What are your problems with Christianity

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UnKnown's picture
What are your problems with Christianity

What are some your biggest reasons why you think Christianity is wrong. I myself am a Christian and would like to know reasons of disbelief. And it would be a blessing if you left some biblical quotes as well. :)

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Greensnake's picture
It depends on whether you are

It depends on whether you are a liberal Christian or a Fundamentalist/Evangelical. If the latter, then a major objection would be the bizarre belief that the Bible is perfect. In fact, it contains moral errors, historical errors, scientific errors, general absurdities, failed prophecies, and an ocean of contradictions that even reach the book level.

Another objection is that the "God hypothesis" contradicts good reasoning. See my thread "Science Gives God The Bump!" 08/07/2016 18:47.

There are a whole slew of reasons for rejecting Christianity (and supernatural religion in general), but the above should suffice.

Algebe's picture
Kurt Vonnegut identified a

Kurt Vonnegut identified a fundamental problem in one of his books ("Sirens of Titan I think). The Jews persuaded the Romans to lynch an irritating man who looked like a nobody but was actually the son of the supreme ruler of the universe. So the Jews lost their homeland and became a despised diaspora, frequently suffering persecution and massacres, for the next two millennia. They should have lynched Barabas instead. he was a nobody.

Vonnegut suggests that a better basis for a religion would have been a story in which a complete nobody is grabbed by the mob, but just as they're about to nail him up, the heavens open and god's voice is heard promoting the nobody to the status of son of god and commanding the mob to release and honor him.

What Christianity tells us, and what Christians have done throughout history, is to make sure that you persecute the right people. Jews are fair game, as are Christians of other sects. Muslims, Incas, Aztecs, Sioux....kill as many as you can. God will be on your side. How many armies have gone to war with crosses on their banners and shields?

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/564843-the-visitor-from-outer-space-made...

UnKnown's picture
So the problem you are

So the problem you are suggesting is that Christianity is false because of the crappy basis of it?

Algebe's picture
@Unknown”

@Unknown”
Christianity is false because of the crappy basis of it?

I'm suggesting that it's rotten to the core and shaky down to its foundations, and that the history of the past two millenia demonstrates the toxicity and danger of the entire Christian myth. Christianity is supposed to give us a pattern for living based on loving our neighbors and turning the other cheek. Christianity's influence on history has been the exact opposite of these ideals. Christianity started out as a cult of the poor and downtrodden persecuted by the Roman Empire, but then it became the Roman Empire and persecuted other poor and downtrodden on a scale that would have astonished Nero. Today Christians continue to judge others, especially gays, in the name of a man who said "Judge not lest ye be judged."

Is that what Jesus set out to achieve? If not, Christianity is false,

UnKnown's picture
So you base a religion on its

So you base a religion on its followers, but not the religion/text itself?

Algebe's picture
@Unknown:

@Unknown:
"So you base a religion on its followers, but not the religion/text itself?"

Can you separate them? The texts mean nothing until someone acts on them. A religion without followers is nothing.

UnKnown's picture
I believe all people have

I believe all people have dark, horrible things inside them (i.e hatred towards other people), but they don't act on them unless they believe it to be worth it (either a chance of success (bank robbery) or eternal pleasure(Heaven)). Some people read a section of the religious texts out of context, in whatever matter suits them, and can sometimes bring people to act on it, despite not even reading more than a passage or section. You can separate a religion and its followers by whether the followers are following all the text, not one or three sections out of context to bring about their hatred because they think this is what is needed from them.

Algebe's picture
@Unknown

@Unknown
"religious texts out of context"

That's the universal escape clause isn't it. When Christians and Muslims, etc., commit atrocities, their fellow travellers absolve themselves by claiming that the perpetrators hadn't understood the text properly.

UnKnown's picture
What if those "out of context

What if those "out of context" claim are correct though? I'm not an expert in Islam, but all atrocities after the New Testament are out off context. E.g. Hatred of gay (the killing and abusing of gay people) is wrong because the only discriminating that God tells us to do to active homosexuals is to not allow them in church. Westboro claim they are doing God's work when hurting gay people, when the bible tells us to do nothing of the sort. They say that being homosexual is wrong. No. The bible only talks against those who practice it (Romans 1:27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9b). All I'm saying is, when "fellow travelers" use the "universal escape clause" as you put it, they might be wrong, and they might be right. I came to love this site due to it's ability encourage self-thinking. So think for yourself and look at what the claimers are saying about the out-of-context quoting and usage. When atrocities are made, take 10 minutes to check whether what they did was correct. (Sorry if this is too long or too harsh).

chimp3's picture
There is nothing wrong with

There is nothing wrong with homosexual acts between consenting adults.

