Why don’t some atheists acknowledge Gods existence is reasonable?

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Algebe's picture
@AJ777: "an eternal being

@AJ777: "an eternal being which has distinct attributes is not an example of a paradox"

Is an eternal being that changes a paradox?

AJ777's picture
Protestant Christians believe

Protestant Christians believe in an unchanging eternal God.

Algebe's picture
AJ777: "Protestant Christians

AJ777: "Protestant Christians believe in an unchanging eternal God."

But the act of creation implies change in the creator. A creator is moved by a need, a desire, or other motive to create something. That is change. So what changed in god to make it want to create a universe?

Keith Raye's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

A closed mind sees only darkness. Well, maybe the odd hallucination too, because that's what you get if you shut yourself off from light.

AJ777's picture
Keith, if god existed would

Keith, if god existed would you believe it. If not your mind is closed.

Keith Raye's picture
@Aj777

@Aj777

Hey, for once I agree with you! If your god really did exist I'd belive it. But he doesn't, so I don't.

AJ777's picture
Is it possible there is

Is it possible there is information about the existence of god that you don’t yet possess?

xenoview's picture
aj777

aj777
What information do you have that a god is real? Then you have to determine which god it is that humans worship.

Keith Raye's picture
@AJ777 I think I have quite

@AJ777 I think I have quite sufficient already, thank you.

AJ777's picture
So one could say that your

So one could say that your mind is closed to new information about Gods possible existence?

Keith Raye's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

That depends on how you define 'information'.

Jeffrey Paul Bradt's picture
I watched the first 15

I watched the first 15 minutes of that video just to humor the OP, but this guy is so full of shit, hyping his book and TV show and trying to make jokes to be cool while he spouts emotional ploys, that I gave up. He did not say anything in the time I watched that I can call a meaningful fact. If he can't start speaking truth in 15 minutes, screw that, I'm not sitting through another agonizing minute of bullshit.

Jeffrey Paul Bradt's picture
My girlfriend believes in God

My girlfriend believes in God, and I wouldn't subject her to that crap in the video, simply because I know she would immediately tell me to turn it off and that this guy is full of it. She sees through bullshit very quickly. I've watched her reaction to preachers like this (and they're all the same) enough to know how she will respond. Wisely.

I'm with her. No BS. Don't try to spin your lies, just get to your point and speak the truth.

Keith Raye's picture
@Jeffery Paul Bradt

@Jeffery Paul Bradt

You won't get any truth or honesty from the theists who post on this website. They lie in their teeth so much it's wonder they don't rot in their mouths. You're right to trust your girlfriend - girls are better than boys at seeing through bullshit. How often do you see a female theist here?

mykcob4's picture
Fucking AJ777 calling

Fucking AJ777 calling atheists dishonest when his own video is about as dishonest as it gets.
There is NO fucking evidence of a god in that video, none, nada.
And YOU don't want to use the standard of acceptable evidence in a court of law. The god theory fails and falls way short of what is acceptable.
No atheist has a "closed mind". Demanding real proof is not close-minded, it's logical.

mykcob4's picture
Oh my WORD this guy is full

Oh my WORD this guy is full of shit!
1. He denigrates EDUCATION! Fuck what a turd. That is how he starts off. From there he goes downhill fast.
An hour and a half of utter rubbish and bullshit. He NEVER and I mean NEVER proves a god, not even once. And YOU AJ777 have the unmitigated gall to call atheists dishonest. SHAME on you!
Fucking ridiculous!
I am so sick and tired of theist posting YouTube videos of utter bullshit and claiming that it is something "new" that proves their god.
This fucking idiot in the video actually tells his friend that he should teach his daughter to be an "apologist." That is the epitome of spinning the truth to fit a false narrative!
That proves that this idiot is a liar, he actually wants all christians to learn to be FUCKING LIARS!
Have you noticed, that none of these fucking people that have supposedly discovered proof of a god actually do ANY FUCKING WORK? They don't present new evidence. They don't do research. All they fucking do is sit around in their underwear and devise different ways to spin shit!
That is ALL this fucking gas big did and morons like AJ777 lap it up!
AJ777 you decided to call all of us on this forum "dishonest". You are nothing but a brainwashed moronic liar if ever I saw one. You either present REAL evidence or shut the fuck up asshole.
You have evaded questions by Burnyourbible. You have tried to evade me by pretending not to know what evidence is. With what you have presented here in this video is evidence that you are brainwashed, close-minded, and programmed to be nothing more than an "apologist" which is to say a FUCKING LIAR!

