I challenge any and all to actually prove they have a relationship with a god. I hear it all the time: "God speaks to me", " I walk with god", so on and so forth. There isn't ANY evidence of this being true.
Just like all the nutcases at insane asylums that thought that they were Napoleon, they truly believe that they are Napoleon but it sin't true.
The thing is that people want to believe something and outside factors influence that belief. If Napoleon had never existed would these people claim to be Napoleon? I state that if no one have heard of god or had any outside brainwashing, they would never claim to have a relationship with said god. Thus we can infer that the relationship is purely imaginary and not real.
this is related to a condition called:
Grandiose Delusion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions
"exceptional relationship to a divinity or famous person.[6]" #6 of typical symptoms includes exceptional relationship with the divine.
I contend that all that profess a god and also contend that they have a relationship with said god suffer from this condition.
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Here!Here! (I hope this was the right time to use that)
I remember a comic once said "how come when God talks to Billy Graham everyone accepts it but when He talks to me it's schizophrenia?"
It had to be schizophrenia..... even in the bible he asked some dude to off his son on a mountain.....
Apparently nothing good comes of whenever god decides to talk to people.
That was a demonstration of a commandment: you see, Avram came from Sumer, which practiced human sacrifice, so G-d gave Avram a son, told him to sacrifice him, but at the last moment told him never to sacrifice his son. That way people would read this verse and get disgusted, causing them not to burn their children to molek.
the god of the bible accepted human sacrifices: Judges 11:30-39. Jephthah made a vow to God that, if God would give him victory against his enemies, then Jephthah would sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house upon his return. Jephthah defeated his enemies and his only daughter was the first thing that greeted him.... so he of course killed her, And this is a god that of course knew that the daughter and not the dog or a pig would be the first out the door. So Harry how do you like your god now??
I don't know that this is not a completely futile conversation on an atheist website. I can say that Christians often use the phrase "God told me" as it is a conversation stopper. To question one who uses this statement is to question God. That is the beauty of it. If one who is considered to be of authority uses this statement it can mobilise others and be used for both dangerous and good purposes. Even if it is used say to encourage the community to help the poor it is still a manipulative ploy that does not come from god but from man. You are very right it can not be proven that God speaks to anyone. That is why we are. Atheist. On the other side of the coin we can't prove god doesn't which is why so many people are easily deluded and deceived by it.
I'm not going to outright say your wrong about us not being able to disprove God. I am, however, going to say that we could riddle it with enough bulletholes to make it seem highly unlikely that God exists. I think that, instead of trying to totally disprove God, we should pursue this route instead.
Exactly! Barring a contradictory or incoherent definition for God, a believer can always dig deep enough to find some exotic, improbable defense. However, finding a defense for God that elevates his credibility all the way to the level of the Easter Bunny leaves something to be desired.
which god? you know there are thousands of them... right?
which god? you know there are thousands of them... right?
You are absolutely correct. One cannot logically prove a negative. The onus is of course to prove that someone has spoken to god and god has spoken to them, thus the dilemma for the theist. Also since it is a given that theist who claim that converse with god are either suffering from grandiose delusion or are just being deceitful. And you are correct for the motivation behind the claim that it is a toll to manipulate others to act on the behalf of the claimant. Essential what ever the purpose it is always bad no matter the intention as it compels people to act based on a falsehood and usually against their free will.
And all the mean long while the theists claim that God gives free will. I'm senseing some serious hypocrasy here.
Or they are telling the truth, but when this is so G-d gives them proof. For example, when G-d told Moses to bring a message to the Israelites, Moses tells G-d that they would not believe him, so G-d actually agrees with him and gives him miracles and wonders. He even reveals humseld to them all.
Extracted strait from my list of issues with the bible(which have yet to be done away with):
4. The Exodus has no archeological or historical evidence outside the bible
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Merneptah_Stele/Mern...
Egyptian record of conquering the Israelites.
http://beginningandend.com/did-the-exodus-really-happen-historical-evide...
Egyptian papyrus records plagues.
Not a reference is Israelites/Jews in Egypt, so it clearly can't be a reference to the Exodus. You will also notice that your source says this is the only reference to the Jews in the records of the ancient Egyptians; and since this isn't a reference to the Exodus, that means there can't be a reference to the Exodus. But I'm guessing that went over your head.
A reference to nasty drought, not to the Exodus.
