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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@Humble Thinker
For starters, I want to make it clear that I believe the idea of a "soul" as most Christians employ it is fairly a bunch of nonsense. Something to keep in mind during what follows...
Re: "Jesus, sounds like you have had a few dogs die under your command. Sorry, not my fault."
Can't speak for anybody else, but I know I have had many dogs and other pets in my life that I have lost. One pup in particular just a little less than a year ago. And you know what?... Many (most) of those animals were FAR better "souls" than many people I have encountered in my life. The little fella I lost last year was like a child to me and my wife. He had his very own unique personality, and (again) he displayed more emotions and intelligence than a few people I have known. I loved that little dog more than I have loved some of my own family members, and I am not ashamed to admit that. To this very day I still grieve over that little guy to some degree. Therefore, IF your particular version (out of the several thousand other versions) of the Christian god truly did exist and it decreed that one of the creatures IT made had no "soul" and did not deserve a special place in your fantasy-land heaven, then I would have to say that particular god is a full-blown piece of shit prick. Thankfully, however, I do not believe in any of that nonsense.
Re: "But our faith does say we have that which animals do not."
Who is this "our" in "our faith"??? You DO realize, I hope, that your particular sect/denomination doesn't quite hold a monopoly on the "truth" of what god does or does not think? It still amazes me that you all read from pretty much the same bible, yet there are still thousands of different interpretations and beliefs about god all stemming from the same book. Heck, I've even known people in the SAME CHURCH who cannot agree on various passages in that fairy tale book. Ever heard of the movie "All Dogs Go To Heaven"? Think maybe that could have been inspired by some Christian sect different from your own who possibly believe animals get a free pass? Therefore, just a suggestion, but you might want to revise your statement to specify to which faith you are referring.
Re: "You do realize, animals were domesticated for OUR benefit. Food, protection. I would actually propose that YOU, sir, are a slaveowner."
Seriously???.... *jaw on floor*.... You are really comparing having and caring for a pet to owning a human slave???.... Wow.... Alrighty then... Obviously, you totally missed the point, though (or intentionally avoided it). Read much history? Just so happens the wife and I were listening to a discussion about this very subject recently. And just like Old Man mentioned, the reason the churches and the good "Christians" of those days were so easily able to justify owning/torturing their slaves was because The Church decreed that "black people" had no souls and - as a result - were not "true" humans. Therefore, they were fair game to be treated any ol' way the master cared to treat them. Thankfully, somewhere along the way over a period of a few hundred years, society (in general) finally came to its senses and determined that was a big crock of pathetic bullshit. Sooooo... if you could, please explain how that in any way, shape, or form is even remotely similar to owning and caring for a pet dog or cat?
Re: "Would you be suggesting that Homo Sapiens are NOT the greatest species existing today?"
If you ever catch yourself out in the middle of the ocean floating around in nothing but a life preserver and a great white shark starts nosing around eyeballing you as its next meal, perhaps you should explain to it you are a Homo Sapien. The greatest species existing today. No doubt that will intimidate the shark enough to have it avoid eating you.
Re: "P.S. If you get offended by my comment that dogs don't have souls, that's your problem, not mine. I'm not being a dick : )"
How could I or any atheist possibly be offended by that, when most of the atheists I know do not even believe we humans have a soul??? Seems rather ludicrous to me. And you are not being a dick for saying dogs do not have souls. What you ARE doing, however, is asserting that YOUR particular version of god decrees that the animals HE supposedly made that now give Man so much comfort and companionship are not worthy of a nice "afterlife". And you are just waaaaay too eager and willing to buy into it. Even worse (in my opinion), you are still oh-so willing and HAPPY to worship and defend such an entity. But, hey, whatever floats your boat, man. No skin off my nose one way or the other. So, just out of curiosity, what exactly do YOU believe happens to all of the beloved pets that have died over the centuries?
(Edited for a typo.)
@ TM
Nice one. I wish I had been half as eloquent but I had a red mist obscuring my keyboard. 1000 agrees to you sir. Especially that last paragraph.
@tinman
It’s a nice sentiment, indeed. I am capable of empathy you know, even if some would suggest otherwise. And I can’t help but feel you are being a bit ‘religious’ in your description of your love of animals.
