Swinging from one tree of life to another!

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Valiya's picture
HI Greensnake

HI Greensnake

YOU SAID: “Sorry, valiya, can't help you here. Perhaps you can talk to a university professor, search the internet (gene duplication mechanisms), or even write the authors of your source.”

I am quite baffled by this reply. So you have no interpretation to offer, but you were so quick to dismiss mine! How can you take a position on my interpretation when you have none of your own?

YOU SAID: “Having not read the complete paper, I'm not sure that they even discuss the matter.”

So you don’t know what you own papers are saying either. Great way to come into a discussion, that too with your level of confidence.

You SAID: “Suppose that a gardener wrote up his report for the day, stating among other things that he cut the lawn. Is there any particular reason why he should go into the mechanism by which this job was done? His boss will see that the lawn is cut, and that is enough.”

Let me just extend your imagination. Let’s say the boss comes over and says that he will not pay the gardener because to him it seems like some wind had blown through the garden and mowed the lawn. Now, the gardener better explain in his report how exactly he had cut the lawn and what tools and mechanisms were at play.

YOU SAID: “Once we have the duplicated genes, it doesn't really matter (at least for our discussion) what the mechanisms might have been. The car has arrived at its destination and the route taken might be a mystery to us, but the car has now arrived and we can make use of it”

Not so easy. If the mechanism is not understood then there is the possibility that new genes arise as a result of some pre-existing coding in the genes. In that case, gene duplication would no longer be a viable example for evolution.

Dave Matson's picture
Hi valiya,

Hi valiya,

"So you don’t know what you own papers are saying either. Great way to come into a discussion, that too with your level of confidence." --valiya

Thus is my helpfulness repaid! I read the abstract which clearly spelled out the point I was interested in. Why the dishonest spin?

"Not so easy. If the mechanism {for getting new genes from duplicated genes} is not understood then there is the possibility that new genes arise as a result of some pre-existing coding in the genes. In that case, gene duplication would no longer be a viable example for evolution." --valiya

I suppose that the random effects of mutations on newly duplicated genes are also part of your "pre-existing coding" in the genes!! Gene duplication is just the first step, which is followed by mutations.

..................................................................

I've quoted two university-level textbooks, an up-to-date scientific paper with a clear, readable abstract, Wikipedia, a chapter in a 1000 page anthology on evolution (that chapter by two professors, one having written over 200 scientific papers), and pointed out two helpful university websites. I've shown beyond any reasonable doubt that mainstream science has no problem whatsoever with new genetic information arising. Not only do we have the major source of new genes via duplicated genes, but we also see new information arising from point mutations in existing genes and even in the fusion of genes! Finally, for good measure, I pointed out that each new species is proof of new, genetic information. Moreover, I pointed you to websites that identified many new species that have actually been observed to arise in our time. Viola! New genetic information.

So, I will stand by my last couple of major posts which demonstrate that the scientific community plainly accepts the evolution of new genetic information! There is no need for me to say any more unless you take it upon yourself to demonstrate that such sources do not represent the scientific community. The ball, then, is in your court valiya, and there is nothing more for me to say should you fail to address the above task.

Lucifer's Duck's picture
Snake/valiya.

Snake/valiya.

TL;DR But I'm guessing you are both correct!

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