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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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"FormerAtheist
This may be true in some situations but not in this one. When two parties have competing views about a particular event then burden of proof would be equal"
>>Fine, I'm God, and I created everything . Now let's see you prove I'm not.
You're claim is preposterous...as is mine. So no, conflicting opinions don't carry an equal burden of proof.
However let's assume they did.
I can point out facts like the material universe exists, humans create fictional deities, no one has ever demonstrate objective evidence for a deity or anything supernatural.
All you've offered is a denial of scientific facts, and pointed out you don't know how the universe or life came to exist, so you're going to assume it was your version of your deity. A common logical fallacy called an appeal to ignorance. Look it up if you don't believe me, while you're at it look up irrational.
You can demonstrate nothing...
@Dejess
You assume that existence is not eternal. You don't even have any evidence.
Okay, dear atheists, I will help you by bringing to you the article of your master, one Bertrand Russell, on "Is There a God."
"Is There a God?" commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
[
malformed xss link removed by Azrad, use a flat link next time]Read that and cull out the argument against God by your master Bertrand Russell, the failed mathematician, failed philosopher, and who then switched to posturing himself as a world peace worker.
So, here is your task laid out for you:
Read your master Bertrand Russell's "Is There a God," and extract his 'argument' whatever it is.
And we will work together to examine his argument, okay?
@ Dejess
My dear dejess, Oh ye faithful
"Read your master Bertrand Russell's "Is There a God," and extract his 'argument' whatever it is.
And we will work together to examine his argument, okay?"
Bertrand Russell is not my master. As BR is not "My Master" there is no argument to answer according to your post.
CULL:
1.select from a large quantity; obtain from a variety of sources.
You are presenting your preference that we use only one source for your agenda driven argument.
In which case your use of English as a tool of communication is as woeful as your attempts to flog this "dead parrot" of "proof of non existence" you keep shoving around here.
Present the proofs ( Proof/evidence does NOT mean apologetics, supposition, fallacies) for your 'god' and the discussion can proceed.
How's that evidence for a deity looking? You've had enough time to start a new superstion/religion by now.
Tempus fugit...
Hey, Sheldon. I replied to your request for tasty treats if you are still interested. *giggle* Oh, and - hey - Old Man, you may want in on that also. lol
@ TM
Thanks mate but I have my own tribe of rebel Oompas living under my couch and they keep me well supplied with treats, also the cat. Sometimes the candy is a bit fluffy but hey..ir is what it is.
I think you should, oh ye metal men, should, in not more than 100 words give your evidence for my oompas not existing.
@Old Man Re: "....in not more than 100 words give your evidence for my oompas not existing."
Don't be so absurd, Old Man. I happen to know for a fact that MY Oompa-Loompa is the supreme leader of your gang of malcontent rebel Oompa scum, and I have PROOF of such FACTS. The drastic inferiority of your tasty treats are obviously a clear indication of the truth I speak. Therefore, it is entirely up to YOU to prove that I do not have proof of the facts for which I have proof. Also, just to be deceptively clear, it is totally YOUR responsibility to describe the true nature and characteristics of MY Oompa-Loompa and then tell me those parts you do not believe. Only then can we come to terms of agreement that I agree with without submitting to your ridiculous logic and claims of scientific evidence. If we work together on this as a mildly amiable team, I am almost nearly totally somewhat certain we can reach conclusions that anyone could potentially see as being vaguely ambiguous in moving toward satisfying most all positions and points of view. It should be very simple for you, oh ye of tri-wheeled transportation. All you need to do is submit your response in a thesis form, citing all of your evidence and sources. The requested writing should be presented in a colorful three-ring binder with each page encased in its own individual sheet protector and notarized by a certified Notary Public. Until then, it is quite obvious to me your disbelief in my beliefs are truly irrational and difficult for me to believe without your providing proof of why you disbelieve the things you believe I believe are wrong. I cannot make it any more simple for you than that.
@ TM
I yield sir, I yield! I burst into laughter at line 3 and could hardly read for the tears trickling down me trouser legs. The floor and argument is yours!
