Hi i am Kash, i am new to here, I do appreciate the questions put forward by atheists. Seeking answers in return, manifest my belief in God to be stronger. just wanna share this clip of - Ali son of Abu Talib, ~1400 years back answers on who is God.
Part1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjFMqX6rr2I
Part2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdEIzRVkfBY
Part3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GcnzaikIUM
Quran 41:53
"WE will show them our signs in the Universe and in their own-selves, Until it becomes manifest to them that this is the truth."
Lets just throw a question out there as well, across most countries the current law & order systems are based on Biblical or Quranic recommendations, in an imaginary Atheist state what would you replace it with? since you "suspect" its all man made - then 2000 years later, how is it that you haven't been able to replace it with something better?? why at this moment in time you arent able to create a scripture to outdate the previous teachings?? if you cant accept what is where is the alternative in contrast?
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Yeah, the criminal justice system hasn't moved on. We still crucify people, burn them at the stake, amputate limbs and stone people to death. You can go to any public place in London, New York and Paris and see ii all the time, cheer from the sidelines, why not. Fucking moron.
thank you for you input
yes you have a valid point, yet i do not understand your outrage, we might not be brothers in faith, though i consider you or anyone out here my equal in humanity, lets be civil?
Stop quoting verses from the koran would be a good start. I'll refer you to this post:
There is some unpleasant stuff in the book of the 'religion of peace':
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Top_10_Controversial_Verses_in_the_Qur'an
Sample:
9. "Cut off their hands"
This verse orders an irreversible punishment for thieves, taking away their chance to rehabilitate, improve as human beings and become a productive member of society later on. As an example, Terrence Barkley was arrested on his 16th birthday for stealing cars, but that resulted in him getting out of gangs and into college to study criminal justice at the University of Central Missouri.[1] If Terrence's hands and feet had been cut off according to Islamic laws, none of this would have been possible.
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Qur'an 5:38
Sura 5:33 orders the cutting off of the hands and feet of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger.
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
Then there's paedophilia:
7. A man can marry a girl who hasn't reached puberty
This highly controversial Qur'anic verse prescribes the waiting period of a female who has not yet reached puberty thereby permitting men to have sex with girls who have not reached puberty:
"Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy."
This is pretty familiar:
1. Fight non-Muslims
This widely known verse orders Muslims to fight non-Muslims simply because they do not believe in the same God that Muslims do:
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
Nice, eh? Vicious, perverted stone-age behaviour.
we're getting a lot more Muslims posting than usual. Interesting..........
we feel pain knowing guidance has not reached fellow humans, it hurts =] so if we know something worth sharing, we let you in on it.. its our way of giving back, its our way of caring.. at the end of the day everyone must be happy, me in my bubble, you in your bubble, either way all of us become wiser
I'll play devil's advocate here:
"Lets just throw a question out there as well, across most countries the current law & order systems are based on Biblical or Quranic recommendations, in an imaginary Atheist state what would you replace it with? since you "suspect" its all man made - then 2000 years later, how is it that you haven't been able to replace it with something better?? why at this moment in time you arent able to create a scripture to outdate the previous teachings?? if you cant accept what is where is the alternative in contrast? "
To the original post, a society with its sole foundation being atheism is highly unlikely. Every nation has a history of religious or spiritual beliefs informing their judicial systems. There never has been a truly non faith based judicial system. If such a system magically comes about in the future, the results of such will be unknown, since it is so foreign to current systems.
