What do you hate about religion ?

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Italianish's picture
What do you hate about religion ?

In general as well as the holy books that are followed.. hates..dislikes?

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Whitefire13's picture
For myself it was the

For myself it was the “unwritten” rules. The ones that over time, as a group, you’re suppose to know and follow. Eg. Skirts no shorter than mid knee length, no beards for men, no school sports...I once got “counselled” by the elders in my Kingdom Hall for talking with a “worldly man” on my lunch break (I was being like ‘Dinah’)...the never being “good enough” ... I hated that my time was “not my own” and my future happiness and needs and wants were to be fulfilled in the future if I put “Jehovah first”.

Blahhh, now I’m off to play my card games and listen to a nice atheist podcast or something cool about demons ;)

Italianish's picture
@Whitefire

@Whitefire
You're definitely good enough, fundamentally worthy. Religion cant define you :)
Were you one of the JW that believed Jesus was the archangel Michael?

Whitefire13's picture
Italianish... @Jesus split

Italianish... @Jesus split personality or reincarnation theory ....

First, the snow finally melted in my yard, so I’ve been outside working a shit-ton :)

All JW believe that “Micheal the archangel” was Jehovah’s first “creation”. Through Micheal/Jesus everything else was created (Jah didn’t do it directly). Then, Mike volunteers his “tour of duty” on earth and gets resurrected back again as Micheal the Archangel ...who will “soon” lead the finally war on this earthly fuck-up LOL

cranky47's picture
@whitefire

@whitefire

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic.

I know little about JW's except that the are a millenarian movement. The impression I have of them may be due to intellectual snobbery .

My Impression is that JW's are very class based. IE Working class and under educated, which is also how I see evangelical literalists as a group.

There is something deeply ignorant and intellectually 'primitive' to me about both literalists and millenarianists.

I'd be grateful for anything you could tell me about the social conventions of JW' s.

Context; I was brought up Irish Catholic. In my opinion, the most pig ignorant, superstitious, dogmatic, bigoted and hateful members of a pernicious faith. So, I'm in no position to point fingers, I'm simply curious.

Whitefire13's picture
@Cranky... no insult to my

@Cranky... no insult to my background. The arrogance and ignorance of JWs is astounding. Don’t get lured by the love bombing :)

Higher education IS NOT encouraged, recommended, sought after ... if you “graduate” high school you’ve done well for yourself!

Basic encouragement for the youth: NO worldly association (go to school though and preach/warn your classmates): NO extra-curricular activity (music, sports, drama, art): ALL education is through the “faithful and discreet slave” (ie WTBTS or now commonly known as JW.com?): NO sex before marriage and if dating, a chaperone.

There’s more but basically the above formula turns out a bunch of window-washers/cleaning staff that get married at 17/18....growing up, thinking they “know shit” because they’ve studied all the Societies’ literature (3 meetings a week, daily “study”, door-to-door, meeting prep)

There is NO time for “oneself”, let alone time to “think outside the box”. And if one manages to “think outside the box” and move ever-so-slightly sideways from the “herd mentality”, they are considered bad-association (you can talk to but only on the most superficial level)

If they associate with you at work, the underlying motive IS to teach you the “truth”, NO matter how they present themselves. The ONLY way to know if your JW assoc. is a friend is see if they’ll have drinks with you after work and get them drunk (always set up a designated driver)

Cognostic's picture
@Italianish: What do I hate

@Italianish: What do I hate about religion? "The blatant and obvious abuse of the human mind."

