I hope you can forgive me for brief venting of sorts, but I'd appreciate the input of individuals who as close to being like minded as myself, in particular in regards to our views on theism in general.
So, as I may have mentioned in the past, I lost my father to suicide in January.
Since then I re-split my knee ligaments (patella and ACL, luckily only slightly) and then last month contracted either my first bout of flu in my lifetime or perhaps Covid19, unfortunately the UK is not testing for the later publically so I cannot confirm.
But since then I have received messages such as "hes in a better place" "hes in heaven" "hes with his family that have passed"
People saying theyll pray for him, myself and my family.
And similar when I was ill.
This even goes far as my own mother who is very aware of my non belief.
It's really starting to irritate, not only because i dont believe and I've always been very clear about it (albeit, actually very politely!), but also because I find it utterly disrespectful...
I mean how would believers feel if I turned up at a church funeral and learned in saying, "all the best but theres no such thing as god!"
I'm now in a quandary, do I speak to individuals politely? Do I say make a social media message on a certain platform where lost are friends with me on, or should I just let it slide and take it with a pinch of salt?
What are your thoughts?
Sometimes it just makes me so frustrated, othertimes i just cannot be bothered to have the conversation or confrontation.
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@Randomhero1982
This is not necessarily the correct thought, but it helps me:
I pity them. Caught up in an obvious lie, that is easy to see from the outside, but very difficult to spot from within. Sometimes I am a bit jealous, ignorance is a bliss. But then I realize knowledge is power.
Easiest example is covid-19 itself. I could be ignorant and happy and assume an invisible sky daddy will protect me because "I so strongly believe in it." Then, (depending on how arrogant I would be in this scenario,) likely get the virus at one point in the next year or so. I may be lucky and get mostly asymptomatic, I may not. And maybe I can even be so ignorant that when those I live with/regularly interact with get sick and possibly die, not even realize I, in my hubris, is the one that sickened/killed them due to my negligence because I believe in some completely unevidenced sky daddy idea, just like a kid thinks their blanket will protect them from monsters under the bed.
Me personally I rather use the knowledge I have and prevent that sort of scenario from happening in the first place, by not assuming I have some invisible sky daddy idea protecting me. And making real steps that reduces the chances to near zero as I possibly can. With real stuff, just like how there is ZERO detected cases (let alone deaths) in all of the continent of Antarctica. (Isolation works! Prayer does not!)
It is fucking frustrating.
But never forget what they say comes from a good place, they are attempting to say words that comfort. The problem is that they have been conditioned for years, decades, into saying such nonsense. It is the nicest thing they are capable of saying.
They are not bad people, they are the victims of a con, one they are not aware of, while you see it.
A year ago my dearest and closet friend died, and I was heavily involved in the funeral preparations and gave the eulogy. My departed friend's brother had the power of attorney, and although I know with 100% certainty none of them went to church or was religious, he optioned to have a roman catholic priest involved, naturally for a few hundred dollars more. As I sat there with his brother and he decided on the sky pilot, I just kept my mouth shut, it was not my decision to make.
And during the funeral, as I sat there in the front row, the priest did his spiel, talking about this and that, the usual religious propaganda. Inside I was seething. I was not going to disrupt the proceedings, I knew my role, and kept to what I was obligated to do.
How do I deal with this crap? I have learned to hold my anger and mouth, because I understand that later on it will all dissipate.
I do not hate the people who say such nonsense, I hate the source of the problem, organized religion.
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When someone sneezes, someone responds with "bless you". It is a conditioned response, like a well trained dog.
Random... sorry to hear about your dad.
What meaning do you put into conversation and how valuable are the theists in your life?
Say, they’re valuable and you don’t want to lose them... so if you get "hes in a better place" OR " "hes with his family that have passed" I could roll with it (eg self think ... he’s dead, so he’s not in any sort of “pain” or yup, he’s with family that’s dead...I couldn’t go with the heaven comment, but you get the idea).
How you word things or “self think” are important.
Thank you Whitefire13, I appreciate your kind words.
And perhaps I should have explained a bit more but was a little concerned with 'going on' too much.
So, the main people doing this are my mother, one of my sisters, a few of my aunts, a cousin and a few acquaintances.