Tin Man wins the internet tonight!
Aaaaand Tin Man wins the Oscar for the most Satirical post this week!
I've already illustrated this arguments conclusion to you multiple times, as have others. The fact you're ignoring these posts doesn't alter the points made or BR's argument. The burden of proof lies with those making unfalsifiable claims.
You claim a deity exists, and that you believe it's the Christian deity....
Now get on and demonstrate something to support your belief.
@Dejess
You defined "god" as "first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning."
No such "god" exists. As Laviosier said, "Rien ne se perd, rien ne se crée, tout se transforme." ("Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed.")
You cannot prove that something can be created from nothing, ergo, "god the creator" does not exist.
Sapporo,
"You cannot prove that something can be created from nothing"
Do you agree that growing vegetation, such as trees and other plants, produce oxygen? There is evidence that oxygen exists on the Sun. If there is no vegetation on the Sun where does the oxygen come from? Since oxygen is consumed in a fire why is there still oxygen on the Sun, which has been burning for billions of years?
Because the sun is not powered by combustion (it is not powered by the combination of oxygen and hydrocarbons to produce heat and CO2).
Nyarlathotep,
"Because the sun is not powered by combustion (it is not powered by the combination of oxygen and hydrocarbons to produce heat and CO2)."
I know that but the discussion was how can something come from nothing. I cited the example of oxygen coming from living vegetation and that oxygen is also on the Sun, which does not have vegetation. The intent was to show that elements can come from a variety of sources through natural processes. Do you think petroleum comes from dinosaurs?
Just don't tell people that the sun is consuming oxygen by burning. It is not.
@Dejess you said you had empirical evidence of "god" existing, but rather than providing the alleged evidence, you allude to your "god" being like Russell's Teapot. That means you clearly do not have any empirical evidence of "god".
The point of Russell's Teapot is that the onus is on YOU, the person making the claim that god exists, to prove the claim.
He's found an argument that apparently he thinks he can undermine; so now he is insisting his opponents use it. Kind of a "pushy strawman".
Does this woefully ill-informed troll with execrable grammar strike you as intellectually capable of refuting an argument by a philosophers of BR's calibre? I have to admit if I could muster enough interest in his trolling I'd take the time and effort to register how dubious I find his hubris. As it is the best I can manage is "meh"....
I am not limiting you Oh ye atheists to only one Bertrand Russell among your past dead authorities.
And that is one unwittingly but still as from instinct smart self-blinding, that you choose to rely on dead authorities, that saves you from doing any self-thinking at all - for who among the living can argue with past dead writers?
Still I am impressed that you some of you don't accept the false words of Bertrand Russell in his dishonest utterances making fun of God, instead of doing some genuinely honest and rational thinking on the existence of God.
Now, I see again that you Oh ye atheists do not have any argument at all, as you rely on past dead writers as your authority, namely, for a vicarious but dishonest explanation for taking up with the identity of atheists.
That is very shallow from your part.
To its core, it is plain, pure, clear, obvious 100% evasion from your duty to your self-respect as members of the species homo sapiens, to undertake rational thinking on the question, Is there a God?
Do your very own personal self-thought up and written out thinking on why you don't accept the existence of God, instead of relying upon dead writers - you should know more of existence than your dead heroes in denying God existing.
You see, it is clear to people who study you, Oh ye atheists: you have no argument at all, but only psychology for denying God existing, namely, emotional attitudes.
So examine your emotional inner conflicts, and finally learn to think cognitively, instead of dwelling on your emotively pent-up grudges against God.
That is what you are so very vacuous with, nothing of any argument at all from your very self-thought up explanation of why you deny God existing.
What you have is plain arbitrary blind stubborn irrational belief, nothing at all of any rational grounding for your declaration that there is no God.
That is what you have to admit, namely, you are totally empty in regard to any argument that God does not exist.
That is also the same problem with one notoriously false thinker, Bertrand Russell, scil., pent-up grudges against God, to rationalize his lack of self-discipline in regard to Victorian conventional but still today traditionally publicly prevailing morality in sex.