And what is the need for scriptures in judicial law? We DON'T use scriptures in judicial law
@Nutmeg
there are misinterpreted things and things you dont agree with.. the desert rose have thorns, its part of its protection and beauty
do you seek a clarity??
or just push the debate to uncommon practices and lead people away, far from the good it offers. for example;Religion says do not consume toxic/alcoholic food/beverages. and limits consumption of meat to certain animals only.
whats the Atheism code on that?? would you eat any animal? or defend alcohol consumption just because of self preference?? do you have laws on how to treat neighbors?? or you just sit there denie everything and follow your carnal desires, that makes one equal to animals until we use the intellect to reflect, or read the chapter on the Bee, how this animal goes around and w/e it eats and from its body comes no waste but a product -honey- which is very beneficial for humans. can you not see that from the smallest animal to the biggest and vegetation, minerals in soil, the sun, the moon, the rains, the winds, the electromagnetic fields, the layers in the skies, everything around us, is there to sustain us, thats why the creator says
" Which is it, of the favours of your Lord, that ye deny? "
You're right here are things I don't agree with, like mutilation, child rape and murder, that the koran endorses. So if you identify as a muslim, those are the things that you accept. I note that you haven't disagreed with them, because that would mean that you do not accept the koran and that you're not a muslim.
That makes you, and I'm picking my words here so as not to offend the others, a piece of garbage. You should really fuck off and take your filth with you. And take your child-rapist prophet with you.
i totally agree with you, mutilation, child rape and murder are all crimes, it is not endorsed.. in early days people matured faster.. you can just look back 200 years instead of 1400.. in western civilizations, people married earlier around the age of 15~ and teenagers start to exhibit sexual experimentation around this age still today.. also lifespan were shorter in that era so people simply married earlier it was a common practice at that time across the whole world. times have changed, the current standard is 16 or 18 or 21 or 23.. still today we have a diverse range of thoughts on when a person is mature enough to get married, or for example to best of your knowledge, when should parents permit their children to have intercourse?? what age would you suggest??
@Kash
Seriously could you at least try to understand what atheism stands for.
Because without understanding our position you keep repeating things that are either stupid or irrelevant to us.
"law & order systems"
"alternative in contrast?"
"Atheism code"
These are all arguments that commit a fallacy called Argument from Consequences.
(Arguing from consequences is speaking for or against the truth of a statement by appealing to the consequences of accepting or rejecting it. Just because a proposition leads to some unfavorable result does not mean that it is false. Similarly, just because a proposition has good consequences does not all of a sudden make it true.)
An atheist is a person that lacks belief in the theistic claim.
We do not have a choice in the matter, we don't believe in your god because people like you failed to meet our level of acceptance for your claim.
Basically you have not even built a non-contradictory case for your god.
Expecting a sane person which was not indoctrinated/brainwashed when he was a child to believe contradictory things is just stupid.
Your Koran has more contradictions to morality and other things we know than there are drops of water in the ocean.
"the desert rose have thorns"
Does not cut it, sorry, we still see it as an evil book.
Even if your god was real and the Koran had some information on him, the way he chose to rely this information(book???) is so stupid that it makes your god look weak, stupid, incompetent and pathetic to say the least.
I repeat it.
We do not have a choice in our lack of belief in father Christmas, and neither do we have a choice in our lack of belief in your god.
You and people like you, simply failed to convince us he is real since your arguments are so illogical.
What is Apollo? What is Aphrodite? What is Hermes? What is Dionysus? What is Ares? What is Hades? What is Zeus? What is Hephaestus? What is Poseidon? What is Athena? What is Hera?
Oh wait, that was a rhetorical question wasn't it? My bad.
Unless you were trying to answer it, in which case you failed.
In response to your second question; we don't own slaves anymore (in addition to the many topics mentioned by Nutmeg above) because our ideas of morality constantly evolve and therefore saying that we don't do it any better is blatantly wrong, since we obviously do.
EDIT:
Honey is actually food for the honeybee. If you have any confusion about that just walk up to a beehive and start taking it for yourself, if it only exists for us then they won't mind you taking it.
And then I get sarcastic because you don't seem to pay any attention to the world around you and want to argue things that will not fit into your simple logic.
Kash, are you a Muslim?
You say you consider nutmeg 'or anyone out there' your equal. Would you consider nutmeg 'or anyone out there' your equal if they were, say, Jewish or female? Where do you live? Do you consider the eating of some animals evil? Do you consider sex outside of marriage evil? Do you think sharia law is right? Do you promote the institutionalization of a particular religion to be advisable?