Italianish's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic
I am using PC at the moment, I usually stick with the mobile webpage.
Yes there is much abuse. Yet its also subtle, i went through different abuse.. which was more bible oriented, all my life even in Christian churches i never felt like i belonged. Always an outcast and lone wolf.. i realized my issue was trying to be like anyone else or conforming isn't what my nature calls for, for i always wind up in trouble. I feel like I am the one to set the example and be Chief Italianish of the Authentic people tribe.
However ive noticed abuse in other ways in the catholic church. I am sure if i look between the lines i can see it...Like an unsuspecting pastor spending hours on end researching the bible to make for a sunday service and doesn't spend much time being a man... rather Bible, Prayer, maybe worship..then wife, kids..etc. as a Christian i believed i had to study my bible for hours and live it and never do anything fun, while my conscience that was dipped in a chaotic oblivion would pressure me to doing what God wanted.. i felt bullied doing what God wanted. so that in itself is a form of abuse i guess..when i used to bring my little brother to church to check it out for me and him i wanted him in the kids program but i watched like a hawk and didn't go to service...something wasn't right with them. i bought my nephew years later forgetting the experience with my brother...i believe it was my protective instincts living through me, kept him close...it didn't look dangerous but something is going on that i am not aware of in churches. When people are told theyre being bad for having natural human desires.. like sex because of puberty(Lust is a sin, save sex for marriage) It hurts the human body and mind and is a form of abuse.. lying about a place that doesn't exist called hell and a lake of fire and telling it to really anyone can be abusive. I literally feel like i was born again... born into an experience of slow painful death... yeah.. well maybe as a man who isn't Christian anymore i can give a testimony to the people who are still in there that i care about, they wouldn't believe me tho. they have a biblical excuse for everything.

Tin-Man's picture
Hate?... A rather strong word

Hate?... A rather strong word I tend to reserve for more "severe" things/circumstances. Okay, in all honesty, I do try to avoid that term altogether whenever possible. Because (as is was so wisely brought to my attention by my amazing wife a few years ago) to hate something basically means that particular "something" still has some type of emotional hold on you. Meaning, in some ways, that "something" still has some amount of control over you. Personally, I absolutely do not like something having that type of control over me. As such, "cold indifference" is now my default mode for things I detest. "Hate" is an emotional fire response that often takes thinking and calculating out of the equation if a confrontation should arise. (I know this from personal experience.) On the other hand, "cold indifference" sets all emotions aside and allows room for a clear mind to plan and calculate should confrontation present itself. Plus, "hate" can be a heavy burden to bear. Who needs all that extra baggage getting in the way of having a happy life? And if a confrontation should happen to darken your doorstep, why give the opponent an advantage by greeting it with a blinding rage of hate? Turn off the emotions. Think/react. Take out the threat. Go back to being happy. No time for hate.

In regards to religion, though, I suppose the best way to describe my feelings toward it would be mild amusement along with a small dose of fascination, mixed with a little bit of frustration. And the frustration has two parts to it. First, frustrated that it took me so long to break away from its grasp, despite all those years of my logic and intellect telling me to let it go. (The threat of hell, though, is a very powerful thing when instilled into the brain at a very young age.) And, second, the frustration that there are so many highly intelligent people in this world who do not see it for the population controlling/manipulating scam it truly is. How can they NOT see it??? But then I have to remind myself of how I once thought along the same lines they still do.

If there is any anger at all on my part, it is reserved for those groups/individuals who hide behind their religious dogmas as an excuse to cause discrimination/harm to innocent others. Keep in mind, though, I do not hate them. They are not worthy of my hate. And given the opportunity, I would gladly end their existence with about as much thought and emotion as stepping on a cockroach. Yes, during a vast majority of my life my religious indoctrination caused me many painful moments of confusion, doubt, and indecision. And, much to my shame and regret, there were a few times it caused me to over-ride my logical/rational mind and make decisions and act in such a way that may have caused unnecessary emotional pain to others. Fortunately, I am very happy to say I no longer have those problems. I am free of the insidious clutches of religion, and I am happier and more clear-minded now than I have ever been in my life. And I refuse to spend the remainder of whatever life I may have left allowing it to still control me with the emotion of hate. I have much better things to do now... *grin*...

CyberLN's picture
I hate that they ignore me

I hate that they ignore me when I say, “Keep your laws and rules off my body.”

cranky47's picture
I don't hate religion per se.

I don't hate religion per se.

It is my position that religions only exist because they meet some important human needs.

HOWVER ,I think organised religions are the greatest confidence trick ever perpetrated on the human race. They have humbugged the hoi polloi into believing that every god absolutely needs a priestly caste to intercede on behalf of worshippers. My all time favourites are the Egyptian priests of Amun. At one point they were richer than Pharaoh. They truly made the Catholics and most other of today's religious parasites look like amateurs.

I say 'most' because I'm not sure about Babylonian ,Mayan, Aztec Incan gods . They got people to believe it was a good idea to sacrifice their children to the gods.

