SFT

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NewSkeptic's picture
@SFT

@SFT

"The irony lol"

What irony? Let's look up the definition, shall we?

1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
2. a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.
3. a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.

Please explain the irony of my comment that it is never moral for smelly, hairy, dirty dessert dwelling 50-something pervert to have sex with a nine year old. I just don't see the irony. (ad hominem adjectives added on purpose)

Only someone who beliefs the utter trash that you do would add a "lol" to the thought of your pedophile prophet having sex with a nine year old (ok, he did only thigh her when she was 6, what a guy!)

"Why does that seem to bother you? It's not like you believe it. Do you?"

Of course not, I actually use my brain. It doesn't bother me at all if you want to believe that moronic bullshit. It is of concern when the faithful implement practices in the real world to kill and maim non-believers, a hallmark today of the "religion of peace".

"What evidence you got that it doesn't? Oh, and I have all the evidence I need."

As has been explained to you numerous times, no evidence is required to disprove a hypothesis offered without evidence. I will admit though, with a skull that thick, it would be difficult for any knowledge to seep into it. All the evidence you need is obviously none since you've offered none.

***Edited to offer definition of "irony".

Searching for truth's picture
@Newskeptic

@Newskeptic

“Please explain the irony of my comment”

An atheist trying to argue morality when he/she believes morality is subjective. So your opinion is irrelevant and it’s your personal opinion and I don’t care about your personal opinion. That’s the ironic part. I hope that straight forward enough for you. By the way, I am not saying Atheists are immoral people, I am saying it’s hypocritical and ironic that someone that does not believe in objective morality is trying to take a stance on something they believe is subjective.

“It is of concern when the faithful implement practices in the real world to kill and maim non-believers”

If it concerns you so much stop talking from behind your keyboard, join an army and go kill them. Talk is cheap.

“no evidence is required to disprove a hypothesis offered without evidence”

1) Same old easy and cheap cop out
2) So you are saying (and please correct me if I am wrong) that since according to your standard of evidence (whatever it might be) I can’t prove and deity and using the same standard of evidence you are unable to disprove means its does not exist? Once again, wow the irony and hypocrisy.

xenoview's picture
@SFT

@SFT
You do realize there is no objective morality. If your morals come from your god they are subjective, that is to say they come from your god's mind.

When enough people agree that something is immoral, they make laws against it.

Searching for truth's picture
Please come up with some new

Please come up with some new material

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xenoview's picture
@STF

@STF

Does the thought of subjective morals scare you?

My morals come from me and society. I treat people how I want to be treated.

Searching for truth's picture
No it does not because

No it does not because falsehood does not scare me and has no effect on me

xenoview's picture
@SFT

@SFT

What evidence do you have that morals are objective?

Subjective morals are not falsehood.

Sheldon's picture
Searching for truth "No it

Searching for truth "No it does not because falsehood does not scare me"

Yes, I think we have all noticed how at ease you are with duplicity.

Is it objectively moral for a man in his 50's to rape a nine year old child?

Sheldon's picture
From the man espousing

From the man espousing archaic superstition, you're just too funny.

Tin-Man's picture
@Hulkster Re: "If it

@Hulkster Re: "If it concerns you so much stop talking from behind your keyboard, join an army and go kill them. Talk is cheap."

Been there, done that. Even lost a few friends in the process. Any other helpful advice?

Oh, since we are on the subject of giving advice, I have a great idea. Perhaps you could go visit a few Middle Eastern Islamic law countries and have a sit-down with the government officials and a few local citizens and explain to them how they are not properly following the Koran in the proper context. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and Yemen come to mind for starters. I mean, they have only been living their lives under Islamic rule for a few hundred years or more, so it is quite obvious somebody there has totally misunderstood and misinterpreted all those nasty verses in the Koran about how non-believers should be hated and killed and wiped from the face of the planet. No doubt they would listen earnestly to your logic and reason when you tell them how their methods of practicing the Muslim faith are wrong and that they are giving the Islamic religion a bad reputation. All those misguided jihadists and suicide bombers simply need a bit of proper teaching from a devout follower of Mohammad to show them the error of their ways. I find it fascinating how you so lightly suggest somebody go "pick up a gun and go kill them." And you also tell us to go out and talk to other Muslims and do research, as if everybody on here are just simple dolts who have never left their own home towns. Have you ever been face-to-face with a TRUE Muslim jihadist soldier? I seriously doubt it. I have, though. Several times. And I can tell you from personally speaking with a few that any TRUE Muslim of the Islamic faith HATES anybody who is not Muslim and does not follow the teaching of your precious Mohammad. Let me know how that little "diplomatic trip" to the Middle East works out for you.

