What if we atheist here were the ones fooled?

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LogicFTW's picture
What if we atheist here were the ones fooled?

No, do not worry, I have not found "god" I still consider myself a strong atheist, but a thought occurred to me that I had to share, if anything, for a bit of self deprecating humour.

The easiest way to explain this thought is a Santa Claus comparison:

What if, much like Santa Claus, for god/religion the vast majority of the human population is in on the joke/lie/trick? That almost no one believes in the nonsense of god/religion, but to help out people that do not see the obvious they do not say anything around the rare religious person, but also for the people that do not see that it is immediately obvious, (me and maybe some atheist here,) to just about everyone else knows there is none of this god/religion nonsense and just about everyone knows this and knows everyone knows this. Just like Santa Claus is made up to keep kids happy but all the "adults" in the room know the truth but keep it to themselves this knowledge.

All these more enlightened, intelligent people just humour religious people and loud mouthed atheist just to be nice. Just to support us, like a parent would support a child's santa claus lie.

For the theist: "There there, of course there is god, that has a plan for you, and a heaven where you and all your friends/family are after they die." Now you can fall asleep with a smile on your face believing this lie.

And for a few of us loudmouth atheists that do not fully understand: "there there, of course you are right, and billions of other people got it all horribly wrong, rest easy tonight knowing you got it 'right.' Sleep well tonight champ!"

The scary part to me is, I wish this was the case, that I was simply a fool, and just about everyone else was in on the joke/trick. That the vast majority of people, (lets say 90+ percent,) treat god like they do Santa Claus for kids, just for adults not clever enough to know the obvious, that not only is there no god, but it is obvious that just about everyone knows there is no god/religion.

Instead of what it is today: where a vast majority of people on some level believe in the god fairy tale, with a few of us that can look at actual evidence and sound reasoning, fighting back the tide of ignorance and burying heads in sand.

This idea of course is garbage, it is not falsifiable, there is no evidence for it, but it makes a good example to me, of a question/theory/idea that is not falsifiable, which should be discarded rather then given legitimacy. At least beyond a conversation piece/debate.

Thoughts everyone?

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Cognostic's picture
Two things.

Two things.

FIRST: If we are fooled it is the fault of the God for not making himself known. Prove to me that this all powerful god could not let people know he was real. Lucifer knew he was real and still left heaven. Knowing god is real has nothing at all to do with free will. No one was as close to God as Lucifer and he still chose to abandon the ASS.

SECOND: If this god exists and he is the God of the Christian bible, I would have enough self worth and dignity NOT TO WORSHIP HIM. He is an asshole..

LogicFTW's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic
"If we are fooled it is the fault of the God for not making himself known."

What does god making himself known have to do with it? Nowhere in my original post did I say god was real, I instead went the other way with that concept, and said that what if 90+ percent of the population knew that god was not real, (along with the accompanying religions,) and that population knew that 90+% of the population knew god was not real, much like santa claus? The people doing the fooling is the population at large that knows there is no god and unlike us, knows that the vast majority other then a few "special" people that god in any form is not real, just like Santa Claus.

Do you consider Lucifer to be real? Or a bit of tongue in the cheek humour I missed?

I fully agree with your second point, but what does that have to do with my original post? Did you read my post in full? I know it got a bit long. I even said at the end of the post that the whole idea is a good example of an unfalsifiable premise, and therefore garbage, but it is an interesting thought. As well as the accompanying thought that I would actually prefer that to be the reality of things, then the actual reality as I do not have to contend with 90+ percent of the population actually believing in some form of "god" and religion, instead of being able to easily dismiss such a unsupported idea, much like how most all of us can easily dismiss Santa Claus as not real.

Cognostic's picture
@ What if we atheist here

@ What if we atheist here were the ones fooled? (Atheist forum. Assumed you were speaking to atheists.)

First Point addresses this specifically.
.

Mutorc S'yriah's picture
Sure thing Cognostic. Further

Sure thing Cognostic. Further, if heaven exists, and it's all nice, peaches and cream, no nasty stuff, no murder, no ass-holes, only love and peace and such, then is there free will up there ? And if both apply, (free will in heaven, plus no evil, no nastiness etc.), then it must be possible for the two to co-exist at the same "time" and in the same "location", so there is no logical reason not on earth. Thus "God" must be a dope, an ass-hole, or non-existent, IMHO, (or else the reward for being a "God" loving Jesus freak is a scam).

Sapporo's picture
A god that creates people

A god that creates people knowing they will be punished is an idiot.

LogicFTW's picture
I fully agree, the whole idea

I fully agree, the whole idea is idiotic, but what does that have to do with my original post?

Sapporo's picture
(I'm sorry @LogicForTW for

(I'm sorry @LogicForTW for not properly understanding your OP previously)

If we have been fooled, then that would be an act of malice. Practically, it would make no real difference. If you knowingly propagate falsehood, there is no difference compared to inadvertently propagating falsehood.

LogicFTW's picture
I like that point a lot

I like that point a lot Sapporo, Have not considered that.

arakish's picture
Just think about this, the

Just think about this, the Absolutists have created a deity that wants to be found, wants us to find it, and this deity is capable of literally anything. It should not be a problem for this God of theirs to provide evidence that would convince us of its existence. Thus, I ask, "Who is trying to fool who?"

rmfr

Peurii's picture
The Grinch?

The Grinch?

