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Evolution and the big bang are objectively evidenced, your crackpot fantasy is not, nor is your constant claim that these objective facts are "improbable" without the addition of your unevidenced fantasies, and your inability to believe this is called an argument from incredulity fallacy.
Please offer your definition of your god of gods.
If anything interacts with this known universe, it is not "outside" of space and time.
"So it still seems to me big bang/evolution is still quite improbable can someone tell me why it is more probable than I am assuming and why it reaches a probability close enough the simulation argument to at least make the theories probabilistic equivalent?"
That is a huge pile of horseshit you just unloaded in that sentence. The odds and probabilities on life in this universe are being explored. Ever hear of the Drake equation? But the second part, asking for a comparison between naturally occurring life and one created in a simulation is nonsense until you can provide the odds and probabilities that we are living in a simulation. Here is a hint, you can't provide any numbers.
The original argument by Nick Bostrom is kind of interesting. The butchered version that got posted here is a hot mess.
Thats what happens when children get all their information from You tube instead of using YT as a disrectional sign to the actual documents......and then confuse philosophy with science *sigh*
Yes 100% agree with you. As a philosphical argument it has interest...but science has effectively debunked it so far...even if Kohar did it accidentally.
@whitefire13 it is kinda a seperate discussion but "Have you spent any time examining evolution evidence within the simulation?" Yes of corse I have studied the theories and let's say I am not impressed. Besides the improbable arguments there are just too many hoaxes still in the high school textbooks to not put a bad taste in my mouth. Such as the animal embroes like human fakes, pielt down man fake, nabraska man fake, lucy hoax, the dino with feathers ( which I thought had quite potential as missing link but turned out to be fake) also i do not find digging up a bunch of bones and arranging them big to small or small to vig as very confincing of anything, even dna simularites is not really all that confincing ( cars have simular design kinda means nothing) ....like i said it is a different topic and do not want to polute this topic with a can of worms.....I think we can all agree we do not need hoaxes in high school text books.
Kgp4life, you wrote, “I think we can all agree we do not need hoaxes in high school text books.”
I think there is likely not much we would all agree with you on.
"(cars have simular(similar) design kinda means nothing)"
Cars don't produce offspring.
I'm calling cognitive dissonance...I am assuming christianity.
Kgp4life - you wrote “ school textbooks to not put a bad taste in my mouth. Such as the animal embroes like human fakes, pielt down man fake, nabraska man fake, lucy hoax, the dino with feathers ( which I thought had quite potential as missing link but turned out to be fake) also i do not find digging up a bunch of bones and arranging them big to small or small to vig as very confincing of anything, even dna simularites is not really all that confincing ”
Again, let’s say you are “right”. Who exposed the “fakes”? Science (didn’t hold up under scrutiny and also helped mold ethics of “bias removal” within the process). However, as the “fakes” have been exposed, this same process has also evidenced evolution and “predictability” within methods (ie geographical/geological when “looking” for fossils). Again, supplied via the matrix.
Perhaps the civilization that set up our “simulation” has died out and “we are running” on an energy source, left on our own, evolving (as set up by the program) and will eventually end. As such, I’m sure that like my Skyrim character, when the game is “off”, I’ll cease to “exist”...
So for now, I enjoy my sensory-input existence for the unknown time-frame I’ve been “programmed” to enjoy it.
My question as to why this particular worldview is one you prefer, still hasn’t been addressed.
Also - here’s another layer to your mind-candy rabbit hole (I love this stuff).
Speaking for myself, I dream. I can often remember in great detail my dreams.
One in particular is I am “back” living in the city I use to live in. I have an apartment. I have my “old” job. I often am riding my bike. I’ll shop, go to restaurants, have a money problem. I’ll see people in my dream; engage with co-workers. NOW the interesting part is, while in my “dream” I FORGET about “this” life I currently am living. I won’t remember my boys or that I don’t have to work outside the home or that I now live a rural lifestyle...
When I “wake” I am now engage with my boys, home and “others”.
Which, if any OR all, is “real”?
Does it even matter?
I mean “now” - does it matter? Do I have any “control” over any of the “layers”? )if such simulated layers even exist?)
Here’s another - when I wake to this reality, and leave my dreamworld, can I punish/reward myself? Can “others”?
Nope. So likewise - if as a “simulated” person responding to “set feedback from my environment” if I “awake” from it (how? by “dying”?) is there any reward/punishment and by who? And how can this even be established? All evidence within the simulation points to “game over” (my Skyrim character doesn’t “pop” into this reality when I turn off the game) and my personal dream experiences leave it as an experience (no real world/simulated control)...
