I'm just growing more confused and concerned. How can there be so .any Catholic miracles that aren't exainable ? The statue at Akita in Japan bled on national t.v. and all the fluids were tested to be real fluids.
I want there to be a rational explanation but how many times can I say, I don't know, before I feel like I'm lying to myself?
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science-debunks-miracle-of-weeping-ma...
Why don't you do your own frigging research instead of whining, You have a google account. Use it .
At this point you just look like an ass who is not even trying.
Wrong statue, I'm talking about the statue in Akita Japan and I went through several pages trying to find info debunking it
You think porous wood is different than porous plaster? Really? Blood comes from small SCRATCHES on her hands. WTF are you not listening to?
Have you any idea at all how many weeping statures there are. The are frigging EVERYWHERE. You can make one and stick the damn thing in your living room.
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
I don't know maybe I really am having a mental breakdown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1KooZ37A8U ITS A MIRACLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYkAwhRnRQs Oh Fuck Another Miracle
@EVERYONE: This one is priceless. The statue was leaking sewer water and the faithful were drinking it. When it was debunked, the debunker was arrested for blasphemy. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaqIBpK62Yo
I guess I'm still really hung up on supposed documentation and word of mouth. If tbeybsay it was tested and the doctors didn't know what they were testing I take it for granted that they didn't know. I also take it for granted that the samples were not switched before, come to think of it.
You need to flip the switch in your head Mikhael.
I worry not even a little, about: gods, ghost, goblins, monsters, fairies, etc.
Even if I see an article pop up on the web somewhere saying object x is doing unexplained y.
All of these are fantastical claims. If there was actual real evidence about it. You would not have to go looking for it. If there was some sort of special statue somewhere that has all the scientist in the world stumped even after careful examination, trust me, you, me, EVERYONE would know about it.
Let us take a statue that weeps blood/tears literally.
Is the blood usable as donor blood? Can we take the statue and up its production? Many lives could be saved. How about tears? What if we make the tear ducts bigger? Can it be a source of cleanish water? Maybe run it through a basic filter, and increase its supply 100x? It could provide water for thousands. In a highly portable manner.
Then the incredible physics breaking event that is occuring. Blood and tears being manifest at a statue with no source material? How powerfully does this stuff happen? Could we take the statue up to space and have an endless supply of liquid being created out of ... nothing? This would be incredibly useful to a space station, they could clean it up, hook it up to a machine, and not even tell the crew about it, but suddenly space station costs would drop drastically.
Does it come out at same temperature always? Or if its is cold enough around the statue, will the tears and blood freeze, does the flow stop? Hot enough, instantly vaporize?
Does this all sound utterly insane to you? It does to me. And this is just the tip of the iceberg on the practicality of a statue that create blood and tears out of nothing.
EVEN IF somehow all that were true and evidenced. It does absolutely nothing to evidence any god idea. If I deface the statue, cover it, does it stop? Can I beat a supposed "divine" god idea thing that easily, what does that say about the god idea?
If it doesn't stop, could I deconstruct it, and put the necessary parts in my own statue? "Evidencing" my own god idea simply because that is the statue it appears in? Would everyone then be forced to accept my god idea is the correct one? I probably would set myself up as a god in human for myself and demand worship and tribute. (And I would still be way better morally then just about any god idea I ever heard of.) If I had a large enough following, I would put an end to war, end hunger, and begin work on reversing the damage to the planet humans have wrought. But this is all fantasy dream land, because obviously the statue is a trick, barely worth mention in the dark recesses of the internet, not some physics defying object of some sort of god idea origin.
Keep working at it Mikhael. Assume any claim is completely bullshit, especially when it comes to religion until properly evidenced. People been trying and failing to evidence their "religion idea" since the dawn of humankind, and in all that time, zero actual evidence. It is a very safe and correct position to demand real evidence for any god idea.
Seriously, it is the same as worrying that, whatever monster you watched in whatever movie you seen recently is real. You know its not, it is fiction, a movie with special effects. And you know this because there are 100's of thousands of movies to watch with monsters in them they cannot all be real or we would all be dead. Is godzilla real can I travel to japan and see the devastation it caused? Can I ask a forum member that has lived or lives in japan if he spotted any sign of godzilla? Or can I just assume godzilla is a fictional character, until compelling evidence suggest otherwise? I think... the later. This same rule applies to any and all god ideas.
@Mikhael: The statue at Akita in Japan bled on national t.v.
Japanese national TV!? Are you kidding? I lived in Japan for many years. I saw a woman contact Venusian angels telepathically and then sweat gold dust on national TV. I've seen panel shows dedicated to photographs of ghosts. Bleeding, weeping statues are 10 a penny.
I was also the interpreter for a Japanese TV crew that visited New Zealand after a Japanese trawler hauled up something that looked vaguely like a plesiosaur in 1977. They wanted underwater shots, but the location was many KM offshore, so to save money they had me arrange a dive team to film in a LAKE. That's how committed to truth Japanese popular TV is. They'll do anything for sensation. (And the dinosaur was actually a decomposing shark.)