Do you think you or the other adherents of your religion have all the correct answers? What about those who disagree? What happens to them?
If I want to have sex with 50 or 100 people, what should happen? If I have bacon for breakfast every morning, what should happen? If I choose not to circumcise my son or daughter, what should happen? If I say your god is a joke, what should hsppen?
Hum?
Still waiting...
Are you going to answer any of these questions kash?
yes regardless of belief we all are equals in humanity.. if nutmeg is hungry and i got food, i have no interest in his colour of belief, be it a female or jewish like you mention, I wish everyone warmth, food, shelter and clothing. so yes any other human is my equal.. if i deserve and want luxuries in life, i wish the same for everyone out there. eating certain animals is not evil.. its prohibited for health precautions.. i feel this urge to advise you how other kinds of meat is healthier, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js1NorWcYP8
intercourse is a need and it should be fulfilled!!! imagine 100 years back without contraceptives.. if people were to think like you and change 100 partners.. the spread of disease and emotional trauma of not feeling loved instead just doing the gig? such things are not healthy for a balanced happy society, take a better look at the bigger picture, not just yourself, thats why there are laws to keep a society safe and in balance.
there is no circumcision for females, its an limited African practice and there is a big world campaign to eliminate it. everyone should support this cause.. as for your son, he can make that choice himself. its practiced every where in the world, for the benefits are proven.
as for God being a joke, the joke is on you, being too blind at heart not to recognize/acknowledge your own creator. you have a galaxy as your picture, if the big bang were 1mili second too fast or too slow.. the whole universe would not form.. this perfect timing has a creator.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Om5TNJVmE
you are right to ask these questions, because whatever you practice should be backed by facts/scientific evidence and a mature understanding of the whole concept.
Soliciting an atheist to embrace faith, is equal to asking a human being to change their sexuality.
Not only is it insulting, it is a borderline ultimatum which raises the hackles of all independent minds with a spine.
When you ask me to consider your faith, you are effectively raping my inner sanctum.
A world free of faith would be a world bereft of false hope. The logical replacement for a false god is the joy to be found through your own potential.
Freewill is the way, creativity is the drive, equality and love are the rewards.
The man itself didnt know anything. That's why God sent the Word to guide mankind. God says in all the books that whoever accepts guidance is for his benefit and whoever doesnt its his loss. Its very simple. Its the simple law of Nature. Do Good have Good. As you sow so shall you reep. Those who doesnt believe in God still lives in God's World. Whether they accept it or not. If We go by God's Rules we will succeed. If we don't we don't have right to blame anyone.
God gave you the power to learn and speak. To see and hear. Would you be debating here if you didnt have any one of these. Would you be here if you were illiterate ? Its our job to convey the word of God to others. Not to object it. God has sent a book that fulfills everything. If only we care.
Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: “Read the Qur’an, for verily it will come on the Day of Standing as an intercessor for its companions.” [Muslim]
Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: “The best of you are the ones who learn the Qur’an and teach it to others” [Al-Bukhari]
As an authentic hadith in At-Tirmithee proves: “Whoever reads a letter from the Book of Allah, he will have a reward. And that reward will be multiplied by ten. I am not saying that “Alif, Laam, Meem” is a letter, rather I am saying that “Alif” is a letter, “laam” is a letter and “meem” is a letter.” So increase your recitation of the Qur’an to gain these merits
Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: “Verily the one who recites the Qur’an beautifully, smoothly, and precisely, he will be in the company of the noble and obedient angels. And as for the one who recites with difficulty, stammering or stumbling through its verses, then he will have TWICE that reward.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
The Prophet said: “The Qur’an is an intercessor, something given permission to intercede, and it is rightfully believed in. Whoever puts it in front of him, it will lead him to Paradise; whoever puts it behind him, it will steer him to the Hellfire.” [An authentic hadith found in At-Tabaraanee, on the authority of ‘Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood]
“And indeed We showed him (Fir‘awn (Pharaoh)) all Our Signs and Evidences, but he denied and refused”
[Ta-Ha 20:56].