Terminal Dogma's picture
This is kind of a Pascal

This is kind of a Pascal wager, if God/s exist how do you know you belie in the right one....The mathematics shows most all humans have got it wrong.

Conclusion - it is not important for God/s to be known by humans.

Sky Pilot's picture
Just about everyone has a

Just about everyone has a stake in keeping the god fairy tale alive. Religion is a very big business. So someone doesn't have to actually believe in a god to sell the lie that his favorite deity exists. In the Bible only a handful of people really believed in Yahweh and they supposedly saw some of the miracles. When Moses came down from the mountain with the stone tablets he got pissed because the people didn't believe in his delusion. And they had just walked across the Red Sea.

Terminal Dogma's picture
Gonna be honest here, if y

Gonna be honest here, if y'all don't believe I am God gonna smite yr asses into oblivion.

Your choice.

LogicFTW's picture
I refuse to be worried about

I refuse to be worried about a god that says "yer asses" Especially a god that misspells it to yr, or yr for your if you managed to miss 2 letters instead of one :)

Terminal Dogma's picture
Don't cry about the smiting

Don't cry about the smiting yer gonna get then brah.

arakish's picture
@Fatal Gospel

@Fatal Gospel

Already been smited. There ain't nothing you could do to even scare me. Thus, take your monstrous self elsewhere.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
@Term-dog Re: Smiting

@Term-dog Re: Smiting

Well, just so you know, I bow to no man nor god(s). Soooo.... guess you better get to smiting. Give it your best shot. Be advised, however, many have tried to "take me out of the game" over the years. Yet.... I'm still here. *smile*

Terminal Dogma's picture
@tinman, I knew you would

@tinman, I knew you would post that when I created the universe (omnipotence etc) that's why I pre-built your smite into the creation and made you out of tin....see how that works.

Tin-Man's picture
@Term-dog

@Term-dog

Well...crap. *strumming fingers of one hand on table while resting chin on the other hand* Still not bowing or kneeling, though. *sticking out tongue*

Terminal Dogma's picture
Poking tongues and feigning

Poking tongues and feigning that you have actual feelings is just acting. You are made of tin, you can't feel - this is my smite.

PayPal me $2 and I will unsmite you and maketh thee of flesh.

Tin-Man's picture
@Term-dog

@Term-dog

Two dollars?...Just two dollars?... Wow! What a bargain! Hell, in that case, what can I get for twenty bucks?

Terminal Dogma's picture
That does not include any

That does not include any transaction fees or local taxes.

For a 20 I can make you titanium man. Pretty good upgrade in my perfect opinion.

Tin-Man's picture
@Term-dog

@Term-dog

Titanium upgrade? For only twenty bucks? Now THAT is definitely a bargain! (Titanium is some expensive shit.) Oh, hey, could that, by any chance, include rocket thrusters in my palms and feet? Tony Stark would be SO jealous!

arakish's picture
@Ultimate Blow-Hard

@Ultimate Blow-Hard

Can I be made into a Sequoia for the same price?

rmfr

Sky Pilot's picture
Do what makes you happy.

Do what makes you happy.

algebe's picture
Your theory may hold some

Your theory may hold some truth. I think the vast majority of nominal theists don't have many conscious thoughts about religion. If someone asked them about their belief in god, they'd blink in surprise. It's like asking them if they believe in air.

The ones who think most about religion are the non-believers, including not only atheists, but also priests, bishops, cardinals, preachers, pastors, popes, mullahs, and ayatollahs. Anyone with a brain who spends any time around religion is going to become an atheist pretty damn quick. Some of us are honest about it. Others can't face losing their steady incomes, and all the wafers, wine and children they can eat.

So yes. I think creatures like Cardinal Pell and Willy Lane Craig are humoring us and the Christians when they debate with atheists. Scumbags they may be, but stupid they ain't.

LogicFTW's picture
I know most would never admit

@Algebe

I know most would never admit to it even completely anonymously, much less be polled about it, but I would love to see what the percentage of religious "leaders" actually do not believe in god, and know it, but continue what they were doing, because of the money, status, comfort, etc.

Certainly have met religious leaders that have gone atheist, even on this very board/site. (Definitely braver fellows then I am!)

Tin-Man's picture
May not be exactly on topic,

May not be exactly on topic, but I am almost thoroughly convinced that most (if not ALL) of those multi-millionaire TV evangelists do not believe a single word of the ridiculous malarkey they spew out to their "flocks". A person would be hard pressed to convince me those guys are not simply hardcore showmen who have found an easy way to make a ton of money using the gullibility of the masses. On one hand, I have to admire their ingenuity and "commitment" to their cause. On the other hand, though, I have to shake my head and throw my hands up in disgust at the blatantly vile deception of the whole thing. These are things that occupy my mind sometimes. LOL

LogicFTW's picture
It is a question I wrestle

It is a question I wrestle with too. Who is worse? The lying stealing TV evangelist that may or may not believe his own lies? Or the people that watch/support/pay money to the person?

On one hand you have a person take advantage of gullible masses, on the other hand you have gullible masses that allow themselves to be tricked due to.... intellectual laziness? The need for the warm but false blanket of lies to keep them "warm" at night?

50/50 split maybe?

arakish's picture
What was it Obi-Wan once said

What was it Obi-Wan once said? (I paraphrase)

"Who is the bigger fool? The fool himself, or the fool who follows him?"

rmfr

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