Advice Needed From Atheists

11 posts / 0 new
Last post
NameRemovedByMod's picture
Advice Needed From Atheists

My friend is a christain. Not many can understand how we can be friends with our extreme difference in beliefs. We are like two lost people who have lost our families and have nobody else but each other. I am a male and she is a female, we are not a couple and never will be, just friends.

My dilemma is this. She has claimed that she had a heart attack when she was 17 and went to heaven. Her boyfriend at the time was trying to revive her on the beach and when he did she came back into her body.

Next she told me that she once took 75 pain pills to commit suicide and then she went to hell, but the lord took her out of hell and brought her back as she called out to him when she was falling to hell.

Of course I believe none of this and never will. I have expressed my disbelief and she get's offended and tells me that if I knew what she did I would be a christian as nobody could fathom the hell she was in!

My problem is how can you debate someone who claims to have had this personal experience?

Very frustrating to say the least.

Attachments

No

Subscription Note: 

Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.

Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.

CyberLN's picture
TLB, you asked, “Ho would you

TLB, you asked, “Ho would you debate someone who made these claims?”

I likely would not.

There’s no harm in just agreeing not to talk about certain things with her.

arakish's picture
And I concur with CyberLN. I

And I concur with CyberLN. I have a friend who is a devout Christian. We have had some very interesting discussions. However, we have both come to the agreement that our beliefs or lack of them are just that. We just don't discuss them anymore.

rmfr

algebe's picture
If these beliefs give her

If these beliefs give her comfort, and if she's not trying to impose them on you, there's no need to argue about them. Just listen. That's what friends do. They listen.

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." (Thomas Gray)

Nyarlathotep's picture
Clearly she was not of sound

Clearly she was not of sound mind and body before and during those experiences.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
You can't argue with

You can't argue with "personal experience" or the "I believe, that's all". Respect it and dont talk about it unless it is used as a weapon to berate or convert you. Then you can call bullshit and a personality disorder. Then lose a friend.

Best not to talk about it.

Tin-Man's picture
My younger brother has always

My younger brother has always been a devout Christian. But ever since he started having severe health problems a few years ago, his faith and devotion to his religion cranked up to much higher levels. We do not see each other very often, but I love and care about my little brother very much. And when it comes to our extremely polar beliefs, it has always been something of an unspoken mutual agreement that we never discuss our beliefs with each other. Why should we? He is still my little brother, and I will love him and care about him just the same, regardless.

Cognostic's picture
@thelargerbowl

@thelargerbowl
"Of course I believe none of this and never will. I have expressed my disbelief and she get's offended and tells me that if I knew what she did I would be a christian as nobody could fathom the hell she was in!"

She is correct and you are wrong.
Something happened to her and then she interpreted it. This is the Argument from personal experience. It makes no difference at all if you believe her interpretation,. You must believe what is real. "SHE HAD AN EXPERIENCE." "THERE IS NOTHING TO DEBATE regarding the experience."

1. How do you know your interpretation of the experience is correct? In the first case you have a brain starved of oxygen due to a heart attack and we know from experiments that such a brain will hallucinate. (I am not saying it was not god - and I want to believe you - so how do you know.)

2. In the second case you have completely altered your consciousness with drugs. Once again, I have to ask, how you know what you saw was in any way real. Lucid dreaming is a common effect of drug use. How do you know it was not just your mind making stuff up for you? I do not doubt that you had the experience. I only want to know how you know it is real and that it represents reality.

You can not win an argument from personal experience. I think it is real and that is enough for me. (END OF DISCUSSION). You can not tell another person that they feel, think, or experience things differently than they do. You do not DEBATE. You inquire.

Until something is stated that is measurable, observable, objective, you have no basis for any sort of debate. A personal experience is none of these. A personal interpretation of an experience might be one of these. It depends.

Dave Crisp's picture
Gonna agree with everyone

Gonna agree with everyone here that it's useless to talk about these bizarre claims.

However, I am going to take the road less traveled here and suggest that you should drop this friendship like a hot rock! Not because of her religion, but because she's clearly not right in the head.

- If she's lying about the heart attack and suicide attempt, then she'll lie to you about other things. So, if you don't believe her then why would you trust her enough to hang out?
- If she's telling the truth then she's already tried to kill herself once. You probably don't want to be the one to find her bleeding out in a bathtub the next time she tries it.
- At worst she's manipulative. At the very least, she has a fairly loose grip on reality. Either way, she's probably going to try to incorporate you into her little fantasy world somehow if you stick around. I don't imagine that this will be in your best interests...

My advice is to not deal with the drama and find yourself a normal, non-suicidal, relatively sane Christian friend to debate the finer points of godmongering with. Unless she's a friend with benefits. You can't beat sex with crazy chicks.

Clyde Goodman's picture
there is no way you can

there is no way you can debate one such person if I had a penny for every time a Christian,Muslim,and/or Jew claimed they saw something relating to their beliefs I would be carrying dime bags with me all the way to the bank I remember when I was 11 my art class teacher claimed that she witnessed miracles and I told her to prove to me that Jesus existed she could not prove it so there is one way you can show her that everything she said is rediculiuos ask her to prove that Jesus existed she will see how naive faith is when compared to the scientific method worked for me every time.

Attachments

Attach Image/Video?: 

Yes
Mutorc S'yriah's picture
the lergerbowl, I'd not

thelargerbowl, I'd not debate. My suggestion is several fold.

1. You can acknowledge that your friend did indeed have an experience;
2. The experience is personal and private to her;
3. Her interpretation of the experience is not the only one possible;
4. Her interpretation may be very important and significant to her;
5. She must have many Christians acquaintances who will support her version of what happened;
6. The fact of number 5. above will give her lots of support to NOT CHANGE her position;
7. You have an interpretation of what may have happened;
8. Your interpretation may be very important and significant to you;
9. Your interpretation is compatible with your own world view, and as such is rational;
10. You and your friend CAN agree to disagree;
11. Rudeness or name-calling etc. is unlikely to produce any good outcomes in your relationship;
12. Like they used to say during World War II, "Keep calm & Carry on".

Cheers,

Mutorc.

Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.