Nyarlathotep's picture
UnKnown - Westboro claim they

UnKnown - Westboro claim they are doing God's work when hurting gay people, when the bible tells us to do nothing of the sort.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

UnKnown's picture
This section of rules in

This section of rules in Leviticus are towards the Jews, not the whole population of Earth. If you decided to follow Yahweh, you had to agree to a certain terms and conditions. This is part of it. When decided to become a Jew, you agreed that if you had homosexual relations, you would be put to death. If you were not part of the Jewish religion/community, then have homosexual relations. My point is that, the law stated in the Old Testament was for the Jews to punished the Jews whom did wrong, not for the Jews to punish or inflict on the rest of the world. This is because they are consenting adults who agreed to the terms and conditions of Leviticus (and others). All these rules were used to exclude those from the religion. Now we all we do is exclude them from the Church. The reason for the change is as follows: The Old Testament Law can be put into three groups, Civil (Property rights, retain just scales in commerce and justice practices), Ceremonial (Priest stuff and sacrifice requirements) and Moral (Don't steal, murder etc). We don't follow civil law because that was set for God's morals to be enforced by government of his people. Now his people are united by faith, not by location. This is also the same with ceremonial, as Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. Homosexual acts are still a sin, according to the bible, but the punishment for them is gone as the New Covenant came.

Nyarlathotep's picture
UnKnown - This section of

UnKnown - This section of rules in Leviticus are towards the Jews, not the whole population of Earth.

Oh yes; the Pick-a-Part™ religion. Pick the parts you want to follow and say those are commandments to everyone; and the stuff you don't like as commandments to other people. Say goodbye to any hope of an objective morality!

I recommend investing in the Velcro Bible. Yeah each part is velcro'ed into the spine; so you can remove the parts you don't want, then quickly put them back when you need them.

UnKnown's picture
Read Hebrews 8. "By calling

Read Hebrews 8. "By calling this covenant 'new', he has made the old one obsolete" V8a. The old covenant has been made obsolete. The old covenant included the Leviticus laws. A covenant is an agreement. This agreement changed when Jesus fulfilled them (Matthew 5:17). The next verse implies that the law will disappear when "everything is accomplished" meaning his death and resurrection (John 19:30 "It is finished"). So the fulfillment of the law is his resurrection, in which the old covenant disappears with a new one to replace it. https://www.gci.org/law/oldandnew I think this should help. So we follow what is said in the New Testament, not the Old, but we don't ignore the old as Christ came to fulfill it.

MCD's picture
Yes. Shit like this in one

Yes. Shit like this in one or more old books that becomes the basis for religious dogma is dangerous and silly... as are the people who take stupid comments like this seriously

Sam's picture
"Some people read a section

"Some people read a section of the religious texts out of context, in whatever matter suits them," If said religious text is supposedly based on some divine revelation, it would seem to me that it would be more clear about it's meaning. The very fact that there is any confusion about what a particular passage or indeed, the entire book means to say is evidence of it's human construct and thus questionable moral value.

UnKnown's picture
Why would the bible being

Why would the bible being divine make it easier to understand it's meaning.

Algebe's picture
@Unknown

@Unknown
"Why would the bible being divine make it easier to understand it's meaning."

I would expect a god to have superior communication skills. A god should be able to produce a bible that is absolutely clear with zero room for misinterpretation. Instead we have nearly 800,000 words of gibberish that makes less sense than the instructions in Chinese flatpack furniture kits. Even the Ten Commandments are confusing. For example, what does "Thou shalt not kill" mean exactly? Is it ok to kill Romans or Philistines? Is it ok to kill if I'm just obeying orders? Is there a sub-clause depriving gays, adulterous women and idolaters from protection under that law?

UnKnown's picture
1. 800 000 words of gibberish

1. 800 000 words of gibberish surely is an over statement, we're given a lot of context because of these words. This is the resource we need to interpretation. Jesus said he came to fulfill the Old Testament (Luke 24). Because of this we are given a lot of context to understand the meaning of what Jesus said and did.
2. Having one divine author for all the books of the bible provides coherence for all the books of the bible. The one main message of the bible is identified by the gospel of Jesus' lordship. This coherence helps with interpretation. We can interpret the things we find hard to understand with reference to things we find easy to understand.
3. The fact that God can communicate doesn't mean misinterpretation is impossible. We are mortal sinful people who interpret messages our own way. People have the desire, which are expressed in their action, then find (seemingly) justification within the Bible. They bend the bible to their desires, when they should bend their desires to the bible. His words are clear, but, no matter how clear the words are, people are blinded by their desires.

Algebe's picture
"Having one divine author for

"Having one divine author for all the books of the bible provides coherence for all the books of the bible."

Having one divine author for all the books of the bible SHOULD provide coherence for all the books of the bible. The reality is different.

