Science Unspoken Axiom #1: Deities are nonsense

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sourcecodewizard's picture
Science Unspoken Axiom #1: Deities are nonsense

Many children are brainwashed into believing the irrational idea that the existence of a Creator cannot be proven. Technically this is correct since nothing can ever be proven completely even our own existence. But in terms of the spectrum of knowledge, the fact that our world is designed is more certain that the existence of our parents or even our perception of reality.

First, radio static will never produce a valid radio program. Neither will TV noise produce a valid TV program. So how could molecules randomly create working computers? It does not make any sense.

As for evidence, Earth is filled with working computers that replicate and self-heal using nanotechnology. EVIDENCE. Now imagine SETI found a star flickering in repetition. Imagine they recorded the flickers as binary numbers, saved them into a .mpeg file and found that they produced a movie showing the correct location of the star relative to all others along with daily alien life. Once it was verified that the signal had origins outside of our solar system, 99% of humans would regard this as solid evidence of alien intelligence outside our solar system. Now compare the two: 1) Flickering Light, 2) Planet filled with networked computers. EVIDENCE.

Also, anyone who believes that science can explain the origin of life needs to get a science lesson or start producing some EVIDENCE. Notice the word is capitalized indicating it is important.

Science fantasy combined with conjecture and wishful thinking have built this magical world of “what if land” where people actually believe that there is some factual, scientific basis to explain how life began when this is not even remotely based on EVIDENCE. It is a faith, pure and simple.

To counter their lack of evidence, science has dubbed the phrase “God of Gaps” thereby 1) glorifying their lack of EVIDENCE and 2) drawing attention away from the EVIDENCE of a planet filled with self aware computers.

To anyone using logic it is clear that our reality must have been designed. The big problem is trying to figure out the personality of the designer(s). The Christian version of an omnipotent, totally benevolent designer is tough to reconcile with a lot of the stuff that has happened on Earth. Here is where logic cannot help us but can still guide us.

I believe the existence of evil by an omnipotent, totally benevolent creator can be explained by the following Christian principles:
1)God knows how to make it all better. When it is over everyone will agree it is worth it.
2)We are world builders and being a world builder is a sacred trust.
3)Hence, this is a proving ground where we prove we can be trusted
Free will. No stencils. Paint whatever you want but be prepared to face the shame of painting a sinfull life.

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WrongVerb's picture
If a god existed, it wouldn

If a god existed, it wouldn't be something that needed to be proved. It would be something that could be observed. I'm not talking about metaphors for using one's imagination ("seek him seems you shall find" "the universe is pretty so God exists" "where does love come from" etc). I'm talking about empirical observation, no different than I'd you were observing a mountain or the color blue, or the planet Mars.

If a god existed, you'd be able to give me a set of concrete instructions to follow in order to observe it. I can, for instance, describe how to construct a telescope, where to direct it in the sky, and at what time, and you'll be able to observe Mars. But instead of that, for any god, including the Christian god, no such instructions exist. Therefore, absent any new observations, one cannot accept that any god, including the Christian god exists.

sourcecodewizard's picture
unless he had a reason to be

unless he had a reason to be hidden. clearly this is the teaching of Christianity.

David Killens's picture
@sourcecodewizard

@sourcecodewizard

"unless he had a reason to be hidden. clearly this is the teaching of Christianity."

The god who made a great flood, wiped out cities (Sodom and Gomorrah) with fire and brimstone, did all kinds of shit in front of crowds, has thousands of churches prominently around the globe, but is now playing hide-and-seek?

How can you reconcile this?

Do you know the nature of your god?

sourcecodewizard's picture
The O.P. answers this.

The O.P. answers this.

David Killens's picture
Please, no evasion, just a

Please, no evasion, just a simple yes or no.