Searching for truth's picture
Just because you seem pissed

Just because you seem pissed off and raging doesn't mean anything yo said (other than your service part) is true. And if I thought these countries would listen I (and others far more qualified than I am) would do what you suggest. I do my part and what's I can here at home. I can't control the world. If you want to beleive yourself or others about the death and terror of the Quran, then go ahead but I can 100% assure it's not the same book/teachings I am reading from. Oh and the if you think an extremists (of any kind) is the best person to understand that communities point of view then you are seriously deluded. And let's not really get in to the whole Middle East and it's dimplomacy while I'll be the first to admit it's f'd up let's not pretend like American soldiers really went their to deliver "freedom" or whatever it was masked as.

Talyyn's picture
Diplomacy and the acts of

Diplomacy and the acts of flawed human beings are irrelevant for the validity of your claims here.

Tin-Man's picture
@Hulkster Re: "Just because

@Hulkster Re: "Just because you seem pissed off and raging doesn't mean..."

LOL... Pissed off? Raging?.... *chuckle*... Who's mad? Not me. If anything, I actually find the whole thing rather amusing to a certain degree, albeit a bit disturbing, of course. Oh, and I will be the FIRST to admit that I am under NO delusions that America's reasons for sending the military into the Middle East are questionable, at best. (But that is another discussion altogether, and definitely not one for any particular public forum. As a former soldier, there are some opinions that are better kept to myself in certain matters. And, besides, I am no politician or bureaucrat.) Regardless, none of that has anything to do with my encounters while I was over there. Because whether we were there for legitimate reasons or not, it really has no bearing whatsoever on how non-believers (of Islam) are viewed by the Muslim people of those areas. And whether you believe anything I say or not makes no difference to me one way or the other.

Now, I for one think it is great that you can take your religion and be a good person because of it, despite some of the horrendous teachings included in it. (Although I admit it surely puzzles me as to why you or anybody else would need something like that to be a good person.) Still, what you seem to be unable to grasp (or maybe you just prefer to intentionally ignore it) is the fact you have to "cherry pick" from your holy book in the same way Christians have to cherry pick from the bible and ignore all the other "uncomfortable" teachings that in many cases go totally against current laws (especially in the U.S.). However, there are many millions of individuals and a multitude of organized groups that take the teachings of the bible and the Koran and follow them "to the letter" in the true fashion they were originally written to be followed. Those individuals and groups (ISIS, Taliban, Al-Qaeda, KKK, Arian Nation, White Supremacists, etc.) are the actual TRUE followers of their respective religions. All others are simply "wanna-bes" who want to claim the faith but follow only those parts that make them feel good and give them a warm fuzzy feeling inside. And, thankfully, a majority of those "wanna-bes" are pretty much as harmless as fuzzy kittens. And in many cases even very generous and caring folks. And that is great. Fantastic. But that still DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT that all of those other individuals and groups are following the exact same "holy books" as those meek and mild kittens. The difference is that all those other individuals/groups do not ignore the parts of those "holy books" that make the kittens uncomfortable. And to make matters worse, most of those individuals/groups actually ACT on what they believe to be orders directly from their respective "divine higher powers" and wholeheartedly believe they will be rewarded for following those orders regardless of how heinous they may be. So, feel free to delude yourself all you want, but make no mistake those Islamic groups ARE reading from the same book you use. And those Christian groups are using the same bible my Mom, Granny, and Uncle used when they were alive. But - hey - if for whatever reason(s) you require some fairytale book written by uneducated desert nomads several hundred years ago to help make you a good person, then by all means please keep reading it. No skin off my nose. As I have said before, I don't care what you do or do not believe, as long as those beliefs do not cause you to harm others unnecessarily, and as long as you or others do not try to force your beliefs on me or anybody else. Whatever floats your boat, as far as I am concerned. Live and let live. Just don't come in here trying to tell the rest of us what we know or don't know as if we are a bunch of brain-dead zombies and expect us to buy into your delusions. And just so there are no misunderstandings, I am not the least bit pissed about anything. I'm actually in a pretty good mood right now, as a matter of fact.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
^^^^this^^^^^