Well. that is probably the story in the book. What proof or good evidence do you have that the book is true.. and please include as part of your response proof or evidence that gods exist and that gods inspired the writing of the bible
This video is mandatory for this subject: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU
A personal relationship can't be proved, unless their god can either do their bidding or divulge information that couldn't be gotten otherwise, repeatedly and consistently.
And that has of course never happened, and I don't recommend anyone to hold their breath...
God people claim some pretty fantastic things. They must either really believe it or think other people are low watt bulbs.
The pragmatic thank you for sharing the link to the video. That is exactly why I'm the Compelledunbeliever. I was once compelled to believe in God. Now I know better and have no choice in my conclusion.
Mind if I copy down those last two sentences?
Sir Random spread the gospel!
*Mowtown style music plays* OOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!!! , AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! .....
Watched the video. Why would anyone feel compelled to believe? Clearly, every sentient being has a free-will choice either to believe or not to believe based on a combination of the evidence to which they are exposed and their ability to honestly and rationally evaluate that evidence and follow it to it's logical conclusion. No?
Yes, you can have what they decribe as a relationship with god. You can feel someone with you, without being mad, can feel connected to a higher being - an inner or heavenly mentor. Like a very wise imaginary friend, though it's all from your brain. I have a hypothesis where the actual FEELING of another, loving, protecting, watchful being may perhaps in parts come from, in our psychological makeup.
(A thing in the Bowlby developement of Baby theory put me on this track..) (Yet to be investigated..)
I also remember sitting in a church, not really a believer anymore, but still thinking homeopathy and stuff might be true - so why not some kind of metaphisical power.. blabla..
So I remember sitting in a church and have really enlightening talks with Jesus - about nonconformity.
I used to also daydream a lot, have inner mentors - invisible people to discuss ideas with and I used to get amazing answers - it's like self mentoring or working in a team with your own brain, but feels like a second person.
Oh, yes, I don't take any kind of drugs and am a mostly law abiding, hard working, hopefully not too irresponsible citizen..
Lemna Minor "Bowlby developement of Baby theory"
I didn't know what that was so I was trying to look that up. Am I in the right place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory ?
@Nyarlathotep Yes, attachment theory.The "God" feeling that's my own thought, so far - Bowlby describes, how the infant learns to rely on mother being there-even when she is not present. So the child ist dort of relaxed, even when alone for a bit.
I remember feeling "watched over" when I was very, very small (I have memories form before one year of age - only a few, but a lot of very early memories of situations, pictures, feelings from the time zero-to five..)
When I was pre school age, I attributed the feeling of "always being watched" to god ( we were a moderate catholic family, back then).
I know, a lot of peole have very strong emotional relations to a "deity", that watches over them. I can still FEEL it, actually - but I am thankfully aware that it's chemistry in my brain and am perfectly fine about that.
I still hold internal conversation with my "higher" self - or with imaginary listeners - it's a great way to get thoughts clear, and not go mad at times..
I don't think this possible? link from internalized mom to "feeling" god to be there has yet be explored - so it's only a hypothesis that this might be part of our innate willingness to believe in the supernatural.
Well it is certainly interesting. Thanks for the info. I think I might have been disorganized/disoriented attachment kid (if that is the right way to phrase that). My childhood was, well let's call it "odd".
I have something to ask, kinda related to the Topic Above, since I am an Atheist - I oppose God's Existence, accept Rationality and Open-mindedness. But does that mean I have to give up on believing that the Human Body actually has a Spirit (Soul), but I say it doesn't go to Heaven, it's actually Placed in another Infant (as Soon as the Fetus emerged in the Impregnated Woman) so as to Initialize the "Reincarnation Process" as it is said in some Beliefs. 'Cause even as Atheists, we should at least consider about that right?
You can believe what you want but to believe in a soul and a form of reincarnation isn't atheism. Although "atheism" is just a label that theist made up when they invented their god.
Here's my take. Life force is a form of energy. That energy dissipates when you die. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change form and collective quantity. I don't believe in reincarnation because it assumes life force has knowledge instead of the chemical reaction it truly is. It suggests that there is a guiding force besides physics that directs life forces(energy). That eludes to a deity or god.
Why consider something that isn't even remotely proven? I could make all manner of suggestions to consider, but without any proof to support such assumptions those suggestions are worthless. Also, can you prove a body has a soul? An atheist requires proof of such a thing.
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