@ DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense

Now I am going to prove your point about how I respect those who make an OP as disrespectful as yours.

I am neither a leftist, nor a rightist. I am a "fuck you up the middlest."

rmfr

DoesAtheismEven, I take exception to your putting all folks who are identified as atheist is one big behavioral group. I don’t do that with theists because I am able to discern that each is an individual and I typically address each in that way. Perhaps you could have a productive conversation if you avoided that sort of clustering. Of course, that’s IF you actually want a productive conversation.

@DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense offers no evidence, only opinion, and resorts to the behavior that he criticizes in others.

He follows a religion that promotes eternal torture of those who do not follow it, and somehow thinks atheists are aggressive by comparison.

@ DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense (DAEMS)

DAEMS: “It may be true that you have read about the Bible from a variety of sources. It may be true you have read the Bible front to cover 100 times over. Lots of secular scholars have done so, and still can't find anything reasonable in it. But the same is true for other's, who come to the opposite conclusion.”

And what did Voltaire say once? Paraphrased: “Those who would believe in any absurdity will also commit the greatest atrocities.”

Boy does that sum up Christianity in true truth. Christianity, all by its lonesome, is responsible for more… well, let's take a look, shall we?

• Murders – Billions in the last 3 to 4 millenia.
• Rapes – Millions, but may number billions, in the last 3 to 4 millenia.
• Tortures – Millions, but may number billions, in the last 3 to 4 millenia.
• Lies – Probably trillions, if not quadrillions, in the last 3 to 4 millenia.
• Extortions – This is the whole idea behind Christianity and Islam. Pervert, demoralize, subvert, and bribe all persons with the belief that it possesses the one and only truth, “You are condemned to Hell to burn forever unless you believe and do as WE say.”.
• Sacrifices – At least millions in the last 3 to 4 millenia.
• Ravaging – Well, you have certainly spread your beliefs like locusts…
• Swindles – Another thing Christianity is especially good at. Give us all your money so we can live in extravegance while you struggle like a bunch of peasants.
• Exploitations – Another thing Christianity and Islam are specifically trained to do to people.
• Plundering – Go look at the treasure vaults of the Vatican. They have raped more treasures from aound the world than any other entity.
• Abuse – Although us Atheist rose up against you assholes and passed laws prohibiting this, I know for a fact from hearing from many preachers and Pastors that you evil, wicked, mean, and nasty shitheads definitely want to continue doing,
  • be burning us at the stack,
  • piling stones on our chest until the rib–cage collapsed,
  • tying boulders to our ankles and throwing the boulder into a deep lake,
  • making us into basketball centers on the rack,
  • flailing us with cat-of-nine-tails until we bleed to death,
  • dunking us into a deep pool of water at the end of a see-saw,
  • dragging us behind a pack animal until dead,
  • tarring and feathering us,
  • crucifying us,
  • hanging us by neck until dead,
  • amongst many, many other forms of torture,
  • yet you have the gall to say we are the immoral ones for not believing in your immoral bullshit?
• Coercion – Same as Extortion.
• Pillaging – Same as Plundering.
• Torment – Well, just by speaking, you Religious Absolutist Trolls torment…
• Harassment – How often do the churches send people out to ring our doorbells and harass us?
• Rampage – Same as Ravaging.
• Insults – This is all you Religious Absolutists ever do. Then you have the gall to ask why insult you back?
• Endangerment – Have you truly read that obsolete, irrelevant, barbaric, savage, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age religious text utilizing critical thinking, logical and deductive reasoning, and rational and analytical thought?
• Threats – Every word of your obsolete, irrelevant, barbaric, savage, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age religious text is a threat to the human species.
• Oppression – Ultimately, if you were to truly read your obsolete, irrelevant, barbaric, savage, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age religious text, you would see that it is nothing more than a tool for oppression. “Religion is not merely a tool to oppress the masses, it is a self perpetuating scam that leads the masses to oppress themselves.” — Micheal Sherlock.
• Persecution – Us Atheists have suffered more persecution due to you evil, wicked, mean, and nasty assholes than the vice versa. See my short essay below.
• Genocidal Ethnic Cleansing – The whole book of Joshua. And there are many others…
• Terrorism – “You are condemned to Hell to burn forever unless you believe and do as WE say.” And also to teach children they are born evil/sinful due to an evil and sinful act… Too many other forms of psychological terrorism you assholes employ.
• Mutilation of Genitalia – Do a google… And what is this desire of your fucking deity wanting his breakfast of foreskins? Kind of proves your asshole deity is homosexual.
• Enslavement – Now days, this is done mentally. And just as abhorrent as the days of yore.
• Molestation and Rape of Children – Pretty sure you know about this one. What the fuck is wrong with you Christians and this fascination with molesting, raping, and abusing children? WTFGDH?!
• Corruption – George CArlin: “In the Bullshit Department a businessman can’t hold a candle to a clergyman. Because I got to tell you the truth folks. I got to tell you the truth when it comes to bullshit. Big-time major-league bullshit. You have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims. Religion. No contest. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever till the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money. He always needs money. He’s all-powerful all-perfect all-knowing and all-wise but somehow just can’t handle money. Religion takes in billions of dollars. They pay no taxes and they always need a little more. Now you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!”

