“You Can’t Prove A Negative.”

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Burn Your Bible's picture
See this is what I love about

See this is what I love about thinking!!!! We can have a difference of views yet still we can talk between one another. This is the issue I feel with theists, once you say something that will contradict my understanding of my holy book you are the enemy. As atheists we have no preconceived notions!

Aposteriori Unum's picture
Because most atheists value

Because most atheists value truth and most theists value faith. When truth conflicts with faith, watch out.

Burn Your Bible's picture
@aposteriori unum

@aposteriori unum

Very true and the fact that people cannot see through this is astonishing! I would never physically harm you for your beliefs. Yet why do you (not you) tell me me and my family will burn in hell? Again I ask theists if I care and love others and I treat people as equals why would any god want me to burn in hell? If a belief and fear of god is all it takes is that really something we would want to follow?

Aposteriori Unum's picture
@burn your bible

@burn your bible

Victims in abusive relationships will often make excuses and even defend their abuser. They would come to believe that it is their fault that they are getting abused. "My husband is a good man, he's was trying to teach me. It's my fault and I deserve to be punished. "Now replace husband and man with god. See what you get.

Just saying. It's weird.

Burn Your Bible's picture
I agree but don't we see that

I agree but don't we see that as a psychological disorder???

AJ777's picture
At least no preconceived

At least no preconceived notions beyond the view that atheists have no preconceived notions.

Burn Your Bible's picture
See this is what I love about

See this is what I love about thinking!!!! We can have a difference of views yet still we can talk between one another. This is the issue I feel with theists, once you say something that will contradict my understanding of my holy book you are the enemy. As atheists we have no preconceived notions!

chimp3's picture
Lawrence Krauss debates

Lawrence Krauss debates philosophers and explains why philosophy is no longer important to scientists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9K8prW-G1s

Keith Raye's picture
I'll get back to you later

I'll get back to you later today Chimp3, if that's ok with you. Because I live alone I have lots of things to do, like shopping, preparing meals and doing the laundry. I don't want you to think I've lost interest in our discussion. In the meantime, if you disagree with the definition of philosophy that I began this discussion with, please give me your own definition. Also, if you dispute that ideas, theories and philosophical propositions are synonymous, please tell me why you do.

chimp3's picture
Going to work myself. As far

Going to work myself. As far as ideas and theories being synonymous I think I replied to that previously.

Keith Raye's picture
@Chimp3

@Chimp3

A theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalising thinking, or the results of such thinking. With respect, I don't see any difference between that and philosophy. Certainly, some philosophers are more rational than others, but you have to allow for the fact that many of them saw the world through a very small keyhole. The difference between them and us is not that we are more intelligent that they were, but that because of scientific and technical advances, our keyholes are bigger.

It just occurred to me that you might be confusing theory with theorem. The definition of theorem is:
a general proposition not self-evident but proved by a chain of reasoning; a truth established by means of accepted truths.

If you were to say that an idea, or philosophical postulation, isn't a theorem, we would have no argument.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Theories are tested against

Theories are tested against reality, philosophy is tested by what sounds better.

The Interlocutor's picture
Nyarlathotep states:

Nyarlathotep states:

"Theories are tested against reality, philosophy is tested by what sounds better."

Nyarlathotep does not see the irony that his statement is a philosophical statement (unfortunately it does not sound any better than other philosophical statements :) ).

P.S. I would add you seem to be oblivious to what philosophy actually is. In its widest sense philosophy encompasses everything, any where there is belief about reality or interpretation in thought etc... that is philosophy. That is why whatever you study in academia if you excel at it you get a PhD; the 'Ph' stands for 'philosophy.' Every study is the philosophy of something. Until this last century scientists were called 'natural philosophers.'

Also, analytic philosophy has nothing to do with what 'sounds better.' *shakes head in disbelief*

Nyarlathotep's picture
Ah yes, the idea that

Ah yes, the idea that everything is philosophy. Great, except that makes the word meaningless.
------------------------------------------------------

The Interlocutor - That is why whatever you study in academia if you excel at it you get a PhD; the 'Ph' stands for 'philosophy.'

Yeah, the B in a BSc degree stands for "bachelor"; should I tell my wife that we aren't married because of that?

The Interlocutor's picture
I said philosophy taken at

I said philosophy taken at its widest. And no, it is not meaningless, since philosophy includes the study of reality and the interpretation of a thing (including what knowledge and rational justification are) so of course it is going to be foundational to all other disciplines (by the very nature of the case).

Philosophy is so foundational that you can't argue against it, as any statement/argument against philosophy will be by definition a philosophical statement/argument.

Nyarlathotep's picture
The Interlocutor - I said

The Interlocutor - I said philosophy taken at its widest....Philosophy is so foundational that you can't argue against it, as any statement/argument against philosophy will be by definition a philosophical statement/argument.

Again, in your efforts to defend it from criticism, you have broadened it to be all encompassing, making it word meaningless in the process.

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