Having said that, I'm doubtful that organised religion will ever be completely abolished. I think it might be possible to control their worst excesses by making a few changes:

(1) All organised religions would be made to pay full taxes just like any other business..

(2). All clergy of every rank would be obliged to have a proper, tax paying job.

(3) No organised religion would be permitted to own property. All churches, schools and other property would belong to the community. If the community was no longer extant when it became necessary to liquidate property, proceeds would go to the state.

(4) Religious schools would be permitted but would be obliged to teach the general syllabus set by the state. Religious lessons would be permitted as extras, not instead of any state set subject(s) .

(5) No religious school would receive any subsidy or other support from the state UNLESS it accepted students without regard to religious affiliation or sexual preference

(6) regardless of (5) all religious schools would be obliged to hire teachers or other staff regardless of religious affiliation or sexual preference.

Failure to comply with the guidelines would result in stiff fines in the first instance. The CEO's of the religion would be held jointly responsible together with the school principal . Persistent breaches would result in massive fines and the deregistration of the school(s)

At the same time, no religion would be permitted to interfere politically at any level . No member of clergy could hold elected office.

To celebrate the above changes becoming law, there will be a flyover by appropriate squadron of flying pigs.

Grinseed's picture
No hatred, but I intensely

No hatred, but I intensely dislike the Arrogance.

Italianish's picture
I hate religion because of

I hate religion because of what it does to mankind
The Bible for instance condones slavery even when the majestic and all loving son of god Jesus walked the earth basically saying “slavery is okay... but you have to love your slaves and treat them right”
God didn’t abolish slavery, man did.
I know what it’s like to be a slave on 2 levels and religious indoctrination is one of them.
I also don’t like religion because it doesn’t count women as equals.
Jesus never filled the empty void I had in my life.
I’m slowly learning to love myself cuz I know I’m worth it.
I dislike the fear it promotes to lead people to others who are imaginary power to confess personal things to men they don’t know very well. I hate worship, obeying Gods law which is basically God saying... “ love me or die”
I’m not the kind of man that likes to do things considered evil.. I’m all for healthy and true unconditional love.. I’m not for being blackmailed to love.
I also dislike religion because it’s not even cool. It’s not even interesting to me anymore.. the Bible is something I usually hated to read.
I hate religion. Mostly Christianity.. but really anything that gets people to kill people and cause segregation and mental illness.

Whitefire13's picture
Italianish ... to be fair,

Italianish ... to be fair, religion doesn’t “cause” mental illness. Mental distress, mental fucked up thinking - sure - even mental neglect ... but most mental “illness” is physical/behavioural - throw in some environmental and it sure doesn’t help.

Mikhael's picture
I hate what it did to me

I hate what it did to me
I hate that it pushes me into a marriage I didn't want, a marriage in a religion that taught me that even kissing my husband could send me to hell if I did it wrong.l, that watching the wrong TV show or not telling off strangers in Walgreens for buying condoms would send me to hell.
I hate it for teaching me at a young age that my heavenly mother said souls fall into hell like snowflakes and that maybe .02% of devout Catholics would make it in to heaven
/But God loved me/
I hate it for still haunting me. I hate that candle flames trigger me, that hearing about a family members health recovery triggers me, that hearing about certain countries triggers me and I worry I'm going to spend my entire existance only half alive because I'm having to fight off Catholic panic attacks all day, from the time I wake up till I go through sleep.
I hate it because I have a good life as a trans man with a beautiful wife and I can never fully relax and savor it.
I hate it because it's a platform to abuse children in every way, because even if you escape without being molested, you were still shoved in a room alone with a man you didn't know every week from the time you were seven and had to detail to him your sexual sins. From /childhood/
I hate it because it actually traumatized me and I have to deal with a floor or /not all Christian's/

Algebe's picture
@Italianish: What do you

@Italianish: What do you hate about religion ?

Men in black dresses. Men in white dresses. Men with their shirt collars on backwards. Men with ridiculous hats.

Men who exploit the lost, sick, and weak for their own monetary, sexual, or political advantage.

Men who compensate for their own awful crimes, such as child-rape and incest, by vilifying what other people do harmlessly with other consenting adults.