AJ777's picture
It seems to me mykob that you

It seems to me mykob that you’re saying it’s wrong to denegrate someone as you denegrate me. That it’s wrong for a Christian to defend their beliefs as you defend your beliefs. Are you not an atheist apologist. Where is your evidence for the non-existence of God. How can you call him a liar if he really believes what he is saying he is just wrong. I don’t believe you are lying about your beliefs, I just think you’re wrong. Who is brainwashed or not thinking clearly? What evidence would you accept for the existence of God?

mykcob4's picture
No moron AJ777, you

No moron AJ777, you completely missed it! Fuck what a moron. I am NOT an apologist, idiot! I don't spin the truth to fit a narrative.
I don't have to PROVE that a god doesn't exist goofball, any more than I have to prove that a 10 billion square mile pink elephant hides behind the sun. I didn't make up god. I don't have to prove a god doesn't exist!
Your turd in the video is PROPOSING lying as a viable tactic. That is the proof that he is a liar!
You've asked this before but hid from actually doing it. "What evidence would you accept for the existence of God?" I've told you the answer to this question, now either do it or shut the fuck up you lying asshole!

Sheldon's picture
"Where is your evidence for

"Where is your evidence for the non-existence of God."

The inability of anyone to demonstrate any evidence for the claim is a good start, the logically fallacious arguments presented by apologists would be another. Though of course the question is absurd, you can't and don't need to 'evidence' the non-existence of something. Could you demonstrate your evidence for the non-existence of Ganesha, or Vishnu, without resorting to unevidenced counter claims for the supernatural?

AJ777's picture
Mykob, are you not defending

Mykob, are you not defending your belief that there is no God? Or are you saying you don’t know if God exists. It doesn’t seem like any amount of evidence would be sufficient for you to consider theism a reasonable worldview. There seems to be an emotional component to your atheism. You seem to be saying that it’s absolutely true God doesn’t exist, and I’m mad at him because he is immoral.

Burn Your Bible's picture
@aj777 I would say that there

@aj777 I would say that there could be A god. but your god (christian version) has not met his burden of proof...

Also i do not feel Mykcob is being emotional towards a fictional character I feel like he is angry because your so called proof teaches people to lie in order to convince weak minded people.

mykcob4's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777
It's just like you to get it completely wrong. I am not mad at a god. I don't think that there is a god, but you profess that I am mad at a fictional character. How stupid of you!
Your own video proved just how there is no evidence to prove a god so it elicits YOU to lie.

xenoview's picture
aj777

aj777
Do you believe that a god is real? What evidence do you have a god is real? Can you prove that your one is the real god?

edit

Sheldon's picture
"Mykob, are you not defending

"Mykob, are you not defending your belief that there is no God?"

Rejecting a belief is not a counter belief, that's absurd. Are you saying you hold a belief in your version of your chosen God, and then separate beliefs for every deity you disbelieve?

"It doesn’t seem like any amount of evidence would be sufficient for you to consider theism a reasonable worldview."

Can you demonstrate any?

Keith Raye's picture
@mykob4

@mykob4

My apologies for my original impression of you. I can see now why you get so pissed off.

mykcob4's picture
No worries Keith. You live in

No worries Keith. You live in the UK where people are basically EDUCATED. I live in the USA where people are "educated" by pop-culture. You can get an excellent education in the US, but you have to work at it. You have to make it a priority and block out the rhetorical bullshit. Yes, I am blunt, but I am not really angry. It is the only way to deal with these morons. It's the only thing that they understand. You can't reason with them because they don't know what reason is. I say "fuck" a lot because it makes them wake up and take notice. They live off of shock value. Hence Rush Limbaugh's popularity...undeserved.

