Why don’t some atheists acknowledge Gods existence is reasonable?

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Sheldon's picture
"I believe that the Bible is

"I believe that the Bible is literally true, but not every truth in the Bible is literal. "

How do you 'objectively' determine which are literal truths and which not?

Keith Raye's picture
@AJ777 Which bible are you

@AJ777 Which bible are you talking about - the Hebrew, the Greek, the Latin, the King James, the Modern, or your own version?

AJ777's picture
ESV or NASB new and Old

ESV or NASB new and Old Testament.

LostLocke's picture
I would. But sorry, I'm not

I would. But sorry, I'm not going to watch 88 minutes for the possibility, the very slight possibility, that this guy will say something I've never heard before.

Believerbot's picture
Most of us were believers

Most of us were believers before, so the majority of the so-called proofs are no news to us...

And @Aj, by the way, adding a time-line guide with the hotspots in the video, those really really amazing arguments that you think will freak us out, would be very kind of you and it surely encourages the view and helps the debate.

CyberLN's picture
Help me understand what you

Help me understand what you mean by 'reasonable'. Also, to which god do you refer?

AJ777's picture
I personally believe in the

I personally believe in the Protestant Christian God, however when I used the term God in the title of this post I was referring to a creator of the universe that exists outside of time, space, and matter. A good definition of reasonable is that which is used in law courts. What would a reasonable person tend to believe given a set of facts with no previous biased opinions.

xenoview's picture
aj777

aj777
How do you know your god exist outside of time, space, and matter? What evidence do you have your god is real?

AJ777's picture
Those answers are in the

Those answers are in the video link if you’re interested, as someone already posted you may want to skip around to a part you find interesting. In order to create something the creator must already exist outside of the creation. The universe had a beginning at the Big Bang. Time, matter, space, came into existence at the Big Bang according to many scientists much smarter than me. Something (the universe) doesn’t come from nothing. God can be thought of simply as the something that the universe came from.

xenoview's picture
aj777

aj777
I asked you the question. I have no interest in listing to a guy trying to sell a book or get you to watch him on tv. So AJ, what evidence do you have that a god exist outside of time, space, and matter?

Thinker's picture
Science is based in logic and

Science is based in logic and experiments that have the same end result time and time again

CyberLN's picture
To follow on with your

To follow on with your example of courts of law (U.S. courts?), reasonable doubt is typically appropriate when there is no physical evidence. Physical evidence in said courts, is typically scientific in nature. If that sort of evidence was provided, then an examination of it might be in order.

Keith Raye's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

Oh, so your god's a protestant, is he? Jesus wasn't. But apart from that, you're saying that the Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Mormons and etc etc ad infinitum, are all wrong. At least we're making progress.

Algebe's picture
@AJ777: "What would a

@AJ777: "What would a reasonable person tend to believe given a set of facts with no previous biased opinions."

Is this reasonable person an educated human being who understands logic and the scientific method, or is he a prehistoric goat-herder living in a patriarchal nomadic tribal society? If you're going to appeal to the "man in the street", you'd better define him first.

Aposteriori Unum's picture
If something exists outside

If something exists outside of space and time how do you know it exists? If it doesn't exist in time it can be said to exist for no time at all. In other words it doesn't exists at all and never did. If it doesn't exist in space, where is it? How can it affect something that does exist in space? How do you know? None of this is demonstrable in the slightest because we exist in both space and time.

And since the bible doesn't say anything like "god exists outside of space and time" where are you even getting this assertion from? How did a being that has existed for zero time find the time to inspire the writing of the book in the first place?

Your claims bring up a great many questions. Since you said earlier that you have evidence I would love to see it. It would absolutely change so many things we know about quantum field theory, general relativity and so many other fields of science. I'm so excited.

Mohammad Ali 's picture
Because its not.There is no

Because its not.There is no evidence for it. We don't know the origin of the universe (or that of life) but that does not mean we need to invoke a creator who created this universe with a sense of purpose to it.Its we who did that.As for 'god' who\which has always been defined as 'all powerful,all knowing, and all loving' by almost every faith all around the world is paradoxical by nature.That's all there is to it.

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AJ777's picture
If a creator exists already

If a creator exists already how could we invent him? An example of a paradox is a married bachelor, an eternal being which has distinct attributes is not an example of a paradox.

Mohammad Ali 's picture
I was talking about the

I was talking about the definition of 'god' which includes 'it' being omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent etc.Those attributes are essentially paradoxical in nature.How can an entity be all-powerful and all-knowing at the same time?Let me give you an example.
So god knows everything that's going to happen, and also has the power to change every bit of it.But that doesn't make any sense.
If he can change an event at any given time(because he is omnipotent) then how did he know what is going to happen in the first place.
Now, if we talk about a god being only all-powerful, it is even more paradoxical.Let me give you another example.Can god create such a task that he himself cannot perform.Putting it more bluntly can god create a rock that he himself cannot lift.I am sure you have heard that one before.OK lets try another one.Can god do evil things?Well, if no,then he is not omnipotent and if yes, then I seriously doubt we should be deriving our morals from such a being.

AJ777's picture
Something not making sense to

Something not making sense to you does not make it a paradox. God exists outside of time. Can you create yourself? Evil is not a thing.

Mohammad Ali 's picture
Well it IS a paradox whether

Well it IS a paradox whether or not it makes any sense to anyone.God exists out of time?Whaaaat????How do you claim to have that knowledge?Who told you that?
Can I create myself? Don't know what you intend to convey there.But no and neither can your imaginary god.

xenoview's picture
Your god only created Adam

Your god only created Adam and Eve, if you have read your bible. Your parents created you by having sex. What proof do you have that a god exist outside of time?

xenoview's picture
aj777

aj777
What evidence do you have that a god is real? Who created religion?

AJ777's picture
A religion is simply a set of

A religion is simply a set of beliefs about the nature of reality. Your beliefs about your origin, meaning, morality, and destiny. Atheists and “religious” people have these beliefs.

xenoview's picture
aj777

aj777
I have beliefs, but those beliefs have nothing to due with me being an Atheist. I'm an Atheist because of a lack of evidence that any god exist. Did humans create religion? Did humans create the gods they worship?

Algebe's picture
@AJ777: "an eternal being

@AJ777: "an eternal being which has distinct attributes is not an example of a paradox"

Is an eternal being that changes a paradox?

AJ777's picture
Protestant Christians believe

Protestant Christians believe in an unchanging eternal God.

Algebe's picture
AJ777: "Protestant Christians

AJ777: "Protestant Christians believe in an unchanging eternal God."

But the act of creation implies change in the creator. A creator is moved by a need, a desire, or other motive to create something. That is change. So what changed in god to make it want to create a universe?

Keith Raye's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

A closed mind sees only darkness. Well, maybe the odd hallucination too, because that's what you get if you shut yourself off from light.

AJ777's picture
Keith, if god existed would

Keith, if god existed would you believe it. If not your mind is closed.

Keith Raye's picture
@Aj777

@Aj777

Hey, for once I agree with you! If your god really did exist I'd belive it. But he doesn't, so I don't.

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