My own conclusion in regard to atheists, is that there is the dire need from their part to investigate the psychology of their self-identity as atheists, for there is absolutely nothing of any rational explanation on cognitive grounds.
Think about that!
Paging FormerAtheist, tell me what was your if any argument when you were an atheist?
The argument is still that no one can demonstrate any objective evidence for a deity. To believe anything without any evidence is irrational.
@Dejess
If the problem wit atheists is tat they rely on "on dead authorities" . Who has been dead longer, Bertram Russel, or Abraham, Moses, JC, and the people who wrote the Bible and Quram? Pleeeease....
@Aparez Re: "Who has been dead longer, Bertram Russel, or Abraham, Moses, JC,..."
Slight correction, if I may, Aparez. Good ol' JC isn't dead, remember? He still lives. Rose from the grave. The whole miracle thing. Yadda-yadda-yadda. Matter of fact, I've heard he was spotted recently having coffee with Elvis in a little diner in Bangladesh.
Dear readers here, let you sit back and witness what is the reaction of my request to atheists:
Dear atheists, do you have any information at all on any concept of God? Please present it when you write again.
I predict, they will go into all manners of evasion, from coming up with any information of any concept of God, in their if any at all, database of information as people who do read all fields of human knowledge.
"Dear atheists, do you have any information at all on any concept of God?"
Which one? Doesn't matter the answer is yes, they're fictional creations that no one can demonstrate any objective evidence for. As of course you have been told repeatedly, but choose to ignore as you're trolling. I predict you think this is impressive, and wish there was someone with you in your parents basement to see how "clever" you are.
Romans 1:20
All the atheist I know seem to be pretty intelligent.
We as humans have been given domain over all the animals of the earth.
I’m sorry if you can look at this world and believe that we are just some kind of mistake or just happened to pop up into existence over the course of millions of years.
I mean each one of us has a unique fingerprint, not one of us are the same.
You don’t wanna believe in God (I’m Christian)
You want hard proof or evidence that God exists and created us all and the universe.. but it is very simple
He’s given us miracles and sources, all kinds of things that we can research to find him in.
I mean Jesus came through Jewish bloodlines and the Jews still had him crucified because they were to stuck in there own minds to realize that messiah was right in front of their eyes..
The Old Testament has 48 prophecies that it said the messiah would fulfill when he came..
Jesus fulfilled every single last one of them!
A mathematician figured out the chances of someone just fulfilling 8 of those 48 prophecies in a lifetime and he said that if you took silver dollars and stacked them two feet high across the state of Texas and just marked one of the coins. Than had blind person go search for that coin, the probability of them finding it is the same as Jesus just fulfilling 8 of these prophecies. All of them! He fulfilled all of them.
There isn’t just evidence for Jesus inside the Bible, as a matter of fact Jesus’ can be fully documented using sources othe than Bible and match up perfectly to what the Bible says!
What I say to atheists, is to not find religion but find God through the resources we have.. it’s proof enough. Do research, try and prove the Bible wrong! You can’t !
That’s my proof and evidence, science is eventually gonna prove God and to me it doesn’t even have to. The proof is in the book
"A mathematician figured out the chances of someone just fulfilling 8 of those 48 prophecies in a lifetime "
where did you get this?...let me ask you something and i always ask this to every theist here...
do you cherry-pick your bible? do you just like to read what is good for you? do you think its an honest thing to just pick what you like in the bible? its called hypocrisy...shame on you...
"You want hard proof or evidence that God exists and created us all and the universe.. but it is very simple"
don't give me something that came from your crap...its not concrete proof....a bible is not a proof of your god, selfish...
how about the thousands of gods?where is their proof?
"is to not find religion but find God through the resources we have.."
seriously??resources that you have???come on man...!!!
again and again....rational arguments doesn't work with religious people, other wise there won't be any religious people...
12 separate common logical fallacies in one post. Do you mind if I use your post in the common logical fallacy thread?
"We as humans have been given domain over all the animals of the earth."