Do you know the nature of your god?

sourcecodewizard's picture
no.

no.
I have a sense of that nature of Jesus and I am convinced that His teachings are the correct way to live.
Lots of unanswered Qs no doubt.
But if He came in here knowing full well what was waiting for Him, then I will listen to what He has to say.
And He claimed that His words would be spread over the whole Earth back when no one was even writing them down and now they are. Who does that? Here in 2019. Who has the whole world keep track of the year based on His birthday? One man. that's who. Do I doubt? Sure I do, if I didn't then, according to Him, I could tell a mountain to throw itself in the sea and it would obey me. So I take that to mean that everyone has doubts cause I don't see mountains throwing themselves in the sea. But the guy has a lot of wisdom. More than me or any of the jokers that I have seen in this world. He speaks of the correct way to live of this I believe. I think we are the show and they are watching in numbers that make the size of our universe insignificant in comparison. We are highly regarded and the fallen one does not like that, because he wants it like it was back in the day.

One thing I do know is logic. Direct X, openGL, CUDA, C, C++…watched them all grow up, while walking the walk. Anyone who doubts that, let's have a programming contest. Hat's off to the *very* few people who can beat me at what I do.

And using this gift of logic that I never earned, I can say with certainty, as objective fact, that a genius built this place. That is really the point of the OP.

In Spirit's picture
Sourcecodewizard

Sourcecodewizard

Consider me a layman so speak in simple terms please. Are you implying the existence of a christian god is real?

The OP gives your thought on it but it is merely a belief. I can never believe in a god that has a necessity to create pain for the better good of mankind. I know of no sane parent that wishes that upon their children. A truly omnipotent creator that means well if one exists, is acting out like mere mortals then. Let me punish you so you can learn. Humanity has used terrible forms of punishment to indoctrinate or to "make them learn" and yet we are moving away from those methods. Are we becoming better than god? Or perhaps as Jesus says "have you forgotten that ye are gods?" What that means, I don't know. I hate quoting the books because it's always pulling straws back and forth.

Why does god get credit for the Christian personality and not credit for another god personality from another faith? Did Jesus not say to the teachers that they did not know his father/god. Thus can I assume that the God that was being preached by everyone was incorrect, thus removing all personality traits given to that god? Can it be that this father Jesus speaks of must have different personality traits and perhaps even not like any god we have defined? Perhaps not even a god at all?

I'm not saying there's nothing out there. But what that is isn't clear to me yet. Is it ET or something more? Which are you stating?

David Killens's picture
In Spirit, if this

In Spirit, if this hypothetical god is so unpredictable and erratic, then how can you state with certainty that this god had his son die for our sins?

Maybe this "he died for your sins" is just another prank/punk on us by this god.

Let's see how many fools I can con with this one, he thinks ......

In Spirit's picture
David Killens

David Killens

I don't believe that if there was a god that he would sacrifice his son for our sins.

Again, any sane human parent would detest such an act never mind the thought....unless of course you lived during the age of Baal where such a belief was 'acceptable doctrine'.

Sounds like a Hollywood movie that needs to add drama for effect.

David Killens's picture
Thank you for agreeing with

Thank you for agreeing with me In Spirit. This sacrifice stuff just does not make sense (to me), although it is the cornerstone of the entire christian dogma. But what really makes me shake my head is that this jesus character did not really die. He had a rough weekend, spent three days in heavenly therapy, did a quick curtain call, then returned to heaven. So it was a fake sacrifice at best, because the individual that was sacrificed was never going to die.

But what monster would ever sacrifice any of their children? That goes beyond any ethical and moral boundaries, it is the land of barbaric cruelty carried to it's monstrous extreme.

sourcecodewizard's picture
Keep in mind that our

Keep in mind that our "reality" could be the next step in Hollywood realism where they wipe the actors minds to get the "real" emotion. Hence they are all watching and everyone agreed before entering, signed contracts and the whole deal.

Clearly note, that I am not at all, in any way advocating that this is correct, but simply acknowledging it as a possibility and one that would put cast an entirely different view on morality.

David Killens's picture
I do not agree with this post

I do not agree with this post. What you are doing is inventing a grand excuse that covers all contingencies. If a flaw in your reasoning is exposed, then you will fall back on this proposition.

