)"

Yes, another "brave Sir Robin" from you. Your trolling is pathetic, but your cowardly mendacity is worse.

Is it ever moral for a man in his 50's to rape a nine year old child.

What kind of morality thinks raping a child is ok, and even venerated someone who does this?

Oh that's right, it's monotheistic religions, from the paedophile priests in the RCC, to Mohammed.

arakish's picture
@ searching

@ searching

HAHAHAHAHAHA exactly what i expected from you the "Atheist dance" to find any and all sorry excuses to not answer an questions. Rent free, Treeman. Rent free.

Good luck, Treeman.

Hulk has left the building (thread)

And just look at your pathetic excuse of the "Theist Dance."

The original questions:

  • Why do you believe in something that cannot be proven?
  • If the Qu'ran is inerrant, then why do Muslims spend so much effort in silencing those who are critical against Islam, preferrably by beheading/killing them?
  • If Muhammad is so good and great, then why was he murderous genocidal war lord?
  • If Muhammad is so good and great, then why did he rape a 9 year old child?
  • If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is there no peace in any Muslim country?
  • If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is it so damned misogynistic?
  • If Islam is the only truth, then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE it is.
  • If Allah even exists, then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE it is.

And your pathetic attempt at NOT answering:

Hey Treeman,

I am a little bored so I'll play along.

"Why do you believe in something that cannot be proven?" Prove that it can't be proven

"If the Qu'ran is inerrant, then why do Muslims spend so much effort in silencing those who are critical against Islam, preferrably by beheading/killing them?" Prove that these are really Muslims

"If Muhammad is so good and great, then why was he murderous genocidal war lord?" Prove he was a "murderous genocidal war lord"

"If Muhammad is so good and great, then why did he rape a 9 year old child?" Prove that his lie happened

"If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is there no peace in any Muslim country?" Prove that religion and not outside intervention by the US and Europe is the main cause of all the violence

"If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is it so damned misogynistic?" Prove that its misogynistic then also prove that misogyny isn't subjective.

"If Islam is the only truth, " Prove its not then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE

"If Allah even exists" Prove he does not then please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE

Your turn treeman, i look forward to your answers.

And then you may wonder why I conclude with:

All you ever do is dodge these question because of two reasons:

  1. You violate your own "research" directives, or
  2. You already know the answers and are afraid to admit the truth.

So much for "searching for truth" when you are too afraid of it.

And it goes without saying that it seems Muslims are the most afraid of answering direct questions about their beliefs.

At least some Christians do make an attempt. Of course, AJ777 ain't one of them. He also does the "Theist Dance" like you do.

And as always, when you confronted with these questions, you run. You should seriously consider changing your screen name from "searching for truth" to "searching for a reason to run."

Rent Free Hulkster. Rent Free. As Sheldon said, "You sought us out."

rmfr

Talyyn's picture
Hulk never ran from a fight.

Hulk never ran from a fight.

Sheldon's picture
OK, tell us why you believe

OK, tell us why you believe it is ever moral for a man in his fifties to have sex with a nine year old child?

You never tried to understand anyone here, as I recall you made the usual facile argument for superior morality for your superstitious beliefs, then refused to answer questions, or address any objections to your specious claims, then you made a snide but typically arrogant remark about you being lion and us sheep, then left. Now you poke your head from time to time to troll.

Is it ever moral for a man in his fifties to have sex with a nine year old child?

What kind of moral ascendancy can't know the answer to a question like that? Like AJ777, forever claiming moral superiority for his beliefs, but doesn't know why it is immoral to torture children.

NewSkeptic's picture
This from the big green dude

This from the big green dude who can't fathom the logical contradiction between omniscience and freewill.

Sorry, I had to type this since God always knew I would.

And watch out both of you, if historical trends continue, you'll both be trying to kill each other at some point, and/or one of you will be enjoying 72 fresh virgins each day while the other one roasts in eternal fire. After all, each of you thinks the other is hell-bound.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ SfT

@ SfT

i would suggest maybe getting to understand how and hwy[WHY] they believe what they do instead of trying to change their mind[s]

It is difficult to change a belief when it just don't exist. Sheesh, nearly a year on site and you still do not get it.

i am a Muslim and the reason i say this is because i tried what you are currently trying and found it to be a waste of time.

It is a waste of time because we have lie detectors at the entrances you muppet.

Sheldon's picture
" if as you believe the God

" if as you believe the God of the Christian Bible likely doesn’t exist, how does a fictional story establish an objective standard?"

The bible is a fictional story, so I might ask you the same question.

Why is it immoral to torture children?

Sapporo's picture
AJ777: Tin-man, this doesn’t

AJ777: Tin-man, this doesn’t answer my question, by what standard do you call someone a good person

Based purely on them doing acts I think are "good".

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