“They have hearts wherewith they understand not, they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones”
[al-A‘raaf 7:179].
“it is not you that they deny, but it is the Verses (the Quran) of Allah that the (polytheists and wrongdoers) deny”
[al-An‘aam 6:33].
That prophet there, is he the one who married a nine-year old girl? You should fuck off out of here with your filth.
Does man not consider that We created him from a [mere] sperm-drop - then at once he is a clear adversary? And he presents for Us an example and forgets his [own] creation. He says, "Who will give life to bones while they are disintegrated?" Say, "He will give them life who produced them the first time; and He is, of all creation, Knowing." [It is] He who made for you from the green tree, fire, and then from it you ignite. (Al Quran: Surah Yasin : 77-80)
Jamal.....
Your at it again......you said.....
""The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him, "BE!" and he was." (3:59) Quran"
But now you quote...
"Does man not consider that We created him from a [mere] sperm-drop ...."
Is this not yet another contradiction in your infallible book ?
You know the book that you say has no contradictions....
By the way...I previously asked you a question that you seemed to have ignored....I wonder if you'd condescend to answer it now..
"This "Allah" you keep mentioning.....
Is this the same Allah that was worshipped at Mecca ,at the Kaaba .....before the birth of Mohamed . ?"
@Kash
Hi.
You asked about the outrage and for keeping the discussion civil, so I will try to answer and try to explain the animosity.
"across most countries the current law & order systems are based on Biblical or Quranic recommendations"
I don't think this is the case. There are a lot of laws based in previous religions and I would guess that most laws have secular origin, sprung from practical consequences in real life.
"2000 years later, how is it that you haven't been able to replace it with something better?"
This a completely misdirected question.
Atheism is not an ordered system with common guidelines. Atheists throughout history have been people who are persecuted, shunned, imprisoned, killed, etc, and they have often been alone. Many have simply kept their beliefs a secret for fear of what might happen and this still goes on in many parts of the world. Your questions are full of incorrect assumptions.
"if you cant accept what is where is the alternative in contrast?"
Unfortunately, this sounds like a very insulting question.
In my experience, most atheist simply think that there is no evidence that supports a belief in any god. I other words, if sufficient evidence would present itself or (even better) if a god were to actually show up, we would believe.
From that point of view, atheist are the people who live in reality and see reality for what it is.
So to ask "if you cant accept what is" sounds really the opposite of what most atheists would consider true. Those who believe without sufficient evidence to support their beliefs, have blind faith, and therefore do not accept reality for what it really is.
"we feel pain knowing guidance has not reached fellow humans, it hurts =] so if we know something worth sharing, we let you in on it.. its our way of giving back, its our way of caring.."
Even if you mean well, this sounds very patronizing and therefore insulting.
We are all ages here from teenagers to having one foot in the grave. Many atheists have contemplated questions about belief and religion a lot, and many come from religious homes and communities. Yet, your question sounds like you think all atheists (and believers of other religions) are misguided childlike minds who just doesn't understand.
Hello watchman,
First of all creation of man isnt an simple as you might think. , it is clear that mankind did not realize that the embryo is created of a man’s sperm mingled with a woman’s ovum except in the 18th century, and only to be confirmed at the beginning of the 20th century.
So first of all lets not teach science to the one who taught science and birth to embryologist 1400 years ago. Lets not talk about one thing only and leave all others. I will give you to the point description of Quran explaination of embryology of human being. As im not a embryologist so I'll take some reference from top embryologist of the world also. Bare with me. And try to go through the whole process.
Allah says in the Quran:
“O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the Recreation (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a chewed-like lump of flesh, formed and unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term.” (22: 5) .
According to Tafsir Ibn Kathir, this reference to man's creation from “تُرَابٍ”, or dust, implies the origin of mankind viz. the creation of the first human being, Prophet Adam [عليه السلام], from dust: “[“And Allah did create you from dust, then from Nutfah”], means, He initiated the creation of your father Adam from dust, then He created his offspring from semen of worthless water.”