....thats something j had no idea about, actually. And being a country with such a tiny Christian population, it's possible they would want to bolster local attention
@Mikhael: And being a country with such a tiny Christian population
There are plenty of Christians in Japan. Pope Franky is there right now visiting the poor bastards.
About 2% of Japanese are Christians, which amounts to over 2 million people. There've been eight Christian prime ministers. I've been accosted by Japanese Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses on the street in Tokyo. Japan also has plenty of Catholic churches and pedophile priests.
From my observations, the Japanese aren't very religious but highly superstitious. Those that espouse Christianity tend to be very devout.
Japanese people seem to be very open about asking other people's religion. I always answer "kane-moke shugi desu". (I worship money.)
Ah, my .mistake. I should have clarified I meant a smaller percentage of the population than, say, America
So do you think the climate of Christianity there could lend itself to a story like Akita?
Every Country in the World (Nearly Every Country) has a smaller percentage of Christians than America. What are you talking about. America is an extremely ignorant country.
PIAAC is an enormous, every-10-year study of adult literacy, developed and organized by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development in collaboration with the U.S.
Some 52% of all Americans (global literacy rate: 49%) have basic or below-basic reading skills. (THIS IS ONLY WHAT IS REPORTED. THE PEOPLE WHO COULD NOT FILL OUT THE FORMS PROBABLY WERE NOT COUNTED.)
PEOPLE IS DUMB!!! https://www.wyliecomm.com/2019/03/us-literacy-rate/
To be clear, basic or below basic reading skills is roughly 5th grade or lower in US schools. To rephrase, half of the world population reads at a level a semi decently educated 10 year old can read at, or worse. I personally was a nerd and loved books and I was reading a college level by 6th grade. By the time I was 11, I could read english better then 90+ % of all adults that speak/read english.
Most of the post here are well beyond the ability for over half of the world population to read, let alone fully comprehend. And that is assuming everyone can read english.
I seen lots of post here that are at college level or above, roughly 2 percent of the world population, TODAY, can read and comprehend at that level.
If you are reading and posting here and actually comprehend these more advanced post, you are among the elite 2% of the world population.
And then you consider, this is after MUCH progress.
When the bible or any bronze age superstition book, that was supposedly written roughly ~2000 years ago, maybe only a handful of people (I would guess less than a hundred) could actually read/write/comprehend at a level of what it took to "understand" the bible they wrote. In the language and context it was written in. Parchment/paper/ink and the ability to write anything that was half legible was an incredibly rare ability that only belonged to the incredibly rich (nobility) or the extremely powerful and rich religions back then.
It makes perfect sense that the bible and many other holy books are subject to constant revision. There are some holy books that claim that they stay exactly the same, this is even worse! Expecting people to read and comprehend at a high level something written in a different language/time then their own, in a mostly long dead language? Testing says I can read and comprehend at post college graduate level, despite my impressive modern english reading and comprehension skills, I know I could spend a lifetime studying old dead languages and probably miss half the context in some book written 2000 years ago.
I stand by what I wrote in earlier posts: if someone read a "holy book" that they could read/comprehend at a college level, they would consider it nonsense. The only exception of course being: if its a holy book of their own religion idea, where all rules of evidence and rationality and logic go flying out the window for the particular god idea they are stuck in, as that is frequently the nature of the self perpetuating lie that is religion.
If so many of these canonized miracles are hoaxes though why doesn't anyone ever come forward later to admit it?
Mikhael: why doesn't anyone ever come forward later to admit it
Here's a story about a weeping Madonna that was recognized by the cburch and exposed by a scientist:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science-debunks-miracle-of-weeping-ma...
Here's a video demonstrating how to make your own weeping statue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsEsnL6gEzk
My guess is that people don't want to admit fakery a) because they'd look like idiots, or b) because they'd arrested for fraud.
Those are all good points, I didn't know about that case
Im.. slightly calmer right now
@Mikhael
Dude, one of the main things you should remember is that religion (Especially Christianity and Catholicism) is a multi-billion dollar INDUSTRY. And my personal opinion is that those who are at the top of the religious food chain making the most profits have about as much belief in their respective gods as we atheists. Furthermore, those "faithful leaders" will go to ANY lengths to maintain their positions, power, and wealth. Therefore, all of these supposed "miracles" are simply another way of drawing in more money and keeping the gullible followers sucked further in to the delusions. Seriously, man, stop stressing so much about this stupid nonsense.
They're so fucking good at keeping you scared in man. Fucking Christ they teach that once you're in, if you ever leave, you can never be saved, period
@Mikhael Re: "...they teach that once you're in, if you ever leave, you can never be saved, period"
Yeah, no shit, Sherlock. You think I don't know this? Spent over forty years of my life living under that suffocating blanket. Guess what, though.... YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. Hmmm.... Let's try this another way...
Granted, there are many factors that finally allowed me to break free from my religious indoctrination. Ironically, one of those factors was being raised and encouraged to think for myself. Other factors included education, world travels, life experiences, and various other odds and ends. Granted, I am aware that many (most) folks do not always get those advantages. Nevertheless, it is STILL possible to get rid of those shackles and all of that unnecessary stress without any of those things. As I have told other visiting theists on here before, all of the science and history and everything else that debunks a majority of religious bullshit is very nice and all, but those are NOT the reasons for my being an atheist. They only help to reinforce my stance. That being said, I am about to share with you the primary reason that finally allowed me to break free and live my life with TRUE peace of mind without all the self-doubt and fear of whatever hell has ever been imagined by humanity. So, please, pay close attention...