It tends to happen mostly when I post a picture up on facebook of my father, or say myself with him or my dad with my young children.
I never post any words with these pictures, they are purely for my own grieving process and as they will stay there and pop up in future 'memory' posts, which I'm sure we all know... pops up posts and images from that particular day on previous days.
This way I will always be able to remember and show my boys when they're older if say the photos etc were to get lost.
That’s an awesome idea. I’ve thought about my Facebook too - that one day it’ll be my mark, my “memorial”.
Your family is going to think and process this however they want. My boys regular get exposed to JWs (make grandma happy to think she has a chance to save them). My mom does love them and I always tell my guys to appreciate her.
I tend to do a half-assed smiles. Recent text from my mom asking me if I realize we’re in the last of the last of the Last Days ... sent back a smiley face with a thumbs up!
When my dad died I was surprised at the “physical pain” I felt. Didn’t like the man. Didn’t respect him either - but fuck me, he was my dad and I was surprised by what I experienced when he died.
Hey Random,
I try to live my life with conviction. I agree with David, defining sensitive situations with tempered conviction, but when asked, I am an atheist...and among people that know me, without hesitation. Except me they way I am...if you don't, that's your problem.
My condolences about your dad
It took me a long time after questioning the afterlife to let me think about what will happen when my grandma dies. She raised me from six weeks old and one of the only perks of heaven I could ever think of was getting to be with her forever while she was young and healthy.
She is still going but she's 82 and I know I don't have long. I don't think she goes anywhere now, and I know it will hurt when I heard those words, she's in a better place.
Maybe when someone says this you can respond with something neutral such as, he isn't suffering now, or I'm glad he isn't in pain.
@Randomhero: RE: "but also because I find it utterly disrespectful..."
Consider the fact that they have no idea what to say. They have never looked close enough at life or death to offer any sort of depth on the subject.
Also understand that feelings of anger are a part of the grieving process. Kuba Ross cites the stages of death as Denial. Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. They do not happen in any given order and can overlap. They happen to people who are dying as well as people close to those who have died.
Take care of yourself first. Only then will you have the energy and endurance to deal with the ignorance and inane assertions of the religious. Make sure when you are angry that you are angry at the right person, for the right reason, to the right degree, and that it is not just a part of your own emotional instability. (Choose your battles wisely.) You can't fix ignorance.
@Randomhero1982
so sorry for your loss. and hope you're coping a bit better over time.
I remember when my grandpa died and many friends who know I am atheist told me this same "better place" nonsense. and sometimes the even more annoying "only god is immortal" that's popular in Islam. (FFS how don't ppl find this one offensive even when they're religious...)
The usually peaceful me started getting really aggressive. even physically sometimes. towards them. as you said:
"because I find it utterly disrespectful"
but after some time and when I got better a bit I realized it's just that those ppl never knew an atheist before. everything they say is basically hard-wired in them and they don't put any thought into it.
there is pretty much a general pool of default 4-5 Condolences in Egypt. luckily one of them isn't religious so I tend to use it. it roughly translates to "their life continues in yours" which is kinda comforting tbh cuz, yeah, what we leave behind is our influence on people.
Thank you for your messages everyone, I think I was clouded by frustration when posting, but I do now fully see your points.
I still get the same messages, "I hope your safe, I'll pray for you!" But I'm taking it with a pinch of salt.
I just still find it very disrespectful personally, but will get there.
My father had a heart attack last year, while i have never had an issue with the idea of my own death i hit a major crisis when i suddenly understood my parents are also mortal.
Then in december, a close family friend who i called uncle chose to let himself die instead of living in pain on dialysis.
Someone here suggested to me checking out the youtube channel ask a mortician.
I have honestly found great comfort from that channel.
As for my family, my dad is a die hard christian who refuses to believe i am an atheist.
I have learned to smile and nod, on facebook if i post a picture for the sake of memory i post it for myself only so it isnt public.
it is an option in one of the drop down lists.
it is ok to mourn, it is ok to cry. it is ok to feel.
even if what you feel is anger at the ignorance of theists scripted remarks.
i hope you are able to move past the pain of loss, but never completely. because if the pain vanished, that means the memories have as well.
i wish you the best of luck.