As a believer in Jesus Christ and his message i still wholeheartedly think that Religion is the cause for so much evil and the greatest deception. Interestingly enough it is the Religious that had the hardest time with Jesus teachings.... It is the Religious that Jesus(God) chastised the most and the ones that accepted him the least.... The common people loved him more than the Religion and its leaders and that is why i believe that they killed the only innocent one. It was a huge threat to their power base and to there money flow after he kicked the Money changers out of the temple. I think if Jesus was here on earth and teaching the same thing he did then that the religious leaders would treat him the exact same way. Because the message of religion is exactly opposite of his message to humanity.
The ULTIMATE Lie of Religion is that you CAN do certain things to be "Good Enough". The Proponents of Religion love this Idea as it gives them immense amount of control over followers of the Religion. In Non-Religous systems then the State has the Ultimate control as they are the highest authority in the Land. In my estimation and observation The State is every bit as able to wreak Havoc on humanity as Religion. (See Nazi Germany ca. 1932-1945, or Communist Russia)
After continually researching and collecting information and facts on all the various world view's and belief systems both modern and historical, that try to explain our existence as a species. I am continually impressed with one glaring difference between Jesus message to us and every other belief system. If you are privy to some information that would show this to be otherwise then i would very much love to look over it. ;-).
Category I systems: No meaning systems.
In this category i would put all secular, humanist, and post modern world views. There is No God, Life has developed as a fact of random chance, there is no absolute right or wrong but merely the right and wrong as discerned on an individual level. There is no absolute meaning to life other than the meaning you choose to believe at any given moment in time. You live your life then its lights out and game over.
I can see the appeal to this belief system as it subjects me to no higher or absolute authority. As long as i abide by the RULES of the State then everything else is fair game. Truly the rules of the state are really optional also i just have to suffer the consequences but only if i am caught.
A. In this system there is nothing really that you must or must not do to reach your destination as there is no destination to reach.
Category II systems: Do over systems . Reincarnation.
In this category I would put all world view and belief systems that espouse a belief in Recycled life. In this system there can by an absolute truth to experience, learn, or otherwise discover. In the attempt to "find" this truth we are fated to continually live, die, and live again, hopefully making progress from one lifetime to the next on our journey to a final destination of enlightenment.
A. In this system there are a set of Rules of things that you can do and things you must not do in order to reach the end of your journey. (IE. steps forward and steps backwards.)
Category III systems: Earn your way systems. (All Religious systems that do not fall in Cat. I and II and the majority there of)
The majority of Religions follow this model with only the rules differing from system to system. In the strictest sense I would call this the definition of Religion. These systems teach that you must do several things and not do several other things in order to find favor with God and successfully complete your journey and reach your eternal reward.
Category IV: True teaching of Jesus.
There is nothing that you can do in and of yourself...... You cannot be good enough to get to heaven..... You cannot escape eternal damnation and judgement of God. You are infected with a virus that you cannot cure yourself of.... in the short your screwed. From my observations and view of humanity over the ages I find this to be very true. Now if this was the End of the Story it would be the bleakest and most depressing of all belief systems. One that makes you feel the Most Unloved and Betrayed by your creator... In fact even down right Angry and Hostile towards him.
Luckily for Us that is NOT the end of the Story. ;-).
Jesus teaching continued....
Because I LOVE you so Much....... Because you are my heart.... I am Willing..... I am offering.... To take all your wickedness.... all your debt.....to take your JUST punishment upon myself.... so that you can be redeemed...but when you accept my offer you must agree to turn from your previous ways and follow me to paradise..... Trust in me for everything and i will lead you to paradise.... I am the Way the Truth and the Life...... all else is death and destruction.
If you have made that choice then you understand what i am talking about... some things you can only know by experiencing them first hand...... If you have not choose THE Way and continue on the other path then the whole premise just seems foolish and way to easy.
I know of no other system filled with more Love and Truth then this. I know of no other hope for humankind then this. I find it foolish that Mankind can be good enough to save themselves from themselves. I find it foolish to believe that somehow technology will eventually save us from our own inherent natures. In my estimation it is the very Nature of humankind that is the greatest Proof for this Absolute Truth.
As Always though i am very open to any evidence, facts, ideas that can show another Point of View.
With an utter devotion to Truth,
Matthjar.
In short
Salvation through Jesus ---- Jesus pays for your travel to final destination.
Religion ---- You earn your own travel costs.
Non Religion ------- There is no destination to travel too. Just subjective wandering until death.
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In short theres no evidence. A fundamentalist christian lawyer attempted to appeal jesus's conviction. Crazy as it may seem it was treated seriously. The judge decided that they could not prove he existed, was even tried or was even sentenced.
If your Jesus pays for my destination then his death was all part of your god's perfect plan. The reason 'they killed the only innocent one' is because your god planned it that way.
When I see all the blood shed, evil, and hatred going on in the name of some god (I don't care which one) that's because mankind created that god in his own image. Hateful, greedy, warlike, seeking power and control. Demanding to be loved and worshipped or else.
I can see how you might interpret it that way ....;-). And if he had stayed dead that would have been quite unfortunate turn of events indeed.... I SO SO agree with you and was the whole point of my whole Thread...... All of that stuff perpetuated by Man in the name of some God he created just to gain power and control over the week.... It clearly shows the true depths and depravity of Man..... That is why Jesus message to us is Not a Religion..... all religions require that MAN do XYZ to gain the favor of God.... which inherently goes to show me that it prolly just the invention of humanity in an attempt to control others...... Nah Jesus just wants to give you something for free....... Don't worry he wont force you to take the free gift if you don't want it or think you need it..... thats not the way he rolls.... In fact most of the basis of morality that athiest's use is the same one that Jesus himself spoke of 2k years ago..... Do unto others as you would have them do unto you aka the Golden Rule....Love your neighbor as yourself.....
Good point if the christian god was real how can they seriously believe he loves them after all they have done and are still doing.
Very insightful Question Lmale...... That is the amazing thing about the Christian God he is actually quite merciful ..... He actually is not much different than any good modern day father would treat his own children..... At least as a father myself i Know that i will always LOVE my Sons regardless of what they do ...... I might not condone stupid stuff they do ... but i will always love them......
And to be completely honest I really don't even like to call myself a Christian since the Christian Church prolly has just as many unbelievers in at as the rest of Modern day society.... No i prefer to just call myself a Disciple of Jesus..... ;-)...
And it somehow is worse when all these people supposedly Claim to follow Jesus and yet the impact on their lives is virtually Null and Void.... it makes me suspect.... but it is not for me to judge..... but it does seem worse then say if someone that doesn't know his teachings and is ignoring them...... just my 2 cents worth.....
I've read just about every version of the bible, in several languages, and frankly, I don't see a lot of mercy in there. It looks like a complete mixed bag of violence and hedonism which sometimes results in non-violence.
So did you never read the old testament?
I like confusing theists. There all god is love then im like judges leviticus deuteronomy they go but the 10 commandments made those obsolete then i slam down my winning stroke 'oh so that means no one suffered from the old laws then'.
Lmale ftw :)