No we haven't - Hitchens's razor "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
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"I’m sorry if you can look at this world and believe that we are just some kind of mistake or just happened to pop up into existence over the course of millions of years."
Straw man fallacy.
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"You don’t wanna believe in God"
Straw man fallacy.
---------------------------------------------
"You want hard proof or evidence that God exists and created us all and the universe.. but it is very simple
He’s given us miracles and sources, all kinds of things that we can research to find him in."
No he hasn't Hitchens's razor - "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" and this includes assertions for evidence that are made without providing that evidence. Also begging the question, in a claim arguing there is evidence for a deity you assert that very claim as part of your argument.
---------------------------------------------
"Jesus came through Jewish bloodlines and the Jews still had him crucified because they were to stuck in there own minds to realize that messiah was right in front of their eyes.."
No they didn't Hitchens's razor - "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" Also that's a fallacious use of begging the question again. And the claim you know what people thought from 2 thousand years ago without any evidence is hilarious.
---------------------------------------------
"A mathematician figured out the chances..."
No they didn't Hitchens's razor - "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
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" Jesus’ can be fully documented using sources othe than Bible and match up perfectly to what the Bible says!"
No he can't, and no they can't. Hitchens's razor - "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
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"What I say to atheists, is to not find religion but find God through the resources we have.. it’s proof enough."
No it's not Hitchens's razor - "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
-----------------------------------------------
"Do research, try and prove the Bible wrong! You can’t !"
Argumentum ad ignorantiam, and begging the question, two logical fallacies in one sentence, and of course Hitchens's razor applies - "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
--------------------------------------------
"That’s my proof and evidence,"
Sadly it's up to the usual standard of theistic apologetics. I almost feel sad for anyone this ill-informed, I half hope your post is a facetious attempt at humour.
------------------------------------------------
"science is eventually gonna prove God "
Begging the question, and again of course Hitchens's razor applies - "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" I have to ask if you're so confident in science then why do theists deny every scientific fact that that contradicts their superstitious beliefs? That's selection bias, and this one is called the sharp shooter fallacy.
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"to me it doesn’t even have to. The proof is in the book"
Don't read Harry Potter ffs...you'll be waving a stick at the neighbour's kids when they make fun of you.
" You don’t wanna believe in God..."
NO BRAD! JUST NO! "Want" doesn’t come into it! We didn't choose disbelief. We didn't wake up one morning and say " I chose not to believe in god anymore, because I just don't wanna." That's just plain silly! I'm sorry, but it is. Don't you think we'd much prefer the whole box and dice of a benevolent god and sweet afterlife was real and true? Don't you think we wish divine justice really was a thing? We just don’t believe it is!
Arrgh! I get soooo frustrated with this ridiculous notion believers have that atheists have a choice in the matter! It's like telling me I can choose a green sky instead of a blue one.
Brad,
"You don’t wanna believe in God (I’m Christian)"
Why do you believe in the ethnocentric deity called Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies? Yeshua said that he had only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, which indicates that he excluded everyone else. How do you think you will gain admittance to the gaudy bejeweled golden cube called New Jerusalem? If it was meant to be inclusive why not call it Eden or paradise? How do you expect to get through one of the twelve gates dedicated to the twelve tribes of Israel?
Well it all comes down to the simple fact that none of you can prove that there isn’t a God and I don’t have the kinda proof that you want, to prove to you there is a God.
It is fact that the New Testament is the most well kept document throughout history. It’s accuracy in everything it says can be supported.
Some of it being written within a couple years of the resurrection..
Everything else written about any other diety is written hundreds of years after it taking place. Which gives time for story’s to be made up and become legends and for the story’s to be twisted.
Everything in the gospel was written almost directly after Jesus walked the earth, there’s accounts from all over the place.
Everyone agrees Jesus walked the earth, for the disciples to follow Jesus and watch him die on a cross and than all of them go preach the gospel, Saying how they saw him resurrected from the dead . And guess what? almost all of them were martyred!
Would you die for a lie?
Something created all of us and the universe we are in.
Evolution is faulty, micro evolution...ok
Macro evolution No
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