Hey all, it's me again. Today I was at work pricing donated books as usual, flipping through pages to check for money, and I looked over some apologist bs about all the witnesses to the resaurection blah blah, and it got me thinking.
I know the story. I know the arguments against it. I know the counter arguments for it and on and on...and really this is what so many of my issues come down to. If we can reallt counter the bible and religion and resaurection so totally, how do they keep coming up with arguments? Is their confirmation bias reallt that strong? Is there enough holes in our history for them to be able to patch in the bible without us being able to prove otherwise? Is it just so deeply in rained a beliefe?
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@Mikhael: They don't keep coming up with arguments. They have been using the very same arguments for years. They merely rehash old arguments and give them a new face using the latest scientific terms. All you really need do is recognize the fallacy being used to debunk any of them. I can't count the number of ways Pascal's Wager or the Cosmological arguments have been posed. Every apologist on the site right now is a presuppositionalist. Notice that none of them are arguing for the existence of their god. They are talking about consciousness, belief, first causes, mind, or anything and everything to avoid the simple question; "What valid evidence do you have for the existence of your god?"
This definately makes sense for the lofty cosmic why are we here arguments. They're getting more and more abstract and new age to reflect the current culture where everyone talks about their vibes and Kharma. Though I wonder more about historical and scientific arguments. Someone going out, supposedly a learned person, assuming a historical jesus, assuming the historical use of the bible. Things like debates on the ressurection, to cite my spark example, the accounts of it, the early days of christianity. If we know what happened (religious fervor, bronze age superstition, lies, mistakes, stories that get out of hand) why do some insist there is so much evidence otherwise ?
@Mikhael: This is theistic cognitive dissonance.
Yes, I can definitely see that. It seems they often don't see the flaws in thsirbown arguments.
I once read an apologist book for like, tweens, and it gave 1 or 2 page answers to objections. They were not good answers. To "proving Jesus wasn't just a teacher " it soaked out a little skit where a demon said he was gonna make humans believe Jesus wasn't god. And other demons said to him, "butbif course he is god! Humans have the book and they can see Jesus SAID he was god!"
That was the whole apology. Jesus is god cause the bible says. This same book also said there are no errors in the bible, only different perspectives and what APPEAR to be errors. No further answer at all.
To "proving Jesus wasn't just a teacher" A harebrained topic to approach. "Begging the Question Fallacy." It begins with Jesus and ends with Jesus. It's like saying "Prove your finger isn't a digit." First prove Jesus existed. Next prove he could really do magic. Finally prove he was this God thing people want him to be.
RE: "Humans have the book and they can see Jesus SAID he was god!"
Jesus is god because the bible says so, and the bible is true because Jesus is God. ... If the the bible is true Jesus is God , and, if Jesus is God the bible is true. CIRCULAR FALLACY AND COMPLETE BULLSHIT!
No errors in the bible: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfheSAcCsrE&t=233s
I distinctly remember singing this song every Sunday morning in Sunday School in the church basement.
"Jesus loves me—this I know,
For the Bible tells me so;"
@David: Interesting. I was lying in bed the other night and also thinking of my religious upbringing. I recall when I was really young, going to church. I remembered being told to say my prayers before I went to sleep and can even see myself doing it.
"Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake. I pray the Lord my soul to take. "
What a horrible thing to make a little child say! What was interesting about this is that by my teenage years my family was not religious at all. I became a Christian when I left home at 16 and moved from California to Pratt, Kansas. Small Town USA.
Bruh I've been through Pratt a few times ! Grew up in Kansas, near Garden City/Dodge City
Well then, you would have drove your car right past the house I lived in. We were on the main highway through town, right across from the only two gas stations in the town. One on the same side of the street, the shell station, and one across the street, the Mobil Station.
Methinks that it's because since we are now becoming louder and more numerous, they are getting insecure and are afraid that our arguments against their delusions may shatter said delusions, so now they are getting desperate to reaffirm their beliefs by repeating the same clichéd "killer arguments that you've [sic] NEVER heard before!!!11!!!!1!" over and over again.