why do you not believe in God?

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TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Going back to the opening

Going back to the opening post,

Hi there guys, just wondering what your reasons are for not believing God exists.

There is no evidence that one or some deities exist.

All there is are a few poorly constructed logical arguments that are underpinned by physics the speakers tend to not understand or out dated and so fourth.

It is purely speculative to the point that it does not warrant the terminology of a hypothesis.

LogicFTW's picture
@TheBlindWatchmaker

@TheBlindWatchmaker
Agreed.

Plus even if we were to waste the time to warrant a hypothesis, we have to consider the counter evidence and arguments to the hypothesis, and there is A LOT of those.

 
 

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arakish's picture
@ JazzTheist

@ JazzTheist

I am putting this at the end so it does not get lost in middle...

Formal Apology

JazzTheist,

I found the post where LogicFTW did admit he post "12 year old girl" and went back and edited.

Sorry, for the accustion.

rmfr

JazzTheist's picture
Thanks; it’s good for you to

Thanks; it’s good for you to have some humility.

arakish's picture
I am always willing to admit

I am always willing to admit to when I am wrong. Thanks for accepting.

rmfr

Randomhero1982's picture
I haven't been on here as

I haven't been on here as long as most of you but there is a distinct trend of theist, believers, religiously minded people... whatever way they wish to describe themselves, that come on here and play the same boring games over and over again.

All they have are the standard arguments, like Kalam, contingency.... etc...

So this is what their precious beliefs have boiled down to... logical arguments.

That's it pretty much, and it's a shame.

Creationists are the very epitmy of the word 'dipshits' but at least they have a go.

But not this fallacy screeching new mob, no sir!

Its a case of where scientific knowledge ends (and not where the universe actually begins, if it indeed had a beginning)...That's where they slide in their little gambit.

Can you demonstrate a causal link to it... well no, because it's outside of the natural world.

So it's ok to build these entire arguments on the findings of science and naturalism, but when they slide in their repertoire of utter bollocks, they then refuse to play by the same rules.

So disappointing.

Rohan M.'s picture
Yep... they think that their

Yep... they think that their personal-experience fluff and pseudo-intellectual sciency-sounding-but-not-really-so-sciency what-ifs will permanently override all rational thought and cause us to go back to uncritically believing in divine magic, talking snakes, people being born to virgins without IVF and being their own fathers, reanimating dead people and themselves, etc. What a shame. This is why I normally steer clear of this debate room to preserve my IQ.

Cognostic's picture
Yes honey, Real atheists are

Yes honey, Real atheists are real things. Just like your bicycle which is a real thing too. You should not twist around on your bicycle. Whether or not atheists have "faith" in anything depends on your definition of faith. If you are using the biblical definition "Faith is justification for truth." then of course you are correct. Typically atheists are critical thinkers and require facts and evidence before believing in a proposition. And of course belief is allocated to the degree of proof. For example. I believe I will get lucky if I swing by your neighborhood. I do not believe this on faith but on past experience. I might have faith that I will get lucky at the local bowling ally; however, this is not based on any information at all and so I have no idea at all if my faith is justified. Faith without facts is unjustified. Faith itself is evidence of nothing. You be good now and don't upset the mean atheists too much.

Sheldon's picture
Wed, 12/19/2018 - 10:53

Wed, 12/19/2018 - 10:53 (Reply to #137)
JazzTheist

"You are trying to con ME by repeating yourself. Again, it's illogical to demand physical evidence for non-physical things. It's like demanding to see a married bachelor."

Obviously that's because married bachelors don't exist, so a very good analogy for once.

Sapporo's picture
JazzTheist: The

JazzTheist: The philosophically necessary first cause

What utter nonsense.

Spectre of Marxism's picture
Because the God I assume you

Because the God I assume you speak of hasn't given any reason for us to believe in him, let alone that he has our best interests in mind, and factoring him into our understanding of the universe complicates, not simplifies, things. "God" (and his attributes) quickly becomes one among many philosophical queries which, while interesting, thought-provoking and entertaining, leads to no practical knowledge of the world and remains an unknowable.

Tin-Man's picture
Very nicely put, Spectre...

Very nicely put, Spectre... *thumbs up*...

Sheldon's picture
Very well put, I must say.

Very well put, I must say.

arakish's picture
I always see this thread with

I always see this thread with many new posts but never see them. I know this thread has gotten to be 12+ pages, and when the first page is the one with a few new posts, I just skip to the last page and never all the other new ones in between. If only there were a better to find the new posts without having to go through every last page of old posts.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
@Arakish

@Arakish

Yeah, I've pretty much just stopped trying to find them at this point. This thread has gotten waaaaay too bulky. Not worth the time now to sift through all these pages just to find three or four scattered posts. Speaking of which....