I hate religions because of the power that they give to dishonest, selfish, perverted, mediocre, defective men.

cranky47's picture
@ thread

@ thread

I'm not convinced that. a 'religion' and 'organised religion' are necessarily the same. I concede that sadly, in practice it does tend to describe the same thing,.

I also loathe the humbug, the hubris, pomposity and mendacity. -- and the material greed. AND the sheer evil hiding in clerical guise of which I have only become aware within the last few decades..

I'm pretty sure sexual crimes date back to at least the the fifth century with Christians, but that such have always occurred within religions everywhere .It is my belief that as a general principle, sexual crimes are more about power and control than simply sex. I understand this is a common view among psychologists, although perhaps not the consensus. .

Algebe's picture
@cranky47: I'm not convinced

@cranky47: I'm not convinced that. a 'religion' and 'organised religion' are necessarily the same.

I think religious feelings engendered by fear, grief, injustice, etc., can be compared to a disease that weakens the immune system, such as HIV or COVID-19. Organized religion is like the opportunistic pneumonia that swoops in and attacks people with weakened immunity.

LogicFTW's picture
@OP

@OP

Oof, where to start.

Well first, hate is a strong word. I don't really hate anyone or anything, (too much effort.) But probably the top of my list of dislike: is drumpf, drumpf supporters, and most organized religion. (Typically involves gathering, praying, and tithes to reach my shit list.)

I dislike how religion these days holds humanity back. We should be seeking knowledge, backed by observable data and testing. Not spending all this collective time, effort, etc on some completely unevidenced god idea, made a 1000 time worse with the accompanying organized religions that put all these "rules" on it, that are completely arbitrary until looked through the lens of control/perpetuity.

We humans should always strive to better ourselves, and we can do that more effectively without organized religion/god. Instead it sticks around like a tick, sucking away resources for a tiny few at the top.

Italianish's picture
Yeah religion keeps people

Yeah religion keeps people delusional.
Some people claim they hear the voice of God and they act upon it good or bad.
What I sincerely disagree with is false Christians.. they pretend to be there for you.. are seemingly friendly they seem to care.. but they’re something else
I’d rather deal with a real Christian than a phony one.

Tin-Man's picture
@Italianish Re: "I’d rather

@Italianish Re: "I’d rather deal with a real Christian than a phony one."

How the hell do you tell the difference???... *perplexed look*...

cranky47's picture
@Tin-Man

@Tin-Man

"How the hell do you tell the difference???... *perplexed look*..."

I've never had any trouble,. There's a quote "from their deeds ye shall know them"

My darling late mother was 'a small c Christian" A devout Catholic until the day she died. My mother gave witness to her faith by the way she lived day to day ---the day she died, staff at her aged care facility were in tears. At the funeral, there were these people none of her family knew. They were people mum had helped over the years.

As far as I'm aware, I've never met a completely bad person, nor a completely good one. However, on balance, everyone I've ever known is more good than not .

Imo we are not defined by the worst thing we do, nor the best, but by the thousands of ordinary (for us) things we do.

Italianish's picture
@Tin-man

@Tin-man
that's an amazing question, cuz I fucking cant anymore haha. When I was a Christian I wasn't a pretend believer, I didn't do a good job as a Christian, but some Christians I feel weird vibes around. Scary Vibes.
I hate religion because I have an emotional attachment to the pain I feel it caused me, as well as maybe I am entitled? Well... as a human being I wouldn't call freedom and natural rights to be entitlement. I feel like those were taken away...to do good for the right reasons were traded with do good cuz God says so, I will be blessed, if I do good I wont die. Now if I feel like I don't wanna show a person love, I wont. i would rather not replace it with hate. Someone said that hate is too good a burden to bear and i agree with that, anger is a great burden to bear too.

Tin-Man's picture
@Italianish Re: "When I was

@Italianish Re: "When I was a Christian I wasn't a pretend believer, I didn't do a good job as a Christian, but some Christians I feel weird vibes around."