"The fact that God can communicate doesn't mean misinterpretation is impossible."
The fact that misinterpretation is possible means that god can't communicate, specifically because god doesn't exist. The bible is a work of fiction by some of the nastiest, craziest people in the history of writing.

UnKnown's picture
Our sinfulness is not

Our sinfulness is not insuperable, God can overcome, and that is why we are able to come to a knowledge to the truth of God. Judas behavior didn't mean Jesus couldn't communicate, but our sinfulness does account for misinterpreting. Misinterpreting isn't the fault of God, it is the fault of our sin. If Tom says something to Dick, and Dick only listens to part of the message, even though it may be one sentence in a million that it linked to sentences before and after, is it Tom's fault or Dicks. There is a difference between communicating something, and listening to something.

Algebe's picture
@Unknown:

@Unknown:
"If Tom says something to Dick, and Dick only listens to part of the message, even though it may be one sentence in a million that it linked to sentences before and after, is it Tom's fault or Dicks."

What if Tom's message is so vague and garbled that Dick can't understand it, and when Dick gets the message wrong, Tom drops Dick into a deep hole and sets fire to him forever? Whose fault is that?

UnKnown's picture
That fault would be with Tom.

That fault would be with Tom. But that is not what happens. The analogy that I gave is what happens. God gives us message, I'll admit it's a bloody long message, and we only listen to part of it, the fault is with us. There are parables which aren't designed to be understood completely easily, but they have nothing to do with morals or actions against others.

MCD's picture
If you define the word

If you define the word "sinfulness" as refusing to obey the 600+ commandments in the holy babble, then I certainly would consider myself a sinner... and one in very good company.

As a christian, what do you suppose god or gods have against clams and oysters. Leviticus 11: 9-12

Keight's picture
Gods God. Not confined to

Gods God. Not confined to words, communicating via 'spoken words'. Being divine means you can use actions, words, situations and events to communicate. Personally think we are very deaf and narrow minded on this topic.

Zero room for interpretation does not represent a relationship where someone gets to know someone. That's only computer code.

Here's a fun fact that I bet you can't google...

The 5 horizontal commands (man to man) add up to 40. (6-10) 40 is always symbolic of trials/temptations/struggles. The 5 vertical commands add up to 15 (1-5)- this is always symbolic of Gods rest. What's the point? He communicating that like a kids matching sheet the solution for a 'horizontal command' is (basically, don't he all formulaic now) the corresponding erotically command... i.e.- got a struggle, find rest in Me...

FYI the 6th command is to not murder (as opposed to kill) though the corresponding command to that is the 5th which talks about honor and respect, which, not coincidentally is the only command with a promise- long life.

I think He's quite chatty actually...

Keight's picture
Geez I really need to proof

Geez I really need to proof check my comments. Ha!

Algebe's picture
Isn't "Honor they father and

Isn't "Honor they father and thy mother" a man-to-man commandment? That gives you 45 horizontal (6 through10) and 10 vertical (1 through 4). What's special about these numbers, anyway? The real key to life, the universe and everything is 42.

Keight's picture
Good question, I asked the

Good question, I asked the exact same one but no. This is exactly why this is a relationship (between us and God) Do a google search and most people believe that it's 1-4 and 5-10. The fifth command is to honor your father, Father. It's a transition. No honor/respect leads to a pretty short 'life' not just implying here. This is just vapor- no, he's also implying forever.

Does it mean father on earth too? Sure, I'd even go as far as to say it means forefathers and elders and respecting people in authority. Point is clear those 5 vertical commands are meant to help us rest in Him when we finally give up on 'law' and its tests and trials. Trying to follow the law (and adding and adding ridiculous laws on top of ridiculous laws) simply proves what a 'works' mindset gives you. That's the whole point of Levitical law- to prove how impossible it is to be 'perfect' and to recognize a need for a savior who is.

God gave us the OT first because he knew that's our biggest hangup, funny thing is- it still is!

Law shows you ONLY what not to do (just like rules of a game) Jesus in the NT was the flip side- what to 'be' and therefore he was able to 'do' amazing things.

One is works, the other relationship. God always wanted a relationship but until imperfection stares you in the face why listen to God?

No religion or non-religion apart from Jesus offers a grace by faith/non-works oriented solution.

None.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Invent a fictional problem:
  1. Invent a fictional problem: the idea that people are born with sin, and will go to hell.
  2. Invent a fictional solution: grace through Jesus
  3. Claim your religion is the only one that deals with its fictional problem: "No religion or non-religion apart from Jesus offers a grace by faith ... solution. "
Keight's picture
42- funny, 6 and 7 don't get

42- funny, 6 and 7 don't get along that well (imperfect with perfect) but apparently they can still multiply.

Someone else was pointing out I must be fixated on numerology so this ain't helping but I swear I'm not...

oh brother.

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