Small announcement: If anybody has recently responded to any of my posts in this thread, my apologies if I have not replied. I've given up trying to keep up with all the dozens of separate discussions in here. Too difficult to find individual posts. Moving on to other threads now.

arakish's picture
@ Tin-Man

@ Tin-Man

To be honest, I have not noticed whether you have responded or not. Same reason. I see the first few new posts, then skip. Not worried whether you have responded or not.

rmfr

Grinseed's picture
I know this thread has lost

I know this thread has lost appeal but just to add a little balance to the reincarnation claims made in this post concerning Dr Tucker, and the little boy, James Leininger, who supposedly died as a US pilot in WWII, I offer the small contribution of doing a little bit of research.

Dr Jim Tucker, author of the book referred to, (from Wikipedia)
"Though raised as a Southern Baptist, Tucker does not subscribe to any particular religion, and claims to be sceptical about reincarnation, but sees it as providing the best explanation for phenomena associated with the strongest cases investigated to date."
However he seems to think there is a quantum explanation for the transfer of memory at point of death, and not the eternal existence of souls or spirits.

Carol Bowman, the counsellor from whom the Leingingers sort help for their little boy, has built a lucrative career out of the belief in reincarnation. She cannot be regarded as an uninterested investigator, seeking only the truth of the matter.

Robert Todd Carroll, the US sceptic, referred to Bowman's work in reincarnation as being the study of "firsthand testimony to ignorance of science, to gullibility and, above all, to wishful thinking."

Professor Christopher C. French, professor of psychology, University of London, has said reincarnation is "an intriguing psychological phenomenon, but I think it is far more likely that such apparent memories are, in fact, false memories rather than accurate memories of events that were experience in a past life."
And also "The problem with Dr Tucker's research is that the research typically begins long after the child has been accepted as a genuine reincarnation by his or her family and friends."

Of James Leininger he says, "Although his parents insisted they never watched World War II documentaries or talked about military history we do know that at 18 months of age, James was taken to a flight museum where he was fascinated by the World War II planes. (and his parents claimed they never talked about it). In all probability, the additional details were unintentionally implanted by his parents and by a counsellor (Bowman) who was a firm believer in reincarnation."

So its not just us wilfully ignorant atheists who discount reincarnation, there are scientists, doctors and researchers who cannot accept the unreliable testimonies, anecdotal claims and wishful thinking of people hoping for things they want to be true, to be actual evidence of their claims.

Yossarian's picture
I need evidence. I have a

I need evidence. I have a strong moral feeling about the value of truth. I define truths as being representative of the reality we live in that must be validated by some objective process like the scientific method.

arakish's picture
Damn fine post Yossarian.

Damn fine post Yossarian. Someone after mine own heart. I have always been a skeptic and atheist who has always said, "I need objective hard empirical evidence." Otherwise, preposterous claims are dismissed.

And the Scientific Method is what I practice as a profession as a field specialist and analytical technician for Yellowstone.

rmfr

Yossarian's picture
Wow, that’s an awesome job! I

Wow, that’s an awesome job! I currently work as a department manager in a factory. I’m about to start school for quality engineering. If ya think blueprint reading probably some metrology is exciting I might be able to brag a bit lol

But I’d rather have a job in botany.

Sheldon's picture
Yossarian "I need evidence. I

Yossarian "I need evidence. I have a strong moral feeling about the value of truth. I define truths as being representative of the reality we live in that must be validated by some objective process like the scientific method."

Very good post, is your username from Heller's Catch 22? Great book, here's a quote I always loved:

"Good God, how much reverence can you have for a Supreme Being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatological mind of His when He robbed old people of the power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?'

Joseph Heller

In Spirit's picture
I needed evidence too. I used

I needed evidence too. I used to believe in the God of this world. So I sought out for evidence, direct evidence. I called out to a great spirit of LOVE and obligated it to make direct contact with me. I told it that it cannot expect me to find the God in a world of manipulation and interpretations. It made direct contact. This great Spirit of Love is unlike anything you have read or heard about. I looked at it this way...why do I have to believe what other people say about a supreme being. It's like people telling me what some guy (let's call him Tom) is all about and I am supposed to have blind faith and believe it all. Well I decided to make direct contact with Tom (analogy) myself so that I can determine this truth on my own. This daily contact/relationship has been going on for over 20 years now. Nothing from this world will ever contradict my direct experiences. this friend is always Loving, Never judgmental, and always peaceful. It has opened up my eyes to the powers each one of us has and has gifted me to use mine in ways you can and cannot imagine. I highly recommend attempting direct contact. It will put your thoughts on this at ease once and for all with never a glimpse of doubt. Oh what many marvelous experiences you will have together. Have a great day !!

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ In Spirit

@ In Spirit

Hasn't taught you much in the way of writing coherently or the art of the paragraph though.

