Hey guys. I'm mikhael, 29, trans guy, ex Catholic, and I am in a lot of pain and struggleing right now. I left a highly traditional Catholic sect about 4 years ago, went pagan, but have been going more and more atheist for some time (thabks, Seth andrews ). My problem is, I have ptsd, and I have some severe religious trauma. Because you know, Catholicism. Back in my papist days I spent hour upon hour researching Catholic doctrine to avoid hell and sin, I knew the catechism back and forth. I had a very real problem where my entire life was worrying about sin. It overtook everything
And now, since I first said the words out loud that I think I'm an atheist, I feel myself going back there. Tonight I spent 2 hours googling "debunking Fatima" because it haunts me, and I feel like all the responses and answers are lacking or they aren't as complete as the Catholic apologetics response to the skeptics.
The irony is I know the bible is a mix of bullshit, forgery, folklore and more bullshit. I don't believe in a god or Jesus, but you ask me about Catholic miracles and my panic sets in.
I'm no genius. I'm not the deepest thinker, but I'm very wordy, I did things down by layers, and I'm very good at arguing for Catholicism since I spent so many years as an apologist. Usually on atheist forums when people post stuff like this the response is mockery about how op is dumb and doesn't have anybreasoning skills; please don't do that. I'm just someone with a lot of baggage and a lot of fear, and I can't go back to that life. I would lose absolutely everything.
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Hi, welcome to AR!
While I took a very different path to this point; what you have said sounds familiar to what many have posted.
So, why did you stop believing? Maybe formulating it into a post will help.
/e typo
I would say 95% of my faith to start with was fear based. As a little kid I remember staring at my sister in disbelief because she honestly believes in god and I thought everyone knew he was just pretend. In middle school I asked my Christian friends if they ever wondered if the bible was just made up. More recently I just couldn't reconcile the bible contradictions, and lack of historical evidence, the morals it taught, any of it, with the physical truth I could see around me. If any religion was true, I thought, it would be one supposedly well documented, and when that document fell apart, so did the faith
@Mikhael: Ha ha ha ha ha .... I like the opening line. I don't give it as much as 2% though. I am more like 99.999% Atheist and only 0.001% terror and dread. I don't fucking worry about it at all but logically there is nothing we can do about completely ruling it out.
The Catholics really know how to spin a guilt trip. I am not a Catholic but the horseshit they feed people about Papal succession, and the Pope being gods rep on earth is enough to turn my stomach.
If you go into the "Atheist Book Club" section you will find a book being talked about that is written by "Pagels" It's the origin of Satan or something like that,. It has been my experience that knowing where the Christians got the idea of Hell and how it has evolved is the cure for any and all fear. Like most things Christian, it is just another made up bullshit story. Regardless of the issue you seem to be having EDUCATION AND INFORMATION ARE THE BANE OF RELIGION. The more you know, the more inane religious assertions appear,.
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I agree entirely, the guilt and fear that place can push is beyond reason. Last night I barely slept and had horrible nightmares, because I kept waking up worried and stressed. That was my fault life as a Catholic, and I almost lost everything then.
I will definatelt be checking out some books. Obama have a sub to the great courses website and I'm listening on a course about the evolution of the Jesus myth. My issue is that I always want to know what the religious answer is to arguments like that, and to a frightened mind, they always seem logical.
Unfortunately Mikhael, religion is an evil institution that manipulates people like no other. It bends the emotions and intellects of good people, turning them into mindless robots capable of great good, or great evil. And along the way, it uses the powerful inducements of fear and greed against the individual.
Once an individual finally has the epiphany that they are an atheist, the journey is far from over. In fact, for some it is just beginning because they have to shake off many years of severe indoctrination, behavior modification, and training.
Mikhael, you still have a journey ahead, to finally discard the tendrils of religion. For some it could take just a few hours, for others it could take decades. When one is indoctrinated for most of their life, changing paths is never easy.
Cognostic has a very good point, that the more you educate yourself, the more shackles of religion you will throw off. For myself, participating in this forum is a blessing, it allows me to get my thoughts in order, and, most important, learn.
When I was Catholic, I spent untold hours on the Catholic Answers Forum, a place I now refer to the infected rectal boil of the internet. That place absolutely destroyed me, my self esteem, my ability to think for myself.
But I am trying. I'm hoping that having a place here with a similar but opposite social structure could be healing. I use to pride myself on being a free thinker, of now careing about others opinions. I felt confident about taking articles or books or information and being able to understand them and use them for my own arguments but now, not so much. I wanna fix that.
You will. You are determined and smart. It just takes time to reverse many years of conditioning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-JssjBJKMw
This is a cartoon but it is a quick and easy review. Christianity invented Satan. He does not exist in the OT. Hell does not exist in the OT. They are 2000 year old Christian Myths.
Ah, I love the infographics show, I learn so much. I had heard a little bit about the evolution of hell and the devil before, but of course I usually heard it through a cat olic explanation lense. Thanks!
@mikhael
G'day mate.
May I ask how long you have bee a recovering Catholic?
The Church and I parted company in 1967. Today I'm a cultural Catholic. That means my core ethics and morality have pretty much remained the same ; IE: Don't lie, cheat or steal . Do not harm others .Treat all people with respect--and a perhaps an odd one ; Today I will not have any kind of romantic relationship with a married woman living with her husband. My sense self respect and personal integrity have not changed. I am still me.
What I'm trying to say is that I think it's virtually impossible to tell yourself "I can no longer be a Catholic" and simply release yourself from a lifetime of conditioning which began before you reached the age of reasoning .It. will take time, but it will happen.
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Imo, only a fool never doubts his most powerful beliefs.
It has been a comforting thought to recently discover that it was the Christians who invented an eternal hell. The idea does not exist in Judaism.
I think it would be worth your time to at first watch a few videos by JOHN SHELBY SPONG on Youtube.He's also written some books
Hello! It has only been about 4 years sober for me :p I'm an artist, so Catholicism still clings in a lot of my imagery and aesthetic.
I remember when I learned that too, I researched it obsessively as I do because it seemed like such an impossible notion. Honestly that's what still appeals to me about some religions, ones that focus more on living right in this world than what happens after. It's what drew me to earth centered paganism, which is where most of my morality still lies.