My experience and the experiences of billions of people indicate that we live in THIS world, bereft of being fooled or programmed. All evidence points to this, while your "we are all brains in vats" is unproven. And since you claim to be an intelligent person, then the evidence of "brains in vats" must be substantial enough to have traction.

Anyone can postulate anything if proof is not required. I can suggest that our universe is just a fart bubble from a giant invisible pixie. Since I am incapable of defending this position (just like your "brain in a vat" hypothesis) each carries equal weight.

I require proof, not just assertions that are untestable.

sourcecodewizard's picture
I conclude that a genius must

I conclude that a genius must have designed this world as objective fact.

After that it gets really messy, kind of like being a parent.

Let me ponder.....

David Killens's picture
@sourcecodewizard

@sourcecodewizard

That is a cop-out, just a fabricated excuse in case you run across a difficult question. Your god designed this universe, started the program, and any unforeseen or unexpected event was just "shit happens".

sourcecodewizard's picture
His question was about the

His question was about the Christian faith. I agree it is a faith. You have to "believe".
Yes it was a difficult question but not about the logical fact that a genius designed it all.
It is a question about the personality of that genius.

If you guys cannot follow simple logic, then there is no hope to get any further.

arakish's picture
@ source code that does not

@ source code that does not work

logical fact that a genius designed it all

OK, damnit. What “logical fact”?

You have been repeatedly asked for the OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE of "this" fact and have provided nothing more than idiotic, inane, imbecilic, insane, irrational, and invalid statements that still have nothing to do with reality.

Additionally, you have been repeatedly asked for the OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE of that MPG file SETI created and yet cannot do so. Why? Because that MPG file does not exist.

Get out of your mommy's basement, go back to school, quit smoking that weed all the time, do not skip any classes, pay attention, and try learning something. Please.

I seriously doubt you do any computer programming going by you posts. If you do, then provide links where we download your crappy software and check it out for ourselves.

Also, start visiting arXiv and download some real science journal papers instead of that bullshit from AiG, CARM, ICR, etc. WWW sites. There are other sites, but that should get you started.

rmfr

David Killens's picture
@sourcecodewizard

@sourcecodewizard

"If you guys cannot follow simple logic, then there is no hope to get any further."

Another cop-out. Your so-called logic is a confused mish-mash of presuppositional crap that you expect people to willingly accept. And when you encounter resistance, it falls back to "you can't follow my wonderful logic".

It seems to me that you are preparing your exit strategy, claiming that no one can comprehend your flawless and wonderful logic. But the truth is that what you propose is pure donkey poo, a confused assemblage of nonsense built on a foundation of insanity.

WrongVerb's picture
If your god is hidden, as in

If your god is hidden, as in not exchanging energy within the universal realm we share with said god, then it doesn't have any impact at all on or lives and we can consider it to be irrelevant.

sourcecodewizard's picture
hidden does not imply non

hidden does not imply non involved. Just that we cannot see him.
He has his reasons. Keep in mind he is smarter than any of us. A lot smarter.

WrongVerb's picture
Saying your god is a lot

Saying your god is a lot smarter than any of us implies several things:

1. That this god has some intelligence.
2. That its intelligence is measurable.
3. If said intelligence is measurable, then that god must not be very well hidden.

So which is it? Is it hidden, or are you making an objective statement about the intelligence of your god?

Diotrephes's picture
sourcecodewizard,

sourcecodewizard,

"hidden does not imply non involved. Just that we cannot see him."

People saw God all the time in the Bible. The Israelites had picnics with him. Moses talked to him face to face. And didn't countless people see and interact with the Jesus character?

Maybe you are discussing a different God character instead of the biblical one? Can you name thespecific diety that you worship? There are thousands of the critters and they are all different so you need to be very specific and use the deity's name.
http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Deities

sourcecodewizard's picture
When Jesus spoke of His

When Jesus spoke of His Father. That's the one.
And, I do not recall Moses ever actually seeing His face but rather a burning bush....source perhaps?

I do believe there are many, many divine beings inhabiting many, many worlds with the galaxies and stars we see being a small sampling of the extent.