And you supposedly peaceful and loving (BULLSHIT!) Christians have been doing the above list (which is NOT completely exhaustive!)in the name of God for millenia around the world to spread such a theological message. But I am the one going to Hell for not believing in this nonsense?

And here are some other interesting facts. Do you even realize whom the leaders of the Christian churches go after? And they are specifically trained to go after these people. According to the last survey I saw (will have to go find it) more than 80% of all Christians only have a high school diploma or, never completed high school. Of all atheists surveyed, more than 80% have at least two Baccalaureats or higher degrees. Hmm...

Seems to show that the higher the education, the less belief there is in any religion. Why? Because once you are in college, especially for physical science degree, it will force you to learn how to utilize critical thinking, logical and deductive reasoning, and rational and analytical thought. Something no religion teaches except for those who wish to learn how to be a church leader and fleece the sheeple. Why don't you go and study more science and see if you can believe the bullshit evil lies of religion?

======================================================================

Religious Persecution

What is the first thing you think of about “religious persecution?” Is it someone who persecutes you for the religion you believe in? Or, is it the more accurate definition of persecution of unbelievers for not believing in and worshipping your God? Think Critically about this. Religious Persecution is actually the persecution of unbelievers by Religious Absolutists and Apologists. You are religiously persecuting those atheists for not having a religion. Why? Do you realize this is also in DIRECT VIOLATION of the First Admendment? I could even sue every last religious organization in the United States of America for violating my First Admendment right to have whatsoever religious beliefs I wish to have, even if is no belief. However no court would ever hear such a case due to not wanting to look anti-Christian.

I received a story in my email from the Atheist Republic. The paragraph below is an excerpt from that email.

“In 2012, Greek citizen and scientist Phillipos Loizos created a Facebook page mocking Elder Paisios, the late Greek Orthodox monk seen by many as a prophet. On the Facebook page, he referred to the monk as Pastistios, giving a nod to Pastafarianism. He also replaced his face with an image of pastitsio, a Greek beef dish. For this, Loizos was arrested for blasphemy. He was later found guilty of insulting religion and sentenced to ten months in prison.”

When I saw this paragraph, it reminded me of my wife’s parents who had immigrated to America. The reason why they fled Greece and came to America? Religious persecution. Her parents were persecuted by the Greek Orthodox Church because they were atheists. And you Religious Absolutists have the balls to say we atheists are the ones persecuting you. All you theists do is persecute us since you are still the ones in power. You are the ones who persecute because you cannot answer our questions. You persecute us because you find that us atheists live lives that are more moral than any of you theists. All us atheist have been doing, as AC Grayling once said (paraphrased), “is presenting you with some arguments and some challenging questions, and all you thiest can do is complain like a bunch of childish, spoiled brats.”

Well, I hate to break it to you, eventually you are going to be the ones in the minority as you keep chasing persons away with your lies and faerie tales. Persons are becoming more educated. With the advent of the WWW, they can look into the claims you theists make. They can find that your claims are nothing more than fabricated apologetic lies.

Us atheists are persecuted here in the United States. Here are a few facts for your entertainment.

• There are seven states that have state constitutional laws that actually “prohibit” an atheist from holding any public or government office. North Carolina is one.
• There is one state that actually has laws that “prohibits” any atheist from being a witness to any crime in a court of law. North Carolina.
• Atheism is the only philosophy where it is actually encouraged for people to discriminate against.
• A University of British Columbia study conducted in the United States found that believers distrusted atheists as much they did rapists. The study also showed that atheists had lower employment prospects. Yet you theists are guilty of more rapes than all atheists combined.
• Another study (different conductors who have been discriminated against with threat of violence, thus the anonymity) found “that most Americans still feel it is acceptable to discriminate against atheists in ways considered beyond the pale for other groups.”
• 44% of Americans state that they would not marry an atheist. (Boy, I am glad my wife and I found each other.)
• About 68% of Americans associate atheism with immorality, including criminal behavior (also see section “Some Research Into the Good of Religion”), extreme materialism, communism, and elitism.
• Prominent atheists and atheist groups have said that discrimination against atheists is illustrated by a statement reportedly made by Bush Senior during a public press conference just after announcing his candidacy for the presidency in 1987. When asked by journalist Robert Sherman about the equal citizenship and patriotism of American atheists, Sherman reported that Bush Senior answered, “No, I don’t know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.”