You said you’ve had a few dogs pass who “were far better souls than some people you know”. I hate to tell ya bud, you need to find new friends. If your standard of being ‘a better soul’ is the ignorance of a dog, then you might do well to become a Christian, eh?
To the slave bit...please explain how domesticated animals are not slaves. Yes, even to the same capacity that humans were slaves. Please provide evidence that they are unequal. Please provide evidence that black humans are any different than dogs. Please provide evidence that white humans are better than dogs.
To the rest. Why does it bother you that dogs don’t go to heaven? Do you think we are no better than dogs? Is it immoral to believe that we are ‘more’than dogs?
@HT
*chuckling to self in amusement*.... I do find it interesting (but not altogether surprising) how you managed to totally avoid answering/addressing a couple of questions I posed and a couple of rather pertinent remarks I made. Ya know, for what it is worth, HT, you are one of the very few theists here that I have actually started to like having around. Even though I strongly disagree with much (most) of what you may say/believe, you have at least been somewhat more "reasonable" than most we get, and you have even started a few interesting discussions. They make me think, and therefore help me learn. Plus, you are articulate and have a small bit of a sense of humor. That being said, though, if you keep avoiding direct questions and evading remarks that may make you "uncomfortable", then I might be forced to start ranking you with the likes of our dear friend AJ777. And I would rather not do that, to be honest. We already get enough like him around here as it is. Anyway, to address your response to my post. Unlike you, I will give you the courtesy of answering your questions and commenting on your remarks....
Re: "And I can’t help but feel you are being a bit ‘religious’ in your description of your love of animals."
Religious????.... *shaking head in disagreement*... Nope. Not even close. Emotional? Yes. Absolutely. Which reminds me.... Fascinating to me how many (most) theists seem to mistake strong emotional experiences for some type of "religious" or "heavenly inspired" event. Granted, I am no professional psychiatrist by any means, but one has to admit that is one of those things that make you go, "Hmmmmmmm...."... *scratching chin*...
Re: "You said you’ve had a few dogs pass who “were far better souls than some people you know”. I hate to tell ya bud, you need to find new friends."
Well, for starters, you obviously missed the quotation marks I had around "souls". Meaning I was using that particular word sarcastically. No worries, though. I understand those tiny little marks are sometimes hard to see. As for my needing new friends, I will be the absolute FIRST to admit I do not have very many friends. Truth be told, I am something of a "recluse". Aside from the moments I spend with my wife (which is every single moment I possibly can), I actually prefer to be alone most of the time. I'm not much of a "people person", in other words. Even so, what few friends I DO have are very good friends indeed, even if long periods of time go by without our seeing each other. But, then again, I prefer quality over quantity. Besides, it is entirely possible that I am the guy people do not want to be around. Who's to say? For all you know, it could be ME who is the asshole.... "shrugging shoulders*... And I certainly can be exactly that sometimes. The way I see it, though, if somebody cannot handle who I am for what I am, then I prefer not to have them around anyway.
Re: "If your standard of being ‘a better soul’ is the ignorance of a dog, then you might do well to become a Christian, eh?"
ROFLMAO.... Oh, dear me!!!.... *trying to catch breath*.... Wow-wow-wow-wow-wow!.... *trying to stop laughing*.... Oh, lawdy! Help me, baby Jesus!.... *wiping tears from eyes*.... *gasping for breath*.... Hold on... give me a sec.... *deeeeep breath*.... *exhaling slowly*.... *gradually starting to breathe normally*..... Holy hell, dude! Not fair! Give a guy some warning next time!..... *wiping sweat from forehead*... Phew!.... *still shaking head in amusement*.... Okay, thanks, I really needed a good laugh like that. So, uh, yeah. About "becoming a Christian". Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt. Never made any sense to me when I was a little kid. Makes even LESS sense to me now that I am an adult and much more educated and experienced. What's your point? And as for my "standard of being ‘a better soul’ is the ignorance of a dog"? Oh-me-oh-my.... Buddy, I have known many "Christians" in my life that I would not use to wipe the ASS of many animals I have ever owned.... *still shaking head in amusement*... *trying to not start laughing again*.....
Re: "To the slave bit..."