I view our world as a kind of nursery for divine beings. Technically, we are divine but we are so screwed up (from that stuff called sin) that it greatly limits our power to the state that we see here. They hide it all from us because they are studying us. Afterward they are going to rebuild the whole thing and many of us will be there to help. Other people will help build a different world filled with the people who chose not to follow Jesus. And no one can say they didn't know because everyone had a chance. Building worlds is a lot of fun but it is also serious business as every parent knows.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ SCW

@ SCW

Other people will help build a different world filled with the people who chose not to follow Jesus.

You write as if the existence of this jesus figure is a fact. It is, in fact, a mere supposition on your part. If this is the quality of your argument then it fails.

In Spirit's picture
Sourcecodewizard

Sourcecodewizard

"When Jesus spoke of His Father. That's the one."

Is it also the one from Genesis? The one in the Garden who claims to be our creator?

If your response is yes, I am ready to challenge that by using your very own books through logic and the scriptures in Genesis.

Diotrephes's picture
sourcecodewizard,

sourcecodewizard,

"And, I do not recall Moses ever actually seeing His face but rather a burning bush....source perhaps?"

1. Exodus 24:9-11 (TLB) = "9 Then Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up into the mountain. 10 And they saw the God of Israel; under his feet there seemed to be a pavement of brilliant sapphire stones, as clear as the heavens. 11 Yet, even though the elders saw God, he did not destroy them; and they had a meal together before the Lord."

2. Exodus 33:11 (TLB) = Inside the tent the Lord spoke to Moses face-to-face, as a man speaks to his friend. Afterwards Moses would return to the camp, but the young man who assisted him, Joshua (son of Nun), stayed behind in the Tabernacle.

3. Exodus 33:20-23 (TLB) = "20 But you may not see the glory of my face, for man may not see me and live. 21 However, stand here on this rock beside me. 22 And when my glory goes by, I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed. 23 Then I will remove my hand, and you shall see my back but not my face.”

4. Judges 13:22-23 (ERV) =22 Manoah said to his wife, “We have seen God. Surely we will die because of this.”
23 But his wife said to him, “The Lord does not want to kill us. If he wanted to kill us, he would not have accepted our burnt offering and grain offering. He would not have shown us all these things or told us this.”

sourcecodewizard's picture
nice. I am not very well

nice. I am not very well versed in the OT.

According to Christianity, Moses would have been talking to Jesus, The Father before He had been born in the flesh as The Son.

My total opinion on this is that God built a video game in an all knowing state of mind but He also likes to jump inside and actually play the game. Usually He does this in Heaven because it is a lot like Earth but way, way better because people there do not act like jerks at all, ever...no sin. When He was reborn as Jesus it was a journey from Son to Father explaining why there are things The Father knows that Jesus did not, like when He would return.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Sourcecodewizard

@ Sourcecodewizard

My total opinion on this is that God built a video game in an all knowing state of mind but He also likes to jump inside and actually play the game. Usually He does this in Heaven because it is a lot like Earth but way, way better because people there do not act like jerks at all, ever...no sin. When He was reborn as Jesus it was a journey from Son to Father explaining why there are things The Father knows that Jesus did not, like when He would return.

Any rational person who reads this complete word salad would form the same opinion as myself I would think. I rest my case.

Diotrephes's picture
sourcecodewizard,

sourcecodewizard,

"My total opinion on this is that God built a video game in an all knowing state of mind but He also likes to jump inside and actually play the game."

Since all dieties are imaginary you are free to give your's whatever attibutes and qualities you want it to have. But it will always remain imaginary in your own mind.

sourcecodewizard's picture
According to people in here,

According to people in here, we are all just a bunch of random patterns anyway. Magic magnets jostling together to form people all on their own. Poofing into existence without any purpose or reason, just.....there. Man you guys are intelligent.

Calilasseia's picture
No, the people who thinks the

No, the people who thinks the universe was poofed into existence without any purpose or reason, are people like you, who think a magic man did it.

Those of us who paid attention in science classes, recognise that actual tenured cosmologists regard testable natural processes as the reason for this. I suggest you read some of their research papers and learn something.

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