And some from around the rest of the world…

• 13 Muslim countries officially punish atheism, or apostasy, by death, while “the overwhelming majority” of the 192 United Nation member countries “at best discriminate against citizens who have no belief in a god (especially in the US) and at worst can jail them for offenses dubbed blasphemy.”
• Atheism is prohibited in Saudi Arabia (an ally of the US) and can come with a death penalty, if one is charged as an atheist.
• In March 2014, the Saudi interior ministry issued a royal decree branding all atheists as terrorists, which defines terrorism as “calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based.”
• In 2012, Indonesian atheist Alexander Aan was beaten by a mob, lost his job as a civil servant and was sentenced to two and a half years in jail for expressing his views online.
• In the Russian city of Stavropol, Viktor Krasnov, a 38-year-old man, faces trial, charged with publicly insulting Orthodox Church believers by supporting atheism in social media.
• A court in Saudi Arabia sentenced a 28-year-old man to 10 years in prison, 2,000 lashes, and a $5,330 fine for posting tweets favoring atheism.
• In Bangladesh, machete-wielding attackers in February 2015 killed Avijit Roy, a Bangladeshi-American secular blogger, during his visit to Dhaka.

You get the idea. You Religious Absolutists are so persecuted in America that the government allows you to keep hundreds of billions of dollars in offerings tax-free. Damn, I wish my ass was persecuted like that.

Contrary to their claims, Christians still do not face ANY persecution in America. They are confusing a war on religion (and that is a term of the Religious Absolutists, not atheists) with not having the right to get everything they want. Christians enjoy all the rights they have always had under the First Amendment. All they are losing is the privilege of forcing their beliefs on unbelievers without protest.

Atheist: Wonders why you are not an atheist and jokes about it.
Christian: Condemns you to eternal damnation in Hell for not believing in God.

Which is more damaging?

1. Religion which teaches us we are broken, wicked, flawed, sinful, wretched, foolish, weak, and worth nothing without believing in faerie tales.
2. Science which teaches us we are capable of anything, full of wonder, intelligent, great learners, and have a potential for greatness.

And you Religious Absolutists have it all wrong. It is us Atheists that are suffering Religious Persecution. It is the religious that are persecuting us. We have never persecuted you. All we have ever done is offer some very good questions and thought provoking ideas for which, if there were no laws against such, you would still burn us at the stake for even thinking of asking those questions.

Thus, as the title of this wild tangent says, you are the ones performing Religious Persecution. And if you Religious Absolutists try to reverse this by saying you are suffering Atheistic Persecution, then you are truly the deluded dumb asses I claim you to be. We Atheists are NOT persecuting you. We are simply arguing against your preposterous, absurd, outrageous, presupposed assumptions, and deplorable claims of a supernatural super-being who has ultimate knowledge, ultimate power, and ultimate goodness (NOT!). Our questions and arguments are not the discrimination and persecution we still suffer at your whims.

======================================================================

Some Research Into The GOOD Of Religion

Author’s Note: Since I do not have access to coloring text on this site, I am using emphasis and bold for the distinctions below.

“Current research evidence does not support the common view that religiosity is positively correlated with good morality,” said Sam Harris.

In fact, I used QGIS software, and the TIGER data from the Census Bureau and crime data files from the FBI to see how correct his statement is. It took me several months, but my research has shown that the more religious a population, the higher the crime rates, specifically violent crime. While the same research shows that the more educated (thus less religious) a population, the lower the crime rates. If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

Here are some research numbers (although listed below as green and red, I have to use bold and emphasis):

• Bold = Highly educated; persons with at least a Master’s degree or higher, or multiple (2+) Baccalaureate or higher degrees.
• Emphsis = Highly religious; persons with low education (no high school diploma), Associate’s degree or lower, or no degrees.

This is only in the United States, perhaps the most religious nation on Earth (excepting some Muslim nations).

• Of the 25 states with the lowest rates of crime, 5 are red, 20 are green (a 1:4 ratio).
• Of the 25 states with the highest rates of crime, 19 are red, 6 are green (a 3:1 ratio).
• Of the 25 most dangerous cities, 22 are red, 3 are green (a 7:1 ratio).
• Of the 20 most safest cities, only 2 are red, 18 are green (a 1:9 ratio).
• Of the 19 states with the highest rates of burglary, 16 are red, 3 are green (a 5:1 ratio).
• Of the 22 states with the highest rates of theft, 18 are red, 4 are green (a 4:1 ratio).
• Of the 22 states with the highest rates of murder, 19 are red, 3 are green (a 6:1 ratio).