Modern science has, by now, explained the entire process of the creation of a human being, down to those minute, microscopic intricacies that were invisible to the human eye centuries ago.
Many times in the Qur'an, Allah draws our attention to the way we were created. It is interesting to remember though, that at the time when these verses were revealed, human beings had limited knowledge about the process of human birth, unlike now.
When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91 In another verse of the Qur'an we are told:
We created man from an extract of clay. (Qur'an, 23:12)
The Arabic word "sulala," translated as "extract" in the verse, means "representative example, essence." As we have seen, the information revealed in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago confirms what modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil.
Allah says:
“What is the matter with you, that ye are not conscious of Allah’s majesty,- Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages" (71: 13-14)
He It is Who created all things in the best way and began the creation of man from clay, and made his progeny from an extract of despised fluid (Sulalah) ” (32: 7-8)
So Adam was the first one and his creation started from clay just like Jesus Pbuh was born without a Father So his creation is similar to Adam Pbuh.
As Adam Pbuh was a man like us and was created with Clay (As he was the first One) and a soul was breathed into him, Similar is the case of Jesus Pbuh.
And God said, to the Angels:
“And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: ‘I am going to create a human (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.” (Quran 38:71-72)
God honoured the first humman, Adam, in countless ways. Allah blew his soul into him, He fashioned him with His own hands and He ordered the Angels to bow down before him. And God said to the Angels:
“....Prostrate to Adam and they prostrated except Iblees (Satan)....” (Quran 7:11)
For more details please feel free to visit
http://www.islamicmedicine.org/embryoengtext.htm
May Allah The Glorious guide you to the right path.
“Soon will We show them our signs in the furthest horizons, and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth” (41: 53). Verily says the Almighty Allah.
What a load of utter rubbish. You should fuck off out of here and take your bloody book with you.
@Jamal......
You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I asked you about the detail of "Embryology in the Quran"....I did not...
Your SPAMING of the site with walls of text is disrespectful.....either answer the questions you are asked or admit that you don't know or simply stay silent.
If you care to look back...the actual question you were asked was.....
Do you not see the "sperm" quote and the "dust" quote ...as evidence of contradictions within the Quran ...?
If not why not..?
By the way...I note that English is not your first language BUT.....are you familiar with the word "PLAGIARISM" ......
If you are going to quote from other peoples work it is considered at least polite (if not ,in some cases a legal requirement) to acknowledge the fact.
Im not sure where you are copying and pasting this stuff from.....I've found at least 4 sites containing the same rubish that you have posted ...I've also found 3 sites which debunk it ....I'll provide one of the links as a demonstration :
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/11/23/islamic-embryology-ove...
Any way ..... please answer the questions I asked......
That's 1/ do these varying quotes class as contradictions...?
and 2/ Is the Allah you keep refering to the same deity that was worshiped at the Kaaba in Mecca before the birth of Mohammed ?
Allah is the same since before the creation of man and will be the same always. All prophets worshipped Allah. The creation of man is accurately explained in the Quran and no book has ever explained it before or after till now. Man is made up of bones, blood, soil extracts, flesh and so much more. Every detail is there in Quran. Science has proved it too. Don't you see a birth is a miracle of Allah? Allah claimed it and gave every detail. Will you still not believe?
Jamal - "Science has proved it too."
LOL, no.
yes DNA code is scientific evidence.. here is a small clip- cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBeCxKzYiIA
@Kash..
Glad to see you are still around......
Sorry but you are wrong ......
DNA is scientific evidence.....
but it reinforces the argument for evolution by showing the close links between our own species and chimpanzees and then gorillas .....
Thus mankind evolved......there was no "creation".
link..
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/bill-nye-creationism-evolution
Kash:
1) you said science proved it, now you have back peddled saying there is evidence for it (these aren't the same thing)
2) as watchman pointed out, that isn't even evidence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEkWz6DAAOU
here at well minute 8 onwards, how the universe couldnt have been otherwise
Pages