Again, I don’t see where you are “going” with your OP and how this “effects” your worldview...
"I think we can all agree we do not need hoaxes in high school text books."
A sound argument for keeping the bible out of schools.
So what? Scientific theories satisfy the most stringent objective standards we have, your opinion means squat in comparison.
Scientific theories don't use improbable arguments, they are accepted based upon sufficient objective evidence, you don't seem to have even the most basic grasp of how science works. Though the irony of you citing objective scientific facts as improbable, given the fantasy that you're peddling doesn't have a shred of objective evidence to support it, is of course palpable.
Science doesn't perpetrate hoaxes, it exposes them, just how do you think we know these are hoaxes? Out of date text books in schoolrooms is an indictment of the education system, not science, you're talking utter nonsense.
Ffs will you proof read your verbiage, it is Piltdown man, and this hoax wasn't perpetrated by science,, it was exposed by science, and the fact it was a hoax doesn't discredit science or the scientific theory of evolution, again I've never read such paranoid rubbish..
What on earth are you blathering about, again this is risible unadulterated nonsense, if that is what you think palaeontology and archaeology involves then no wonder your crackpot fantasies are so detached from reality. What the fuck is confincing (sic) ffs, can you really expect to be taken seriously if you think convincing is spelled with an f?
Dear oh fucking dear...
Yes Sheldon, his "loose" grasp of science and it's history is rather lacking. For myself, it is not worth the bother in an exchange of ideas. I never pretend to be any kind of expert on the sciences, but the disparity between my knowledge base and his is rather large. I just hope he has fled to the high hills before Cali shows up.
One thing I've always wanted to ask the "simulation guys" is: do the laws of physics that apply in a simulation, also apply to the "real world" also?
For example: there is extremely good evidence that the speed of light in a vacuum in our world is a constant. If this is a simulation, is the speed of light in the world that is running that simulation a constant? If so: are the two constants the same?
Nobody can verify that a simulated universe, is representative of non-simulation existence...hence why nothing can be used from within a simulation to predict anything outside of the simulation. A simulation universe itself, may very well be naturally occurring, caused by a reality not bound by what "simulants" have concluded as physics.
Its also why slapping god within bostroms argument/hypothesis, is stupid...even bostrum knew this...hence his thought exercise disclaimer.
Why is this forum keep reordering posts it makes it hard to keep track of stuff.....any how, no physics would not nessicarily be the same, but as you would image running a simulation of 9 billion AI for 8000 years for example with the same physics/constants while you sleep could result possibly in very interesting and or lucrative opportunities......maybe they made something cool or did an experiment no one before ran that maybe you want rewind to and insert actual results from your universe and continue simulation.
It's a glitch in the Matrix.
Then I don't understand how we can make any deductions about it.
I agree we can't make any deductions, is there a flaw in aurgument you are trying to point out I am not seeing.
Well for starters: it seems you are making deductions, while paradoxically saying that you can't.
Other than it being full of deductions you've made, you mean?
Then there are the objective scientific facts you claim are implausible.
Then there's the complete dearth of objective evidence for any aspect of said argument.
Then there are the known logical fallacies you keep using.
I think that will do, to be going on...
"I agree we can't make any deductions, is there a flaw in aurgument you are trying to point out I am not seeing."
Yes, you are comparing the real world to an imaginary construct that may or may not exist. One can be examined and tested, the other, not.
@David - did you watch the Matrix movies? When the “simulated” people died in the “matrix” so did their attached bodies - eh...they never had the “knowledge” of their universe, even in death.
Oh, and what “good” did it do any of the “escapees” ... the movie was interesting but a “joke” when it comes to real life application.
Hmmm - mind you- if Kpg can somehow dodge bullets, “super man” jump, and move his karate chopping arms effortlessly fast ...well then, I may see some form of “real life application” to the mind-candy...
Is this a new forum the settings are all kinds of out of wack, when someone clicks reply it puts the reply near the original post ( might sound good but means you have to look at each page to look for new posts) any of you admins?
Kgp4life, you’re welcome to Review the posts concerning site construction that have been posted in the Site Support room.
Sure i can help....let me post and see if i can get an admin on the line to fix this up
It appears, kpg4life, that you did not read what I actually wrote.
I'm inclined to agree, but it's also possible he simply doesn't understand. Though this is a painful idea, it cannot be ruled out.
LOL. I love the arrogance of the religious...Its so funny.