Why Do "Some Of Us" Do This?

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Nyarlathotep's picture
John 6IX Breezy - Then his

John 6IX Breezy - Then his wife told him that I'm right, and ethnicities are hard to define

She didn't say you were right, she laughed at you for making such a ridiculous statement about the majority of ethnicities coming from Rome. Then this morning she laughed at me for following you over the cliff by using the term incorrectly myself.

...'s picture
Me yesterday at 8:43pm - "So

Me yesterday at 8:43pm - "So its clearly a definition issue: "There is no precise or universally accepted definition of the terms 'ethnic group' or 'nationality'."

Me yesterday at 9:27pm - "You and I differ genetically, but we may not differ ethnically."

You today at 11:37am, directed at Chimp - "I spoke to my wife this morning and asked her about the Hispanic thing mentioned earlier in the thread; and yes, what you said here seems to be exactly right. Apparently ethnicity is more about culture (which is dominated by language), and not about physical characteristics (genetics and such). So we were barking up the wrong tree the whole time. Learn something new every day!

Nyarlathotep's picture
Also you said my wife said

Also you said my wife said "ethnicities are hard to define". She didn't say that, hint that, or suggest it in any way. Please do not tell lies about my wife.

Algebe's picture
"Very well then, you're

"Very well then, you're European, I'm sure you too can tell the difference between a Spaniard, a Frenchman, and an Italian."

Not until they speak. Linguistically and culturally most of us have a Roman heritage (except perhaps the Germans and Scandinavians), but ethnically we're a lot older than Rome. The Romans, by the way, thought they were descended from refugees from the Trojan War in Turkey.

Genetic studies, such as the National Genographic Project, have shown that we all walked out of Africa around 70K years ago. But the people who remained in Africa were also Homo Sapiens, so we must have evolved some time before that. All of the so-called racial diversity we have in the world today has developed in the 2,000 or so generations since that time. But it's just skin deep. Any human from any ethnic group in the world can produce fertile offspring with someone from any other ethnic group (and we often do).

Religions tend to point us in the other direction, telling us that god created separate races that should never mix. It's not just the Judaeo-Christian brand, either. Do you remember all the fuss over the "Kennewick Man"? When someone suggested that ancient people from Europe might have migrated to the Americas during an ice age, the local native American people got really upset because it conflicted with their religious belief that they had been created right there.

...'s picture
"Religions tend to point us

"Religions tend to point us in the other direction, telling us that god created separate races that should never mix."

Lol I'm not sure which religions those are (not denying they exist) but mine tells us "Be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it.” - Genesis 9:7.

Algebe's picture
"- Genesis 9:7."

"- Genesis 9:7."

Other people (e.g., the Mormons) have used that very same book that you quoted to justify racial intolerance and slavery on the basis of things like the curse of Ham (Gen. 9:20–27). In the U.S., so-called mix-race marriages were banned until quite recently under religion-based anti-miscenagation laws. Those laws weren't declared unconstitutional until 1967.

chimp3's picture
People ask me all the time if

People ask me all the time if I am Greek. At least three Jewish friends of mine asked me if I was Sephardic. Ethnicity is not an accurate measure for genetic lineages.

Nyarlathotep's picture
chimp3 - Ethnicity is not an

chimp3 - Ethnicity is not an accurate measure for genetic lineages.

I spoke to my wife this morning and asked her about the Hispanic thing mentioned earlier in the thread; and yes, what you said here seems to be exactly right. Apparently ethnicity is more about culture (which is dominated by language), and not about physical characteristics (genetics and such). So we were barking up the wrong tree the whole time. Learn something new every day!

...'s picture
I told you! That's why it was

I told you! That's why it was better to talk about population. Cause we are all different genetically. (Except for twins).

But I actually think Hispanics may not be on the list, because they are a mix of white, black, and indigenous.

Nyarlathotep's picture
John 6IX Breezy - I told you!

John 6IX Breezy - I told you! That's why it was better to talk about population.

No, for two reasons:

  • You were the one who suggested ethnicity in the first place (and I foolishly followed suit because I thought I knew what ethnicity meant and I was wrong).
  • No argument about population levels can support your statement (as I already explained), the fact that this is still going over your head is... well not good.
...'s picture
"Apparently ethnicity is more

"Apparently ethnicity is more about culture (which is dominated by language), and not about physical characteristics (genetics and such)."

Your wife's comment is a good observation, but it's missing one important thing. That all these attributes are not mutually exclusive. Genetic differences, culture, and language all occur simultaneous.

When you isolate a group on an island, their genetic pool will mix and churn, producing similarities among all its inhabitants. Isolation from outside communication will also make that group begin to have its own culture, and its own language, etc.

So language, and culture are good predictors of "ethnic" differences at the genetic level.

chimp3's picture
Isolation is a key word here.

Isolation is a key word here. For those of us of Indo-Euopean lineage there has been more exchange than isolation since the agricultural age began. For Bible literalists , the Solomonic Dynasty is rooted in Israel and Ethiopia.

Nyarlathotep's picture
John 6IX Breezy - Lol so you

John 6IX Breezy - Lol so you don't think two adults, with 46 chromosomes, 20,000+ genes, have enough genetic information to create the handful of major ethnic groups.

I think you are missing something: a literal reading of the bible stipulates this was done in 6000 years, or about 300 generations. That is where the klaxons of my bullshit detector start ringing.

/e beaten by Algebe

science follower's picture
I would never call a person

I would never call a person stupid, nut rather take them out for coffee or dinner and try to have a rational conversation with them.you have to remember that Christians are usually indoctrinated at an early age.So by the time we can have an honest and open conversation with them they have beliefs that are so ingrained in there mind.As for my own life I was a catholic and then left and went over to Protestantism but one day I heard a debate between a Christian apologist and an atheist, I took especially the part about evil and suffering in the world. also Iheard a question that an apologist couldn`t answer, Which was did he believe that when J esus Christ rose then also the other graves were opened and the saints came out of their graves and went into town.Also saul the jewish Pharisee who studied under Gameil who went on to change his name to what we now know was the apostle Paul he was knocked off his horse, He never met Christ or will meet Christ but he claims to have had a visit from the lord jesus Christ. It was diligently studying that my eyes were opened, This is just a few reasons I site for leaving the faith and the one most of all it is a big money grabber not only in the local church but on television and radio to.Also Christians is what the famous literature par excellence said that religion is suppose to make you behave differently to your fellow man but he never noticed it and he lived to he was 98 years old and won a noble prize.there is no virtue in Christians as Bertrand Russell stated, they act no different, they are judgmental they sleep around are into pornography, they are no different then anybody else.

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