Dude... Really?... *shaking head in bewildered disbelief*.... *staring with puzzled look on face*.... I, er-uh... Honestly, I've got nuthin'.... Oh, dear, that is disturbing....
Re: "Why does it bother you that dogs don’t go to heaven?"
You no read so very good, do you?... *(again) shaking head in amusement*... What, exactly, have I said at any time that makes you think I believe in heaven? (To answer that question for you... NOTHING.) Therefore, how do you propose that it "bothers me" that dogs (or cats or fish or elephants or ants, flies, roaches, Santa's reindeer, Howard the Duck, etc...) do not go to heaven??? What you obviously misunderstood (or purposely chose to misinterpret) is that I said IF your particular god exists, then I personally believe it would be a total douche for condemning innocent creatures IT made by not allowing them a nice afterlife of some sort. Fairly fucked up thing to do, in my opinion. Which is why I am very happy I do not believe in any of that nonsense. My little furry friend is dead. Gone. Not coming back. Along with countless friends and family I have lost over the years. I will not be seeing him or any of the others in any afterlife. They will remain "alive" only as long as I and others still alive hold them in our memories. And when the day comes that I take my last breath, I will be dead. Gone. Not coming back. And I will remain "alive" only as long as there are those around who keep me in their memories. Doesn't get much more simple than that, pal. That is why I do my best to make every day I do have HERE and NOW count in as many ways as I can. The concept of a "heaven" or "hell" is a total non-issue for me.
@Tin Man
I appreciate the warm feelings expressed in your first paragraph. I want you to understand, I do not dodge any of your questions with malicious intent. Your posts, although fruitful, are dense and lengthy. It would take me all day to reply to every sentence that ends with a question mark. And where would that get me? Then I wouldn't have any time to attack the rather salty members of this board. Also, I am at work, so I don't have time to do much research on topics that I don't have a good answer to. So my point is, I try to address the most pertinent and quick line items at the expense of the others. If there is a question that you feel I MUST answer, please note that in the response and I will do my best. Fair?
@ Tin-Man
I can fully understand about the "little one." My cat I had for just over 20 years died last year, just three days after his birthday on 21 June (died 24 June). There are many mornings I wake up and my first thought is, "I got to feed OJ." And I actually walk to the pantry and start looking for the canned cat food (I gave him a can of Fancy Feast every morning), then I realize he is longer here. Even through the day I'll think I have to give OJ his dry food at lunch and/or supper. This does not happen every day, but often enough to tell me...
Gads, I miss him so much... No words.
rmfr
@Arakish
I totally know what you mean. We had out little routines with Lasher. Took me many weeks to get past the automatic impulses associated with them. Even now it is sometimes difficult for me to do certain little things that remind me of him...... Damn.... Yeah, like you said.... No words...
@ TM, Arakish, Algebe
Yep. those routines. When I was writing full time my little Jack Russell x Chihuahua, 'Elf', would insist I take a break by bringing me her lead or plonking herself on my lap and place both front paws on the keyboard while licking my chin. This invariably had the desired effect of a walk around the block, or a ride on my trike to the park. She managed to time it so it was when I was 'blocked' or had been working too long. I always used to run the dialogue or plot line I was writing past here as we walked and sniffed...and bugger me I found meself chatting to her the other day as I took my (now solitary) evening walk. She has been dead two years now....
Yeh we miss them.
Captain Cat has his own routines for ensuring my good behaviour...
@Tin-man: The little fella I lost last year
I grieve with you, Tin-Man. Their lives are so short. The worst is when you have to make that final decision for them because you can see they've started to suffer. The last time I did that was a 17-year-old Jack Russell 10 years ago. I swore I'd never have another dog, but here we are again with a two-year-old Maltese maniac.
And she has a sole. It used to be attached to my left shoe.
And BTW, when a Jack Russell smiles at you, it isn't being friendly.
@Algebe
Thanks, my friend. Lasher was a Shih Tzu. He loved going on car rides and hanging his head out the window. And during the time my stepdaughter still lived with us, he had a habit of going into her room and stealing whatever undergarments she might have left lying about. Many a time I would walk down the hallway and have to pick up a pair of panties and toss them back into her bedroom... lol... And then Lasher would walk around the corner and look at me like, "Hey, man! That was rude! I got those fair and square!"... Dammit, I miss that little guy.