Benjboi's picture
First comment on the forum

First comment on the forum and I'll confess I didn't watch the video but isn't what has happened above evidence of the deep misunderstanding of both sides of the argument. Atheists talk about burden of proof and then, in the main they abdicate responsibility to prove their position. I don't care what your position is if you want me to believe it then you do have a burden of proof. If you're passively expressing opinion without any intended attempt to convert or engage in dialogue then of course you don't have to prove anything but since we're all engaging in a forum designed to provoke discussion I'd suggest a position of denying there's a god does carry a burden of proof.

Which then leads me onto the other side of the argument which is even more ridiculous. Believers also have a burden of proof, in some ways more so then atheists do, but picking bible verses, pointing to hokey science, utilising isolated, out of context quotes as proof is hysterical. The fact that someone can offer up scripture as proof of god to convince those that don't believe in god is quite unbelievable.

The truth of the matter is neither side can adequately claim to be right. It is entirely possible that there is a God, it is equally possible that there isn't. We can debate all night about the Islamic or the Judeo-Christian interpretation of God and I'm pretty confident that it can be demonstrated that the texts that provide our understanding are in themselves questionable at best and outright dangerous at worst but does that automatically preclude the existence of a God? We can debate whether god is passive or active, whether it is benevolent or vengeful and we can hope to reach a common conclusion based on what we can prove. This is the main issue at stake, a complete lack of acceptance (generalisation) from both sides that it is impossible to know for certain and that based on our current understanding a completely justified conclusion beyond reasonable contestation either way is impossible.

Algebe's picture
Benjboi: "if you want me to

Benjboi: "if you want me to believe it"

I really don't care what you believe or disbelieve as far as religion is concerned. As far as I'm concerned it's all superstition propagated through smoke, and mirrors.

What concerns me most is all the harm that religions have caused in the world throughout human history. Religions in general, and Christianity in particular, have left a bloody stain of death, pain, and horror spanning centuries and continents, right down to the present day. Religious superstition has fought tooth and claw against advancement in science, technology, medicine, freedom, and human rights. That's still happening, though Christianity has currently passed the baton in the misery relay race to its partner, Islam.

Do you agree with that assessment?

Benjboi's picture
Algebra: You misunderstand

Algebra: You misunderstand what I'm saying, when I said "if you want me to believe it". I'm simply saying if an Atheist asks a believer to prove Gods existence (a typical line of questioning by Atheists usually used to draw out silly old evangelical nutters from their caves so they can be made to look ridiculous) then they cannot get precious and refuse to engage whilst hiding behind something like burden of proof if the same is asked of them.

I do love a good fight algebra but I'm afraid your second paragraph assessment of religion is pretty much perfect so I'm going ot have to doff my cap and back down from confrontation on that one. I'd only add that it's not really the religion but the person that commits the oppression using religion as a front for their own bigotry. However since most religions seem to make the case for god, the church and the individual being one inseparable being it's a very hard sell to try to absolve religion of it's past present and future atrocities under something as lazy as abdication of responsibility.

Algebe's picture
@Benjboi "engage whilst

@Benjboi "engage whilst hiding behind something like burden of proof"

Only someone who needs to prove something shoulders a burden of proof. The various Christians who come to this forum seek to convince atheists that their religions are true, so they carry the burden of proof. As an atheist, I literally have nothing to prove.

"it's not really the religion but the person that commits the oppression using religion"

In response to that I'd say that a religion is a barrel of gunpowder, a hand-grenade, a nuclear weapon. Good people would never unleash that power, but the innate potential for evil will always be there, and it will be irresistable to a certain type of people. And then, inevitably, you'll have a grand inquisitor or an Islamist terrorist.

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