Here are the basics of what I was taught about God and the bible for most of my life ever since I was a little kid...
1. God is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving, and all-forgiving.
2. God created the universe and all of Humanity with an absolute PERFECT PLAN that can NEVER be changed.
3. God knows EVERYTHING about me..... EVERYTHING.... Every thought I ever had. Every thought I am having. Every thought I will ever have. And God has known these things for countless eons before I ever existed in this world. Meaning, that God should know exactly what I am typing at this very moment, and it knows WHY I think and feel the way I do about it.
4. As part of God's plan, He already knows exactly what will happen to me throughout every single point of my life. And He already knows exactly what will happen to me after I die.
5. God created EVERYTHING. That includes Satan and hell.
6. This same all-loving and all-forgiving God will punish those who do not believe in Him and worship him by sending them to hell when they die.
7. The Bible is the PERFECT word of God that we should use as a guideline for our lives to bring us closer to Him.
Granted, there are many more things I was taught, but these seven items are the only ones that matter in this particular case. So, with only these seven very basic and general points, you should be able to easily find quite a few GLARING contradictions with this particular god. (I'll let you find them for yourself. You learn better that way.) However, with just these seven points in mind, here are my personal feelings/thoughts about this particular god that allow me to confidently go about my life worry-free from any type of religious threats/oppression....
1. Even IF this particular god were somehow proven to be real, I would still not worship it. (I detest narcissistic, insecure, egotistical bullies.) More to the point, this particular god should already KNOW this right now. And if this god truly IS all-knowing as described, then it would do me ZERO good to pretend to worship it. And there is absolutely NOTHING I can possibly do about that. Period.
2. Since this god already has a PERFECT plan in which I am supposedly a part of fulfilling, then who is to say I am not already doing exactly what I am supposed to be doing as part of that plan? Regardless, I am certainly not going to lose any sleep over the ridiculous nonsense.
3. Just reading the very first couple of books of the bible is enough to let me know it could not have possibly been dictated by an omniscient/omnipotent being/entity. It's just too damn ludicrous. Hell, I could have written a better guideline for humanity during my high school English class, for cryin' out loud!
Bottom line is, the VERY FOUNDATION of that entire belief system is cracked and extremely unstable, to say the least. Anything built on top of that, in my opinion, is totally worthless. Therefore, I refuse to waste another minute of my life getting all worried and anxious over what some imaginary man-made myth may or may not think about me. Because when it comes right down to it, this is the only life I KNOW I have for certain, and I choose to live the remainder of it in the best way I know how. And when I finally die, whatever happens, happens. I have ZERO control over that one way or the other. So why waste your life NOW being miserable about something you cannot control? Your choice, though, Mikhael.
As ways tin man you make excellent points and come from a very sound place. But coming from a place of Catholicism my return is, he made you and he sees all your possibilities, especially the ones where you are saved and it's definatelt your choice to go down that future
Oh yeah, I know this one: he knows when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake (Santa Claus song).
All this stuff about christianity in Japan reminds me of a front page article of a major city newspaper in Oz.
It was 1963 and to join in the festive mood of Christmas a restaurant in Japan featured a huge Merry Christmas banner high on a wall in the restaurant under which a bloodied Santa Claus was hung crucified while a jolly looped tape played the Happy Birthday to You song over and over.
Seems noone can get religion right.
@Grinseed: a bloodied Santa Claus was hung crucified
Perfect! We should do that every year. I'll bang in the nails. Ho, ho fucking ho. I hate all Santas (except Bad Santa of course).
Jesus fuck I was feeling fine all night and then I started looking up shit on Catholic salvation what is /wrong/ with me
As I think I've recommended before; I suggest something a bit more rational:
I found a free audio version (you can just play the chapters on the website) of Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay. Published in the 1840's; I think it is just as timely as ever.
I specifically recommend chapters 21 and 22 (Modern Prophecies, Part 1 & 2).
@Nyarlathotep: That's a great choice. I may even reread it myself.. Another MUST READ, and it is on YouTube, DEMON HAUNTED WORLD, by Carl Sagan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5GjUi4eaZ8
I've read Demon Haunted World, it was excellent.
http://phb.secondsensehearing.com/content/relationship-between-hearing-l...
Oh hey look what can be the result of psychosomatic illness. Hearing loss
And apparently her doctor didn't think it was miraculous
Also I can't find any info on typing sweat or tears
And it apparently took 2 tries to get this passed as a miracle with the "updated facts"
Hey hi hello guess who was up all night terrified of this case again because they're stupid and hate themselves and want to die
Hey Mickael, I saw a video the other day and thought of you, thought you might get something out of it. It shows faith healers presumably healing a woman with a deformed arm. But there is a problem...apparently they have preformed this same miracle, ON THE SAME WOMAN (same arm) five times!
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