HumbleThinker: Would you be suggesting that Homo Sapiens are NOT the greatest species existing today?
I'd suggest that we differ from the other animals on this planet in degree, not in quality. We are not separate from the animals, but part of a continuum with them.
Until someone can provide evidence for the existence of a soul separate from the physical processes of the brain, I'll continue to see it as a spurious notion dreamed up to promote theist religions.
Fair enough.
@Humblethinker: the earliest hominids that we are aware of engaged in 'ritualistic' behavior
Hominids include gorillas and chimps, as well as humans. Apart from humans, I don't any of the other great apes were silly enough to develop religions.
If you're talking about the genus Homo, the first in that line was probably Homo habilis from about 2.5 million years ago, but they didn't go to church much. The first known signs of religious practices (burials) date from the time of Heidelberg man, probably around 3-4,00,000 years ago. Neanderthals also buried their dead with some form of ceremonial. But it took the big heads and killer instincts of Homo sapiens to dream up something as whacky and dangerous as theist religions.
So maybe you'd like to revise your claim.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I won't be revising anything. I agree with everything you just said. Doesn't invalidate my claim.
HumbleThinker -
Only pure arrogance allows you to make a statement like this. This is you claiming to know what I feel - claiming to know my innermost thoughts. Well, newsflash, you don't. This doesn't even hold a single flicker of truth. Let's say that God someday shows up - if I got the chance, the first thing I'd say is "You know that from all the supposed evidence that I heard and read, I pretty much had no choice but to come to the conclusion that you're a colossal dickhead, right? Given that, is there anything you want to demonstrate to me now that can prove you're not?", and if He says something along the lines of "I don't do requests." My reply will surely be: "Dickhead it is then." and then I will walk away. Point being - if anything, I appeal to all that is good in the world in the hope that your God DOES NOT EXIST. Why in the world would I want a colossal dickhead to exist? Why? Why would you ever think I would want that or hope for it, or hope to know that being or "yearn" for it (now I am laughing - "yearn" - what a damn joke).
And to prove that you can only make your ridiculous statement through arrogance, I'll pose the exact same thing back at you (something that I have rarely seen atheists do, mind you, and didn't even approve of the tactic when they did it):
Mankind knows in their heart of hearts (hahahaha... I felt I just had to pull that horrid phrasing in here) that God does not exist. You may not admit it to yourself, but all of mankind is aware.
How do you feel about my stating that? It carries just as much weight as your bald assertion. it is formulated pretty much the same way, and its claim to "truth" is just as good as yours, sitting at a big, fat zero. The only difference is... I didn't mean it. But you did. Sad, isn't it?
@AM
I wouldn't consider you arrogant, I would just shake my head and pray for you : )
@HumbleThinker -
You're replying to my statement out of context. I'd like you to at least consider what you would feel if an atheist actually stated, with intent and sincerity, that they felt it true/factual that all of mankind secretly knows that God does not exist. Think about it seriously, and tell me what you would think of that person.
I'll even admit that an atheist asserting that would be arrogant, and not working within the bounds of reason. And I feel the same holds for your ridiculous assertion that all mankind "knows God" or "yearns for God." I am shaking my head and doing the atheist equivalent of "praying for you" (that is, simply hoping that, one day, you'll lose your irrationality - proved by your ability to make a statement like this encompassing all mankind) because of your assertion. This kind of statement is proof positive that you have no idea how to maintain rationality. Like so many others, your intellect has lost its braking mechanisms and is off the track. Maybe some day you'll realize this. Again... I am saying an atheist "prayer" for you. Get better man.
weird story but CAR RELATED. Saturday, my son was driving my car and we came to a stop, light turns green, guy runs the red and crashes into us. Luckily we are okay but police officer said he wasn't there and put down "unknown" for who's fault it was, the guy who ran the red light LIED.
I went to a used car lot across the street and they HAD SECURITY FOOTAGE of the car crash! I work in video and I shot the footage off the security monitor with my camera, took the footage to the police and met with the original officer who wrote the report and CHANGED THE REPORT! Years of reading detective novels, mixed with determination and my profession as a videographer and just dumb luck that I was able to get this resolved.