In Spirit's picture
Old man shouts. My writing

Old man shouts. My writing skills will vary. Perhaps it was because it was very late and I was very tired or perhaps not. It's too bad that you have to live with a feeling of disappointment in my writing skills. We all choose the feelings we wish to carry with us. Do you have some interesting articulate articles you have written that you might refer to me? If you don't like my writing skills so be it. Not everyone likes the same hit song. Surprised?..... (your point taken and acknowledged). Feeling better?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ In Spirit

@ In Spirit

It's not that I do not like or even am "disappointed in", your "writing skills" even if they existed.

What I was complaining about is that you, and others of your ilk write great throbbing walls of text. Almost stream of consciousness and then expect rational forum members to confront, read, and digest it.

You ignore conventional sentence structure and paragraphs, which are designed over the centuries to make comprehension so much easier.

Look at the way Sheldon writes, or Cog or Arakish, or Cali or just about anyone on this site except the woo merchants....clear, comprehensible sentences, paragraphs for each point. Models for you all to emulate.

If you cannot communicate clearly , how is your point meant to be understood?

Regarding my articles, yes, you can find the one about the Ebionites on this site. It might help you out. If you are in Australia you would have seen my stuff on the small screen and in various publications on and off line. Was that helpful?

In Spirit's picture
Old man shouts.

Old man shouts.

You seem to contradict yourself. You have responded, thus meaning you understood my writing. Perhaps you prefer the Readers Digest version? Grade my English if you need to.

Perhaps my point is going over your head and not through it. If you were the first person Einstein would excitedly speak about his findings it would go over you head as it would go over mine. I'm no Einstein but like him I am writing about a new concept. Maybe my subject is having the same effect on you. I haven't even gotten into the nitty gritty of it yet. I am not here to speak about or even debate religious or mythical writings. I am writing about something different. Might take awhile to understand. Patience.

Now that you cleared up your credentials and the list of your favorite writers I can say that you are the first to say that about my writing skills. Either you are right or the fans of my writing skills are all wrong. Whom should I please?

From one old man to another....I have no need to send you my credentials. I know who I am. Just worry about who you are.
Have a great day !!

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ In Spirit

@ In Spirit

Now we have your paragraphs sorted so we are not confronted with a wall of text, and your sentences are at least coherent, we can examine the content.

Nope, woo is not lighter than air, so it has not gone over my head.

The Readers' Digest is where it belongs in my Dentists waiting room. I must admit I was tempted to submit your previous posts to "Life's like that" or the "Idiots who write gibberish" sections in the hope of a $20.00 reward but I dissuaded myself. I didn't want to inflict that double dose of laxative woo on a wider audience.

That you have fans for the "writing skills" you exhibited up until this last post I sincerely doubt, unless they all failed to graduate grade school, or have severe social/substance problems. By all means feed your ego and please them.

I can't blame you for not sending your 'credentials', it would be hard to make anything up to convince me you are not a complete charlatan, having read your first posts. But, hey now you are writing in comprehensible English, give it a shot why don't you?

Oh and have an absolutely superb day.

(Edit spelling and delete unnecessary word)

In Spirit's picture
Old man shouts

Old man shouts

Finally, I got a little credit from you within all the other nastiness...lol. It's a good start. It might even turn out to become an unexpected friendship.We might be able to converse about non debatable things.

As for my credentials, you haven't earned the right to read them or hear them...yet.

We are both old men. Yes you can assume that I've had my fair share of experiences in writing after all these years. Songwriting, Film Critic ,Published journal for college students on REVOLUTION. I am working on my last book: working title: There's Only One Type Of Revolution That Creates Worldwide Change. I have challenged institutions with my writings which created the changes I sought out and that is just a few.

We are both intelligent men even though you will say there is only one of those between us but I understand where that hatred comes from and it does not touch me the least.

Stop....don't want to bore you

Any artistic side to you?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ In Spirit

@ In Spirit

I have no argument with anything you have written about yourself.

However never presume to write about me or my emotions or motivations unless you know for sure. You don't have any idea whether I "hate" or not. That seems a common theist pseudo psycho-analytical accusation whenever their woo is threatened.
I have no hatred for you, I have not been bitten by a pastor, no god has "disappointed me" so lets get that shite out of the way.

Nice to see coherent writing and paragraphs...it makes your comments worth reading.

Now all you have to do is explain your particular theist belief and evidence it. Go......

In Spirit's picture
@Old man shouts

@Old man shouts

Perhaps hatred is too strong a word but let's not kid ourselves, Your way of expressing yourself to me did not quite greet me in a respectful way from the get go. You started the judgments about me, I didn't.

You keep asking for evidence. Would you like me to just write the hypotheses so you can test the experiment yourself? That's how evidence is validated or invalidated in the scientific community and in the judicial community,

But seriously, is there any artistic side to you?

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