Notes on how I chose these listings. With the cities/states I chose enough from the list to get at least “3” of whichever color. The only exceptions are the 20 most safest cities due to the fact that to get a third “red” city, I would have had to take the top 38 most safest cities making it 3 are red, 35 are green giving a ratio of 1:12. I figured a 1:9 ratio was bad enough. And to really add insult to injury, to get the fourth “red” safest city, it would been 52 cities making it 4 are red, 48 are green, still a 1:12 ratio. And you call us atheists dangerous and immoral, and to be trusted less than rapists and murderers? What was it Jar Jar Binks said? “How wuude!”

And to add more insult to injury, the first red “most safest” city does not appear until number 16. And to pour salt in the wound, in the “most dangerous” cities, the three green ones are numbers 19, 22, and 25. So much for atheism being so dangerous.

On the highest theft, I could have stopped at 21 cities making 18 are red, 3 are green. Since adding the 22nd city would lower the ratio (from 6:1 to 4:1) I decided to be a nice guy and cut you Religious Absolutists some slack. I also made it match the number of highest murder states.

I made the choices above just so I would not have to listen to your whiney-ass pleas about being a vindictive atheist. See, us atheists are actually good people.

Reiteration: If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

More shocking numbers on the goodness of religion (researched as an afterthought):

• 93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian (a 13:1 ratio).
• 84% of all inmates identify themselves as religious believers (a 5:1 ratio).
• 0.02% of inmates identify themselves as Atheist, meaning only 1 in 5000 are Atheist.

If Atheists are so damned immoral… why does the prison population not reflect this? And look again at the first one. This definitely warrants: “God Damn, what the fuck is wrong with you Christians?”

I mean, “93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian?” What the Hell kind of Fucked Up crap is that?! And since, when?, the mid-80s, this has really come back to bite you Christians in the ass.

DAEMS: “If a religious absolutist is cherry picking verses to prove the existence of God, then he/she does not have a full understanding of the text or the religion. This is exactly my point, It is not valid for either "side" to do this. In order to understand the religion, you have to understand the bible IN CONTEXT front to cover, understand the historical context of the time, understand the life of Christ who claimed to be the Savior, and understand the 2000 years of history since He walked the earth (btw, it is not much disputed that Jesus DID walk the earth at that time, the only thing in question is whether He performed miracles. There is even evidence of this, but too difficult to objectively know for sure.)”

Trust me. I understand the bullshit lies with the Bible and the Qu’ran. Much better than your closed mind does.

DAEMS: “Generalizing about a group of people is not helpful to constructive dialogue. Just as I have seen atheists don't like being generalized due to the large range of beliefs/nonbeliefs that exist within that "label", the same goes for religious peoples. Yes, there are thousands of Christians groups that would hold this attitude, no different than the attitude of atheists looking down on religious people. But in order for us to continue, please remove me from the generalization. I DO NOT BELIEVE I AM HOLIER THAN THOU. I respect you, and admire you. I just want to a provide perspective, one that 30+ years traveling all over the Levant and beyond could not provide you with.”

And you have yet to prove it. See the section about Religious Persecution above.

DAEMS: “So if I'm intellectually honest…”

And from what I have read, thank you. As David Killens said earlier, we can learn from each other. Keep up the good work.

DAEMS: “I have stated it cannot be done by offering a single line of the Bible out of context, in the same way that quoting Old Testament lines should not be used as a defense against it. I am, through many long posts and replies, trying to convey our overall belief.”

Even if we were to take the entire Bible as the “context”, the Bible is nothing more than a “claim.” It is not “evidence,” regardless of anyone's beliefs.

And just in case this comes up with you, I am very much like Christopher Hitchens. I do not give a damn if anything I say may offend anyone. If you find my arguments offensive, then the problem is not me. The problem lies with you.

Arakish: “Only YOU have the power to give a word, phrase, sentence the power to offend YOU!”

And to truly nail my points home…

Arakish: “Not only am I an Atheist. I am also an Anti-Theist. And an Anti-Religionist. I am a Soul Haunter. I publicly argue passionately against any religion. I publicly question any religion. I publicly laugh at any religion. I publicly shame any religion. I publicly resist any religion. I publicly defile any religion. Why? Because in my true and wholly honest opinion, the human species would have been much better off had there NEVER been ANY religion, for, ultimately, Religion is Humankind's worst enemy.”

rmfr

DoesAtheismEven... - ...the atheist has to first agree that the premise of "God exists" is true, since this is what the theist is basing their arguments on.

Yes, that is very useful for analyzing the validity of a formal proof; do you have one to offer?