^^^^this^^^^^

Sheldon's picture
100% assurances from someone

100% assurances from someone whose shown naught but dishonest evasion and obfuscation. Not worth much SFT, and you have only yourself to blame. Even if you were telling the truth, the fact you think cherry picking out the bad bits, just shows bias and inconsistency.

Of course I'd rather all theists delusions were peace loving, but they still lend validation that the superstitious texts are genuine divine diktat, and this can only enable the more irascible type of theist who can point out plenty of texts, doctrine and dogma that validate their version. Coupled with the fact you have refused every single time to give candid and forthright answers about such texts and facts. So your assurance is about as much use as £9 pound note.

" let's not really get in to the whole Middle East and it's dimplomacy while I'll be the first to admit it's f'd up let's not pretend like American soldiers really went their to deliver "freedom" or whatever it was masked as."

As opposed to the freedom fighting goals of the Taliban and ISIS you mean? See this is you in a nutshell, you say lets not get in to that then make snide generalisations you imply must go unchallenged because you refuse to be questioned on it. The remark is of course a gross oversimplification, but then that kind of gullible deluded black and white thought process also typifies your posts.

Is it ever moral for a man in his 50's to rape a nine year old child?

Can a horse ever fly?

What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?

Does Islam say women should have the same rights as men?

What does Islam say is the penalty for consenting adults who have sex with members of the same gender?

You can't offer your bland assurances you know best what Islam teaches and that it is peaceful and objectively moral, then denounce every point of view offered on Koranic texts, Whilst refusing steadfastly to tell us what you actually believe. Or answer any questions on texts and behaviours that refute your claim, The people posting here are not nearly as gullible as you and Breezy seem to think, and they won't fall for it.

Talyyn's picture
@Searching for truth

@Searching for truth

"If it concerns you so much stop talking from behind your keyboard, join an army and go kill them. Talk is cheap."

It goes both way, if your faith requires you to kill us (and other pagans), why are you are you talking here, behind a computer screen?

Searching for truth's picture
If you beleive my faith

If you beleive my faith requires me to kill you then, why haven't I killed any non Muslims yet? Why don't Muslims go running around the US killing random people? Surely we must be bad Muslims who aren't practicing it correctly lol.

Talyyn's picture
No, you are good people that

No, you are good people that either don't read the Coran (classical arabic is not spoken or read by a large margin of the 1,2 billions of Muslims, or know what it's written but don't follow.

Shall i begin to quote the Coran, at least a version that we'd both agree is correct?.

Searching for truth's picture
Lol i read the Quran almost

Lol i read the Quran almost daily and took a few years of Arabic (3 to be exact) so I think I'm confident when I say I know and understand what I'm reading. But, thanks for the compliment?

Sheldon's picture
What does the Koran say about

What does the Koran say about having gay sex?

What does it say is the penalty for apostasy, and adultery?

Does the Koran say non-believers can be lied to, and even murdered by Muslims?

If you believe your religion offers objective morality then why did its prophet rape a nine year child? Do you think he was not objectively moral or that a 50+ year old man repeatedly raping a nine year old child is objectively moral? You can't claim objective morality and then hide behind anachronistic context, it's too obvious a contradiction.

Diotrephes's picture
Sheldon,

Sheldon,

The Koran got some of its material from the Jewish Babylonian Talmud. But it is more conservative in some areas, like having sex with kids. The Talmud says that it is OK to have sex with three-year olds. The Koran upped it to nine. In America it was 7.

The real question is why do modern intelligent people still believe in ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales? Even the Bible says that people shouldn't believe in Jewish fairy tales.