Guess you were lucky, because I always felt weird vibes around ALL of them. I do not recall that I EVER felt comfortable around people who were always talking about or making some type of references to god. And I would be taught one thing in church, but then get back home during the week and see all these "righteous Christians" doing and saying things that were totally in opposition to the things I was taught in church. It all just seemed so terribly phony. Problem was, though, I was too terrified of the devil and hell to question that stuff too much. As a result, my religious indoctrination made my life very uncomfortable for a very large portion of my life. With that being said, allow me to address another comment you made that caught my attention...

Re: "I hate religion because I have an emotional attachment to the pain I feel it caused me, as well as maybe I am entitled?"

An emotional attachment to the pain, huh?... Hmmmm.... And you somehow feel like you are "entitled" to that pain and hate?... *tilting head to one side*... *thoughtful look*.... And WHY, exactly, would you have any interest whatsoever in holding on to such things? Is it not enough that you had your happiness stripped away from your control for all those years? Do you really believe holding onto hate/resentment/pain BY YOUR OWN CHOICE is somehow making your life better now? Dude, believe me when I tell you, I DO totally understand the anger and resentment caused by all those wasted years. But let me tell you something else.... You need to find a way to get that shit out of your system and then LET.... IT.... GO. Period. The religious bullshit controlled your life and made you miserable for way too many years, and now you are finally seeing your way out of its malignant clutches. Do not replace that with a hatred and do not dwell remorsefully over that time you feel was stolen from you. Because in doing so, you are now (BY YOUR OWN CHOICE) wasting your life by making YOURSELF miserable, and you are squandering away your chance to be happy during the unknown amount of time you have left. Just let it go, man. Whatever you do, just find a way to let it go.

Cognostic's picture
@Sometimes the Victims

@Sometimes the Victims Survive. The lucky, never have to go through the turmoil. The rest, we hope, will grab a lifeline and pull themselves out of the senselessness they wallow in.

Medic0258's picture
I can't stand the arrogance

I can't stand the arrogance and the holier/better than thou attitude fanatically religious people have. Particularly my least favorite group of religious nut jobs, the Catholics. I hate the control the church uses, controlling people's lives, bedroom activities and their finances all in the name of "gods blessing" and not going to hell. Its literally sickening. The hypocrisy that religious folks exhibit is also something that nauseates me, it goes hand in hand with the holier than thou attitude. The people judging you, or someone else are the same clowns that will be watching porn when they get home, or texting another male/female that is not their SO ETC. These people are no different than anyone else, yet they believe they are. Just ask them, they will tell you.

Mikhael's picture
The amount of control they

The amount of control they have over the bedroom only sickens me more and more the further away I get. Dont kiss your spouse for too long, don't wear lingerie, don't touch your partners butt when you walk by, dont send dirty texts. Some traditions even disallow touching one another's or your own genitals for foreplay because it's not "life giving$ and I can't make that up

David Killens's picture
I do not despise most theists

I do not despise most theists. To me, they are the victims of a con job.

I hate religion because it crushes the human spirit. As soon as children can comprehend, they are told they are worthless and doomed to hell just because they suck. Religion stands in the way of science and the advancement of our understanding and knowledge.

Cognostic's picture
@Medic0258: Over 40 years

@Medic0258: Over 40 years ago, I uttered those exact same words.

As part of a small traveling troupe of singers, guitar players, and witnessing "Jesus People," I traveled the plains of Kansas, singing and praising the lord. I got a good look at the inner workings of the evangelic life style and the money grubbing church tactics as preachers gathered up and sold their congregations to traveling evangelists. I watched the petty squabbles as the good Christians struggled with each other for time on the microphone to share their story. I watched the same stories grow in intensity and change over time. I saw the same congregation members you speak of with their holier than thou attitudes who...... (the list is long).

My journey began when I decided to become a preacher. Along with the experience in the troupe, I decided to visit every Church in town. The more experience and understanding I got, the less I believed. I eventually ended up coming to the realization that it was all BS. I put it in the corner where the BS goes and in 40+ years of examining religious claims, that BS has not moved an inch. Not a single inch.

Medic0258's picture
Wow that's insane man, you

Wow that's insane man, you were really into the church shit huh? I never came close to wanting to be a pastor...that's quite a story. Oddly enough church and its idiosyncrasies is one of the reasons I no longer believe...its an elaborate business.

Mikhael's picture
Yoooo I put real discretion

Yoooo I put real discretion into thinking of becoming a nun at one point. Strange times

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