My wife said she had been praying all day and it was an ACT OF GOD. Really took the wind out of my sails. I'm really sure god was involved with the invention of security cameras, video cameras, cars and traffic lights.
Good detective work there, well done. I am more surprised that you have a wife that thinks such things, since you are an atheist. That must lead to quite a lot of arguments?
Ha! Yes, it's interesting between the two of us and there have been a couple of arguments over the years. Love is the most important thing though and she is a sweetheart. I wish more "Christians" were like her. She hates how the whole idea has been corrupted by Right.
@Time Traveler
It can't be an act of god unless you are god.
@Time Traveler: it was an ACT OF GOD.
"Act of god" is used in insurance policies and contracts to mean an event for which nobody is responsible. I rather like the phrase, because it suggests that god is a nobody, just a pronoun for bad luck or accidents. You'd certainly never use "act of god" to describe a fortunate event.
Tornado misses a house, "It's a miracle!!!" (It's literally not, it doesn't require the suspension of the laws of nature)
Tornado hits their house, "the Lord works in mysterious ways"
Yeah?... Well, He must be a total smegging twat!
HumbleThinker: "Dogs do not have souls, and therefore do not go to heaven (sorry)."
Can you prove this hypothesis? Can you prove the hypothesis that humans have souls?
And do NOT use your bullshit religion to answer. I want OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE obtained through the Scientific Method. Arakish's Razor: NO EVIDENCE = NO EXISTENCE. The same goes for your God Hypothesis.
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui negat.
rmfr
PS —
The Ten Razors:
You forgot Gillette's Razor: Men are toxic.
shiningone, I don’t get it. What does it mean
There is currently a big stink around the internet about Gillette's new Ad. Basically because it is attacking toxic masculinity. It's being called the years worst marketing move. Sales have dropped rapidly and people have been making satirical versions of it etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0
Only problem is that Gillette's sales have been dropping drastically anyway because of the "less expensive yet just as good" razors we can get online. Me for one, I have stopped shaving several months ago. I have always HATED shaving ever since I was forced to start shaving when I was 13 years old and because of the religious BULLSHIT rules in public schools.
In fact, I have stopped cutting any of my hair. Reason, my beard grows so fast I have shave twice a day. My head hair grows so damned fast I have to trim ever 15-20 days to keep it short. Now, I am of the age, "Fuck you world! I am letting it all grow out. If you don't like the way it looks, then don't look dumb ass."
However, I do like the message the commercial offers. Laugh at me all you want. That just shows you don't have any comprehension or understanding.
rmfr
lol
@ HumbleThinker
One a further note. I have to completely agree with Old Man, if you don't want your religion attacked, then don't be such a dick about it.
Additionally, YOU are the one who came here. Do you honestly expect everyone to respect your beliefs? Fuck NO! As My Fourth Commandment of Humanity states:
Notice is says nothing about respecting your beliefs. Why must all you Religious Absolutists believe religion is an ideology that is implicitly and explicitly protected from any and all criticism from both within and without. Why should any ideology, especially religion, be so privileged? Can you not see how disastrous this way of thinking can be, and is?
There is no philosophical ideology more divisive than religion. Religion does nothing but pervert, demoralize, subvert, and bribe all persons with the belief that it possesses the one and only truth. I believe religion is, and has always been, tremendously harmful to Humanity. I believe that religions, and their way of thinking, and their theological disagreements, have created the greatest violence, destruction, injury, death, bigotry, harm, immorality, intolerance, wickedness, and abuse to the human species than any other cause. The main problem is not religious fundamentalism, but the fundamentals of religion. Religion has NO place in a civilized society.
You can argue that it is the extremists (like you are trying to prove you are), not the doctrine. All this says to me is that you have never truly read the various doctrines. It is both. Extremists might be using it as an excuse, but it is an excuse that the religious texts readily provide. I firmly believe, and shall take this belief to my grave, that the human species would have been much better off had there NEVER been ANY form of religion. EVER!
Also for these reasons, I shall rip your religious thoughts apart. And if you find it offensive… Whaaa!
rmfr
rmfr
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