Sapporo's picture
Searching for truth: If you

Searching for truth: If you beleive my faith requires me to kill you then, why haven't I killed any non Muslims yet? Why don't Muslims go running around the US killing random people? Surely we must be bad Muslims who aren't practicing it correctly lol.

Religious societies are generally more violent than secular ones. Muslims are also generally over-represented in prison populations in Western societies, but I would be cautious about inferring anything from that - it could be that poverty and poor education are better predictors of criminality than what religion a person has. I suspect the key would be more to do with whether a person is a fundamentalist or not.

But having said that: while it is true that most self-described Muslims are not murderers, it is also true that most criminals are not murderers.

arakish's picture
@ X-Files Man

@ X-Files Man

How did I miss this ignorant statement?

SfT: "If you beleive my faith requires me to kill you then, why haven't I killed any non Muslims yet?"

Because you are an Apostate. You are NOT Muslim. You are just a Religious Absolutist pretending to be a Muslim.

SfT: "Why don't Muslims go running around the US killing random people?"

They already have been several times. Guess you do not keep up with the news...

SfT: "Surely we must be bad Muslims who aren't practicing it correctly lol."

Yep. Apostates is the official term in Islamic beliefs.

X-Files Man, quit being such an ass.

rmfr

Sheldon's picture
"SfT: "Why don't Muslims go

"SfT: "Why don't Muslims go running around the US killing random people?""

You have to laugh at that one mind. I think I know the answer, is it because they use planes? It would have been more impressive if they flying horses, that would have given me pause.

Sheldon's picture
"An atheist trying to argue

"An atheist trying to argue morality when he/she believes morality is subjective"

Is it ever moral to kill non Muslims?

Is it ever moral for a man in his 50 to rape a nine year old child?

What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?

At least have the courage to match ours, and tell us what your morals say about the above. Sneering contempt and rank cowardice don't suggest any kind of morality to me, "lion".

Cognostic's picture
SHELDON: I like these

SHELDON: I like these questions.

1. Is it ever moral to kill non Muslims?
Not as long as you eat what you kill. Hunting for trophies is amoral.

2. Is it ever moral for a man in his 50 to rape a nine year old child?
Only when he has thighed here for 3 years fists and his name is Muhammad.

3. What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
It really doesn't matter. If you are found to be an apostate you are not going to remember.

But Sheldon; cowardice is a way of life for any Muslim ashamed of his or her own religious views.

David Killens's picture
@Searching for truth

@Searching for truth

"I am saying it’s hypocritical and ironic that someone that does not believe in objective morality is trying to take a stance on something they believe is subjective."

Is it ever moral for a 50 year old man to rape a nine year old child?

What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam.

Is it ever moral for a muslim to kill a non muslim "wherever they find them"?

Can a horse EVER fly?

Do you believe you will get 72 female virgins replenished daily when you die?

Rohan M.'s picture
Alright, allow me to refute

Alright, allow me to refute this old argument for the zillionth time:

You’re the one who’s making the positive claim, so you’re the one who has the burden of proof. Saying that we need to prove that your Allah is not real is like expecting someone to prove that my invisible, unfeelable, unsmellable, and unhearable pet unicorn doesn’t exist.

And also, what proof do YOU have that Santa Claus doesn’t exist? The Easterbunny? The Tooth Fairy? The Christian God? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? If you can’t prove that any of them don’t exist, then going by your logic, WE MUST BELIEVE THAT THEY’RE ALL REAL!

Lol... you theists do this all the time... I have even seen Christians making the same argument but for their God.

Sapporo's picture
Searching for truth: It's

Searching for truth: It's amazing seeing all you "scholars" here yet, everyone is waiting for me to answer. Ironic.

It's not ironic.

It is the result of the answers to the questions being matters of sectarian interpretation and morality, as well as your own personal opinion (the questions are directed at you).

Those who observe nature publish their results when they find new evidence as well as when they find a lack of evidence for a theory. In your case however, you are intent to remain silent.

David Killens's picture
Not at all, I have made $15

Not at all, I have made $15.00 off you so far. I bet a friend that you would not answer the OP.

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